Beyond L and G?

[calamity]

Two entirely separate issues?

I see the "issue" as a freak using trans as a convenient excuse/cover story. We obviously disagree.

 

[tessaesque]

I went through this already with Sangha. Please see Post #8 for my initial reply.

If the initial reply had been any less idiotic I'd have quote that. I figured I'd just go with the most outrageous of the two.

 

[tessaesque]

I see it as a freak using trans as a convenient excuse/cover story. We obviously disagree.

Yes, because one of us has an ill-supported, hate-based bias against a specific community they've chosen not to understand in order to maintain the ignorance which supports their bigotry.

 

[CanadaJohn]

I posted this in the group Rainbow Friends, but I wanted to get more feedback from the larger DP community.



Currently in mainstream society there is much attention focused on LGBT rights, yet the main voices that are being heard are that of the L and the G part of the community with the emphasis being on same sex marriage and there being no emphasis on bisexual or transgender rights. Personally, I think this is quite problematic as while SSM is definitely important, the rates of attacks on trans* people is extremely high, especially when one is a transwoman of color. There is also the problem of intimate partner violence among bisexuals. While this may get a lot of attention online, it really doesn't get much, if any play, in the mainstream media and thus most people don't really know the problems that are facing bisexuals and trans* people. It seems that in the mainstream, the only thing people connect to when they hear LGBT is gay marriage. Is there a way go beyond the L and G in LGBT?

I can't speak for other people, but from my view a big part of the problem is simply a lack of respect for life and other people's right simply to live their lives unassailed by others in the community. It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight, male or female, old or young, black or white, there are people in our society who just have no respect for you and your right to be. A lot of it has to do with being "different" and how some people aren't capable of accepting difference as also being beautiful and to be respected and cherished. It all comes down to parenting, in my view, and the guidance mom and dad give their children as they're growing up. I know it sounds idealistic, but it's the only truth I know, and the only way to develop a society respectful of all it's varied parts.

 

[sangha]

He's a child molester who now says he is trans. What do you see that as?

I see it as a criminal trying to get out of a sticky situation and FAILING

Let's go back to the post you wrote that I originally responded to:

IMO, self-identifying "transpeople" are problematic. For instance, we all know and accept, respecting the plight of the harmless ultra-femme who just wants to be a girl, but few of us are willing to admit that there also exists this:

(snip)
The twisted, dangerous male psychopath who thinks he should be a woman and will stop at nothing to pursue his delusions.

For this and other reasons, I hesitate to accept trans as I do gays.

You claimed that your problem was with "self-indentified trans" who are really "twisted, dangerous male psychopath who thinks he should be a woman and will stop at nothing to pursue his delusions"

And your example is a male who does *not* think he should be a woman!! Instead, it's a pedophile who dressed up as a woman and went into a womans rest room.

So even if there were no such thing as transgenderism or transvestites, a pedophile would still be able to dress up as a woman and sneak into a womans rest room. So how does this make "self-identified trans" "problematic"?

So lets review:

A pedophile dresses up as a woman and goes into a womans rest room. A woman calls the police on him, and he's arrested. He claims that he's a trans, but he's arrested and convicted anyway.

And this shows there's a problem with "self indentified trans"......because???

 

[sangha]

I see the "issue" as a freak using trans as a convenient excuse/cover story. We obviously disagree.

You originally said the problem was with "self-identified trans"

So how does a non-trans pedophile demonstrate that "self-identified trans" are "problematic"?

 

[idk]

IMO, self-identifying "transpeople" are problematic. For instance, we all know and accept, respecting the plight of the harmless ultra-femme who just wants to be a girl, but few of us are willing to admit that there also exists this:

The twisted, dangerous male psychopath who thinks he should be a woman and will stop at nothing to pursue his delusions.

For this and other reasons, I hesitate to accept trans as I do gays. Color me biased on this, but I side with a subset of the feminists on this one.
Feminists versus transsexuals: Julie Burchill, Suzanne Moore and The Observer spark civil war on the Left – Telegraph Blogs

I'll go one step further and color you bigoted, comparing M to F trans people to Buffalo Bill. You're welcome!

My girlfriend is queer, I've made a number of friends in the LGBTQ community, including quite a few trans people. Hanging out and working with them on a regular basis really opens you up to the biases they face on a daily basis, particularly if they are in the middle of a transition, or their transition left them with many noticeable traits from their previous biological gender. However, I have noticed a significant positive trend regarding social acceptance of sexual and gender freedom in the last 10 or 15 years. I feel at the very least we are on the right track.

 

[idk]

It was the easiest way to make the point. Here's a real-life criminal psycho playing the "transgender game".

Transgender woman on parole for child sex assault | khou.com Houston

Here's a real life heterosexual pyschopath to demonstrate my point:



My point being this, heterosexual men like myself are responsible for most violent crimes, including several of the most horrendous sexual criminal acts in history. We should all be locked up.

 

[sangha]

Here's a real life heterosexual pyschopath to demonstrate my point:

View attachment 67145035

My point being this, heterosexual men like myself are responsible for most violent crimes, including several of the most horrendous sexual criminal acts in history. We should all be locked up.

It is true that "self-identified" heterosexuals commit the vast majority of all violent crimes

I wonder if that makes calamity consider self-identified heteros to be "problematic"?

 

[digsbe]

I think the lesbians and gays tend to be far more vocal than trans people or bisexuals. They are the most vocal so they get the most attention.

 

[calamity]

Yes, because one of us has an ill-supported, hate-based bias against a specific community they've chosen not to understand in order to maintain the ignorance which supports their bigotry.

Call it what you will. Mr Witherspoon is a criminal freak. He's as much transgendered as I am.

 

[calamity]

Here's a real life heterosexual pyschopath to demonstrate my point:

View attachment 67145035

My point being this, heterosexual men like myself are responsible for most violent crimes, including several of the most horrendous sexual criminal acts in history. We should all be locked up.

Where did I say all transgendered people should be locked up?

Oh. That's right. I didn't.

My first post on this subject was very clear: there are the truly transgendered and then there are psychopaths in dresses. It's stupid to ignore the later while championing the former.

Tough, if you don't like it.

 

[calamity]

I'll go one step further and color you bigoted, comparing M to F trans people to Buffalo Bill. You're welcome!

My girlfriend is queer, I've made a number of friends in the LGBTQ community, including quite a few trans people. Hanging out and working with them on a regular basis really opens you up to the biases they face on a daily basis, particularly if they are in the middle of a transition, or their transition left them with many noticeable traits from their previous biological gender. However, I have noticed a significant positive trend regarding social acceptance of sexual and gender freedom in the last 10 or 15 years. I feel at the very least we are on the right track.

What. You don't think I've been exposed to LGBT? Sheesh.

Trans people are cool by me. I only have problem with the nutcases who also claim to be trans, like guys in dresses trying to crash women's only camps, for example, or guys with dicks giving lesbians a hard time for not accepting them as women--including lesbians refusing to have sex with them, calling it the "cotton ceiling". Sometimes absurd is absurd.

 

[calamity]

You originally said the problem was with "self-identified trans"

So how does a non-trans pedophile demonstrate that "self-identified trans" are "problematic"?

He "self-identifies" as trans. You'd know that if you bothered to read the article I linked.

 

[calamity]

Here's the argument I see as absurd: "Let's let everyone self-identify. Damn the evidence, damn the consequences. Since Tom says he's a girl, let's let him use women's facilities and attend women's events. The hell with what women may think about that."

 

[CLAX1911]

I am not pointing at Trans. I am pointing to a clearly deranged individual hiding under the trans label. There is a big difference.

Deranged as your example is, he may in fact still be Trans. It may be a coincidence, it may be a cover story. We do not know, we can't make claims either way. Just like some murderers are Christian, that doesn't mean all murderers are Christian.

All this proves is that Trans people are people too.

 

[chromium]

As a bisexual man, most of the bigotry I received is from gay men. Very little, in fact the only bigotry I received from heterosexuals was on this website.

Yeah, you'd think there'd be less of that. I've also heard a stupefying amount of prejudice from gays directed toward each other, you know putting down bears or bottoms.

The only conclusion is that many or most humans seemingly can't help themselves from being judgmental, even when they share an oppression. It's asinine and counter-productive. The way to deal with this, at least the way I've chosen to, is to not bother associating with haters regardless of their orientation.

 

[sangha]

He "self-identifies" as trans. You'd know that if you bothered to read the article I linked.

You did not say you have a problem with heteros or pedophiles who self identify as trans. Here's what you said

IMO, self-identifying "transpeople" are problematic

You then used a non-trans to describe why you have a problem with trans people. You even went further, and used a non-trans person to justify this biased statement of yours:

For this and other reasons, I hesitate to accept trans as I do gays.

Why does the actions of a hetero cause you to not accept trans?

If a gay man were to commit a crime and claim that he's straight, would you then say that "self-identified heteros are problematic"?

 

[sangha]

Here's the argument I see as absurd: "Let's let everyone self-identify. Damn the evidence, damn the consequences. Since Tom says he's a girl, let's let him use women's facilities and attend women's events. The hell with what women may think about that."

You are writing fiction. There are strict criteria used to judge whether someone is transgendered, as the case *you* cited

In *your* example, no one said "damn the evidence, damn the consequences". Instead, the facts show that they used the evidence and convicted the bastard.

You're creating fiction to justify your bigoted hesitation to "accept trans"

 

[calamity]

Deranged as your example is, he may in fact still be Trans. It may be a coincidence, it may be a cover story. We do not know, we can't make claims either way. Just like some murderers are Christian, that doesn't mean all murderers are Christian.

All this proves is that Trans people are people too.

Or he's not trans at all, but thi is he is because he's nuts and, worse, dangerous.

 

[calamity]

You are writing fiction. There are strict criteria used to judge whether someone is transgendered, as the case *you* cited

In *your* example, no one said "damn the evidence, damn the consequences". Instead, the facts show that they used the evidence and convicted the bastard.

You're creating fiction to justify your bigoted hesitation to "accept trans"

There is a small misunderstanding. Two matters are at issue here involving the same dude. One: he is a convicted pedophile. Two: he was reported by two women for using the female restroom. As a self-identifying trans he has a "doctor's" note allowing him to use that bathroom. This is the issue.

And on that, I guess, I stand with cis-women, like Rosanne Barr, and other feminists who are opposed to that.
Some Transgender People Owe Roseanne Barr an Apology | Montreal Gazette

I have said this before: there are many born-females out there who are concerned, even afraid, of the idea of pre-op or non-op trans people using the women’s washrooms. Trans people need to reach out with kindness to them, discuss the issues, offer reassurances — not attack them with vile, sexist words. That only confirms their fears, and comes across like they are being attacked . . . by people with penises.

I think . . . I know that Roseanne Barr is not against trans people. She supports them. Here is what she says on her blog:

“I’m for health coverage for trans ops and sexual reassignment surgery from age 8-in other words, I am MORE supportive of Transwomen and Transmen than the Peace and Freedom party’s own platform. I can’t accept that ANY kind of hatred should be excused anywhere.”

 

[CLAX1911]

Or he's not trans at all, but thi is he is because he's nuts and, worse, dangerous.

So, being Trans whether you lie about it or not is no excuse to coming crimes.

I don't see how his fake Trans status makes him leads guilty.

 

[calamity]

You did not say you have a problem with heteros or pedophiles who self identify as trans. Here's what you said



You then used a non-trans to describe why you have a problem with trans people. You even went further, and used a non-trans person to justify this biased statement of yours:



Why does the actions of a hetero cause you to not accept trans?

If a gay man were to commit a crime and claim that he's straight, would you then say that "self-identified heteros are problematic"?

I see the problem. I did not express myself well. I have no problem with trans people self-identifying. However, I see people with penises self-identifying as trans without anything backing that up but their word as problematic.

I hope that clarifies the issue a little.

 

[calamity]

So, being Trans whether you lie about it or not is no excuse to coming crimes.

I don't see how his fake Trans status makes him leads guilty.

I never said it did. I pointed to him because he is probably dangerous.

 

[sangha]

There is a small misunderstanding. Two matters are at issue here involving the same dude. One: he is a convicted pedophile. Two: he was reported by two women for using the female restroom. As a self-identifying trans he has a "doctor's" note allowing him to use that bathroom. This is the issue.

And on that, I guess, I stand with cis-women, like Rosanne Barr, and other feminists who are opposed to that.
Some Transgender People Owe Roseanne Barr an Apology | Montreal Gazette

None of that explains why the actions of a pedophile make you hesitant to accept trans or why you see trans as "problematic"

BTW, they are not "transpeople"; They are "people"

They just happen to be transgendered