Ban on ‘Excessive’ Gas Prices Heading for House Vote

[TU Curmudgeon]

I don’t think we can wait for the Republicans to get back in control. We need to end all regulation and force companies to dig and process oil here in the US. Open up the Keystone pipeline. Sorry folks, we are just gonna have to deal with dirty air. People can’t afford gas. This economy is gonna shut down.

Did you know that the "Keystone Pipeline" was not intended to transport American oil to the American market?

Did you know that the "Keystone Pipeline" was not intended to transport ANY oil to the American market?

Better yet, lets take over OPEC. It’s time to flex our muscle.

<SARC>It's always nice to see people advocating using the US military to impose colonial rule on the lesser races.</SARC>

BTW, would you like to give me a rough outline of how the US is going to conquer and then garrison countries with a total population of around 483,630,000? Just to help you get started, the rough, general, rule of thumb is that you require 1 soldier per 40 people of the occupied country in order to maintain control. That would mean that the US Army would have to be around 12,090,750 just to provide the garrison force. That garrison force would, of course, not be available for the other things that the US Army does, so a more realistic figure for the total size of the US Army would be 13,000,000. That would mean that the US defence budget would have to be around 10 times larger than it currently is. That means that the US defence budget would be around 104% of the current TOTAL US budget. That means that, if you intended to maintain all of the remainder of the US budget items, the US budget would have to be (roughly) twice as large as it is now.

<SARC>That increase in government revenue would, pursuant to standard Republican Party practice, come from the economic stimulus caused by the trickle down effect of tax cuts on the rich.</SARC>

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I’m talking about oil regulations.,The other things you mentioned need to be dealt with common sense.

Ahhhh, I see the old "All regulations that I don't like are bad (regardless of what they do or what anyone else thinks) and have to be eliminated - BUT - all regulations that I do like are good (regardless of what they do or what anyone else thinks) and have to be enforced even more stringently." philosophy.

 

[bave]

Ahhhh, I see the old "All regulations that I don't like are bad (regardless of what they do or what anyone else thinks) and have to be eliminated - BUT - all regulations that I do like are good (regardless of what they do or what anyone else thinks) and have to be enforced even more stringently." philosophy.

You realize alot of these sorts of things happened in the 70's right? Gas prices shot up, the feds stepped in to artificially cap prices, and a shortage ensued.

 

[bave]

Did you know that the "Keystone Pipeline" was not intended to transport American oil to the American market?

Did you know that the "Keystone Pipeline" was not intended to transport ANY oil to the American market?

Why would anyone think Keystone was intended to move American produced oil? It was clearly designed to be bitumen from Alberta into the US network.

How do you figure it wasn't moving any oil into the American market? It was going to be linked into the larger oil distribution network in Nebraska and then moved throughout the US distribution chain to refineries, particularly in the Gulf Coast where the refineries are geared to process that mix.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You realize alot of these sorts of things happened in the 70's right? Gas prices shot up, the feds stepped in to artificially cap prices, and a shortage ensued.

Yep, the oil companies CHOOSE to reduce production, thereby creating a shortage, thus causing a demand for the government to take the price caps off (and pushing for a change in ruling party to one that was more "oil company friendly".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Why would anyone think Keystone was intended to move American produced oil? It was clearly designed to be bitumen from Alberta into the US network.

The person I responded to sure appeared to think that it had something to do with "American oil" and "the American oil distribution network" and it had neither. The Keystone Pipeline was intended solely to provide oil that the US oil companies could purchase at below the world market price (due to the restrictions in NAFTA 2.0) then export it from the US and sell it at the world oil price.

How do you figure it wasn't moving any oil into the American market? It was going to be linked into the larger oil distribution network in Nebraska and then moved throughout the US distribution chain to refineries, particularly in the Gulf Coast where the refineries are geared to process that mix.

See above.

 

[bave]

Yep, the oil companies CHOOSE to reduce production, thereby creating a shortage, thus causing a demand for the government to take the price caps off (and pushing for a change in ruling party to one that was more "oil company friendly".

Haha, that is so hilarious incorrect it is amazing.

The shortage was caused by an oil embargo from OPEC because of US support for Israel. Jesus, read a book.

The person I responded to sure appeared to think that it had something to do with "American oil" and "the American oil distribution network" and it had neither. The Keystone Pipeline was intended solely to provide oil that the US oil companies could purchase at below the world market price (due to the restrictions in NAFTA 2.0) then export it from the US and sell it at the world oil price.

See above.

Actually, the bitumen was likely just going to be refined at the three major US refineries capable of handing such heavy sour inputs. It sells below market price because it is the crappiest oil on the planet, right next to Venezuelan garbage.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Haha, that is so hilarious incorrect it is amazing.

The shortage was caused by an oil embargo from OPEC because of US support for Israel. Jesus, read a book.

I see, so the shortage was caused because the oil companies didn't have enough raw material (which happened before the price controls) and NOT because of the price controls - which came after the shortage.

Right?

PS - Did you remember that the REAL cause of the embargo was President Nixon taking the US off the "Gold Standard", thus massively decreasing the profits of the OPEC countries?

PPS - You do realize that the "OPEC Oil Embargo" lasted from October 73 to March 74, and that prices never went back down to the pre-embargo levels, don't you?

​

Actually, the bitumen was likely just going to be refined at the three major US refineries capable of handing such heavy sour inputs. It sells below market price because it is the crappiest oil on the planet, right next to Venezuelan garbage.

The Alberta Oil Sands oil sells into the market for oil of that quality and not into the market for the highest possible quality oil. That means that the "market price" for that oil is the "market price" for that quality of oil and NOT the market price for some other quality of oil.

Your "analogy" is that "Chevies sell below the market price for cars because the BMW purchasers don't want to buy them for the same price as BMWs.".

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Oh really mining for lithium....car batteries

View attachment 67392134

How many of those are there vs the number of coal mines of equal environmental destruction? For every lithium mine like that, there are dozens if not hundreds of coal mines.

 

[rhinefire]

I don't fill up now because thieves can siphon my tank and I'm out over $100.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I don't fill up now because thieves can siphon my tank and I'm out over $100.

One of these



will run you around $20.​

 

[Volunteer]

Why do you think companies profiting is a problem?

Unregulated profits of essential goods seems to hurt poor folks.

Or that gas and oil is not sustainable?

Unregulated pollution from carbon fuels is poisoning/killing humans and the natural world.

And what about all the things made with petroleum?

Limit the use of petroleum for useful things and not wastefully burning it for transportation and electricity production which can be achieved by simpler, cleaner, and sustainable technologies.

 

[jonny5]

Unregulated profits of essential goods seems to hurt poor folks.

Unregulated pollution from carbon fuels is poisoning/killing humans and the natural world.

Limit the use of petroleum for useful things and not wastefully burning it for transportation and electricity production which can be achieved by simpler, cleaner, and sustainable technologies.

No one is suggesting unregulated. Profit of essential goods doesnt hurt poor folks, just the opposite, their standard of living is exponentially improved. And you say wasteful, but again, the benefit cant be understated. The entire modern world is a product of oil consumption, and it simply cant be replaced by 'clean' (oil IS simple and sustainable). How are planes going to fly on electricity? How are trucks going to truck cross country? How are you going to replace diesel trains and massive ships?

 

[grip]

I love how people use the phrase "price gouging" without any understanding whatsoever of what it actually means.

Excessive pricing?

 

[bave]

Excessive pricing?

How it excessive when it is the going *GLOBAL* market rate? It is a globally traded, incredibly transparent, liquid marketplace. There is no such thing as excessive in that environment.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Excessive pricing?

Based on what standard?

 

[Roadvirus]

Dem’s anti-price gouging bills are ‘pretty gimmicky,’ likely won’t bring down inflation: former Obama adviser

Former economic advisor to the Obama administration Jason Furman criticized anti-price gouging bills being pushed by Democrats in Congress as “pretty gimmicky,” saying they likely won't impact consumers feeling the squeeze from high inflation.

www.foxnews.com

A former Obama economic advisor is saying this was stupid.

 

[Superfly]

Ban on ‘Excessive’ Gas Prices Heading for House Vote | Transport Topics

The U.S. president would have the authority to declare an emergency that would make the sale of gasoline at “excessive” prices illegal under legislation House Democrats plan to bring to the floor next week.

www.ttnews.com

When this fails, next comes price controls and pretty soon you will be waiting in line for 4 hours to buy gas at a "fair" price.


View attachment 67390501

So you people are complaining at the pump that this is Biden’s fault (it’s not) and when he tries to do something, you complain about that, too.

 

[Bear5131]

I love how people use the phrase "price gouging" without any understanding whatsoever of what it actually means.

Not that hard to understand, a pack of cigarettes is in say Greenville South Carolina @ $5.00 bucks a pack and in New York city the same pack is $12 bucks a pack

Gasoline is say in Kansas city $4 bucks a gallon in some gas stations in Los Angeles gasoline is $6 bucks a gallon

 

[HangLow]

So you people are complaining at the pump that this is Biden’s fault (it’s not) and when he tries to do something, you complain about that, too.

​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Based on what standard?

Based on the "How much profit can we screw out of the American people?" standard.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Not that hard to understand, a pack of cigarettes is in say Greenville South Carolina @ $5.00 bucks a pack and in New York city the same pack is $12 bucks a pack

Gasoline is say in Kansas city $4 bucks a gallon in some gas stations in Los Angeles gasoline is $6 bucks a gallon

It's my impression, and I'm more than happy to be corrected on this point, but "gas taxes" are generally assessed as "$X.xx/gallon" and NOT as "X% of retail per gallon".

If that is the situation (and it is where I live), the government tax revenue on gasoline is the same (per gallon) REGARDLESS of what the price of gasoline is.

That would mean that, taxing California as an example, the state would receive

• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $1.00/gal (or, roughly 51.10%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $2.00/gal (or, roughly 25.55%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $3.00/gal (or, roughly 17.03%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $4.00/gal (or, roughly 12.78%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $5.00/gal (or, roughly 10.22%); and
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $6.00/gal (or, roughly 8.52%);

so that means that the effect of the state gas tax LESSENS as the price of gasoline increases.

 

[Bear5131]

It's my impression, and I'm more than happy to be corrected on this point, but "gas taxes" are generally assessed as "$X.xx/gallon" and NOT as "X% of retail per gallon".

If that is the situation (and it is where I live), the government tax revenue on gasoline is the same (per gallon) REGARDLESS of what the price of gasoline is.

That would mean that, taxing California as an example, the state would receive

• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $1.00/gal (or, roughly 51.10%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $2.00/gal (or, roughly 25.55%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $3.00/gal (or, roughly 17.03%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $4.00/gal (or, roughly 12.78%);
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $5.00/gal (or, roughly 10.22%); and
• $0.511 for every gallon of gasoline that is sold at $6.00/gal (or, roughly 8.52%);

so that means that the effect of the state gas tax LESSENS as the price of gasoline increases.

Sure run with it

 

[post]

1. Oil is a global market, which is why Biden went to OPEC and Venezuela to beg them to increase production. Loss of supply from eastern europe does indeed impact prices in the U.S., as rising demand for tea in Britain impacted India in centuries past.

2. From your own link: over-all U.S. oil production is still running far below its pre-pandemic level. In February, 2020, U.S. oil fields generated around thirteen million barrels of crude a day; last month, they produced less than 11.9 million barrels a day.




In fact it is, coming off of having dipped to a 25 year low in 2020. From the US Energy Information Administration:

...Demand has grown faster than supply, reducing inventories and contributing to higher prices for crude oil and petroleum products....​

This is a foolish and emotive argument which wants to attribute things we don't like to people we don't like. The Crops Failed Because The Nobility Didn't Honor The Gods. Oil Prices Are High Because CEO's Are Greedy. The Plague Came Because The Jews Won't Accept Christ.

By the by...

Can any if you progressive whiners - whose mindnumbingly stupid policies created all this mess - can any of you cite the clause in the Constitution that permits the FedGov to set and regulate prices??

Gents, I'm having difficulty understanding either of your seemingly partisan POVs. Considering the following, well supported in my post
here, at what point did what Biden's admin. did or didn't do, did the details of conditions before January 20, 2021, become situations
Biden could have done something to lower current pricing, but you believe he didn't do?

People in counties that back Trump were twice as likely to have died from covid.

Nope facts,not my fault you can't handle facts You believe and post ignorance constantly all see this

debatepolitics.com

In months before before Feb. 20, 2020 pandemic conditions began, drilling in U.S. had dropped 10% amid lesser world decline...

Trump admin. appears to have done nothing to preserve crude output potential or refining capacity,
The current and recent problem is Russia refined product was the means to replace pandemic effect decline of U.S. refining capacity,
40 U.S. petroleum producers had filed for bankruptcy by late 2020, idled refineries predicted to only future use as terminals.
No fed. gov. initiative for emergency buildup of storage capacity in contradiction of Trump commitment for rapid restoration of economic
activity.
Biden ended Trump sabotage of new 2025 vehicle fuel economy standard lowered by Trump in April, 2020 from 54 mpg to 40 mpg
along with Trump lawsuit to eliminate state of California authority to set in state fuel economy standard vehicle manufacturers tended to
implement nationally. Trump Admin. false claim was less fuel efficient and ensuing additional air pollution benefitted vehicle buyers more
than not changing existing reg. scheme.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Based on the "How much profit can we screw out of the American people?" standard.

OK, but aren’t gasoline prices also high in Canada and Europe?