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Bill to protect special counsels such as Robert Mueller blocked on the Senate floor again

joko104 said:
Any such bill is grotesquely unconstitutional. The special prosecutor is out of an executive office and Congress has no constitutional jurisdiction to exercise any control of it, no more than the President could not order who anyone in Congress may or may not hire or fire.

It's just ultimately tantrum throwing bad loser Jeff Flake trying to stay relevant and attention whoring his last few weeks. From herein after he'll be on CNN and MSNBC for Democrats.

Guys like Flake are the ultimate back stabbing betrayers. Hundreds of Republican volunteers and thousands of Republican contributors backed him up for years. He now 100% pisses on those Republicans in every little tantrum he throws.
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:roll:

The president firing an investigator because that investigator is treating him equally before the law, is not right the president has the constitution.

That would be like me firing the cop that pulls me over.
 
poweRob said:
So trying to protect Mueller means Flake is "Back-stabbing" all Republicans?
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To be honest, the bill was never really about actually protecting Mueller. It was to force Republicans to kill it, which can then be used against them. Yes, only one Senator blocked it, but the Republican party as a whole will be on record.
 
poweRob said:
Senator Lee. Complicit traitor.

Bill to protect special counsels such as Robert Mueller blocked on the Senate floor again

A bill that would protect special counsels such as Robert Mueller was once again not allowed a vote on the Senate floor Wednesday.

Republican Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona and Democratic Sens. Chris Coons of Delaware and Cory Booker of New Jersey attempted to force the vote by unanimous consent, but that meant it could be blocked by just one senator, as Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah did Wednesday.​
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I actually haven't been paying attention to that bill because there's no chance it's going to pass anytime soon, but I hope it tries to give judicial review to an AG's (or president's) decision to fire a special counsel.

If oversight is given to an agency other than the DOJ, it's not going to avoid the problem because the president can find another toadie. But if they give judicial review - and I don't know exactly what form I'd suggest, but I'd tie it to something like "probable cause to believe a crime may have been committed" - then the President is pretty much not going to be able to fire AGs until one gets rid of a special counsel previously appointed unless it really is a spurious investigation, in which case the Court will say there's no probable cause, if that's the standard. If that makes it too hard, well, preponderance. I dunno.

The main point would obviously be to protect any special counsel that can convince the court (under seal if necessary) that there is a good enough reason to keep digging.




I'd have hoped that even if the GOP doesn't want to do this out of self-interest, they'd do it to prevent a future D president with a strong D congress from doing what Trump wants to do.
 
poweRob said:
Senator Lee. Complicit traitor.

Bill to protect special counsels such as Robert Mueller blocked on the Senate floor again

A bill that would protect special counsels such as Robert Mueller was once again not allowed a vote on the Senate floor Wednesday.

Republican Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona and Democratic Sens. Chris Coons of Delaware and Cory Booker of New Jersey attempted to force the vote by unanimous consent, but that meant it could be blocked by just one senator, as Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah did Wednesday.​
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They should all vote for it, and let him veto the bill, because they'll never get enough votes in the House to override the veto. And, even if they did, the law would be deemed unconstitutional based on SCOTUS precedence: Myers v. United States

Please don't think I'm saying that he should fire Mueller. I think it would be political suicide if he did. But, legally - Constitutionally, he can, and the Congress can't stop him from doing it. Not according to Myers v. United States.
 
Beaudreaux said:
They should all vote for it, and let him veto the bill, because they'll never get enough votes in the House to override the veto. And, even if they did, the law would be deemed unconstitutional based on SCOTUS precedence: Myers v. United States

Please don't think I'm saying that he should fire Mueller. I think it would be political suicide if he did. But, legally - Constitutionally, he can, and the Congress can't stop him from doing it. Not according to Myers v. United States.
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Any other President would’ve been dead and buried at this point!
 
Such a waste of time.

Trump isn't going to fire Mueller. He knows it'd be political suicide on par with Nixon and the Saturday Night Massacre.
Besides....Mueller is nearing the end of his little fishing expedition.
 
Roadvirus said:
Such a waste of time.

Trump isn't going to fire Mueller. He knows it'd be political suicide on par with Nixon and the Saturday Night Massacre.
Besides....Mueller is nearing the end of his little fishing expedition.
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His people are telling him that. I don't know that he believes it and these days I'm not sure at all about whether it would be political suicide.

Take a look at the way the GOP responds to accusations against GOPers: it's always a "hoax", by nefarious liars, carrying out their leftist schemes.



I have a sinking feeling that if Trump fired Mueller, he'd still be defended. They've all been calling the investigation a witch hunt from the beginning, and if they believe that why would they object to firing the Witchfinder General?
 
poweRob said:
Senator Lee. Complicit traitor.

Bill to protect special counsels such as Robert Mueller blocked on the Senate floor again

A bill that would protect special counsels such as Robert Mueller was once again not allowed a vote on the Senate floor Wednesday.

Republican Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona and Democratic Sens. Chris Coons of Delaware and Cory Booker of New Jersey attempted to force the vote by unanimous consent, but that meant it could be blocked by just one senator, as Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah did Wednesday.​
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Good for him it is unconstitutional anyway.

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trouble13 said:
Mueller does not need protection and should not be given immunity from being fired if he starts to abuse his position

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Starts to?

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tres borrachos said:
It never ceases to amaze me how Trump devotees blatantly lie about the voting record of elected officials.

Flake was a Republican his entire life and always voted as one. Trump became a Republican when he realized he would have a good chance of duping Republicans into voting for him.
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And so far has passed the most conservative agenda since Reagan....Flake at one time might have been tangentially with repubs, not so much as of late....explains why you defend him.

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akyron said:
Muellers appointment was fundamentally unconstitutional as we now know it was based on false "evidence".
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Comey's firing to stymie the Russia investigation was cause enough to appoint Mueller. It was probable cause for an obstruction of justice investigation.

If that is sufficient, then consider the mere number of relationships between senior members of the Trump campaign and Russia, who had interfered in the 2016 election leading to the election of what appeared to have been a big underdog, was sufficient to warrant an investigation in and of itself./

Donald Trump'''s Many, Many, Many, Many Ties to Russia | Time
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...ies-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-contacts-idUSKCN18E106
What we know so far about contacts between Trump campaign and Russia | CBC News
Donald Trump's ties to Russia explained
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

Sorry, there was probable cause out the wazoo. It would have been a dereliction of duty to gross negligence NOT to have investigated this. BTW, here is Mueller's charter.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download
 
Mr Person said:
His people are telling him that. I don't know that he believes it
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If he didn't believe it'd be suicide, he would've canned him by now.

His verbal/cyber fireballs at Mueller are just for show.
In private, he's reluctantly (with lots of grumbling) accepted Mueller's position as The Russian Hunter.
In public, he's playing to his base by calling Mueller and this whole charade out.
 
Rexedgar said:
.....because they are so overworked “seeing to the people’s business.” Politicians haven’t hit an honest lick since the 1950’s or 1960’s.
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They got Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh confirmed :mrgreen:
 
poweRob said:
So trying to protect Mueller means Flake is "Back-stabbing" all Republicans?
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Nah, he's a douche bag anyway. Plus the bill is unconstitutional and, DUH, TRUMP WOULD HAVE TO SIGN IT. Could a bill be any more wrong than this one?
 
upsideguy said:
Comey's firing to stymie the Russia investigation was cause enough to appoint Mueller. It was probable cause for an obstruction of justice
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Ok, so what exactly was obstructed by Comey being fired? As far as I could see, the investigation continued.

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j-mac said:
Ok, so what exactly was obstructed by Comey being fired? As far as I could see, the investigation continued.

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You don't have to be successful in the obstruction to be guilty of obstruction. It is a crime of intent.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf

But Trump's comments in the Oval Office to Kislyak and his comments to Lester Holt on NBC were self-incriminating, sufficient at least to be probable cause for an investigation (hence the appointment of Mueller).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/11/donald-trump-james-comey-firing-russia-investigation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...igation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b6c2643d9cb0

Trump's actions since May 2017 only serve to reinforce the legitimacy of an investigation of obstruction of justice, as does the fact that most Americans think Trump has committed crimes or impeachable offenses.

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...ority-think-mueller-will-find-trump-committed
 
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upsideguy said:
You don't have to be successful in the obstruction to be guilty of obstruction.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf

But Trump's comments in the Oval Office to Kislyak and his comments to Lester Holt on NBC were self-incriminating, sufficient at least to be probable cause for an investigation (hence the appointment of Mueller).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/11/donald-trump-james-comey-firing-russia-investigation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...igation/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b6c2643d9cb0

Trump's actions since May 2017 only serve to reinforce the legitimacy of an investigation of obstruction of justice, as does the fact that most Americans think Trump has committed crimes or impeachable offenses.

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...ority-think-mueller-will-find-trump-committed
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They pull this weasel move all the time. My usual reply is along the lines of "Murder is a crime. So is attempted murder".
 
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