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Bail Fail Stories

Mr Person said:
These threads never construct the actual argument. It's all left to implication based on the anecdote.

The anecdote is always "I found this one instance in which someone got bail and then went a'criming" If that's all you offer, you necessarily leave your principals dialed to 11. The direct implication is that people who were arrested for the original crime or something like it should not have had the option of posting bail.

That would not be a mere repudiation of bail reform. It'd be an expansion of what we had!

One of the most grotesque problems with bail is in relation to our leading the world in incarceration rate. There's no room in court or in jail. Cases take a while. We deliberately underfund the courts, then underfund public defense even harder. "Underfund" isn't the right word. So what are you going to do as a poor guy who's holding onto his job for dear life, is living behind-bills to behind-bills, etc?

A lot of people might say "I'd stay and fight! On principle!" They're probably thinking of their assets, and fact that they won't have to ever prove it because they'll be able to post bail. Let's be honest. Unless you actually have completely and utterly ruined yourself in a bet for freedom and you lived it until you clawed out, you have no idea what you'd do. And you wouldn't. Choice:

- Cop to misdemeanor (say, resisting arrest, maybe disorderly, or maybe a minor drug charge) and get out so you can maybe try to keep your job, while making sure you have your belongings, apartment, GFs/fiances/wives, etc.
- Demand your right to a speedy trial and wait for six months. Or a year. Or whatever. Because all sorts of actions by a defendant toll the speedy trial requirement, and the government also has a number of ways to force defendants into a position where they'll do one of those things if they wouldn't anyway.




But things are scary. It's easier to attack bail on a bet that it won't happen to you or your own. If you're of means, you're going to be able to post bail in all but the most gruesome cases filed against rich people. It's only those people who plead despite innocence so they can keep at least a little bit of their lives.
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Excellent post.

The only thing I disagree with is that these things are "scary."

They're not.

Every Western nation state has devolved into a nanny state and it's getting perpetually worse.

Everyone deserves bail.

Law enforcement in The West is for cowards.
 
Hamish Howl said:
So is the OP arguing that there should be no bail/bond options? Just sit in a jail for a year or so until your trial?
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Having LEOs act as judge, jury and executioner is far more cost effective I guess.

People who bitch about crime in The West are unilateral ******s.
 
JetBlue said:
Having LEOs act as judge, jury and executioner is far more cost effective I guess.

People who bitch about crime in The West are unilateral ******s.
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So law abiding citizens and victims of crime shouldn't "bitch" about crime? What?! Should we celebrate it instead? I don't understand your point. Are you trying to say that we should just feel lucky that we live in a first-world country and that "some crime" is just a small nuisance to our lavish life?
 
Hamish Howl said:
So is the OP arguing that there should be no bail/bond options? Just sit in a jail for a year or so until your trial?
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People accused of specific violent crimes, or those who have prior convictions for violent crimes should not be granted bail IMHO
 
Helix said:
Can you figure it out from the context clues?
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Oh I know what you were alluding to, I just wanted to see if you would just come out and say it.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
People accused of specific violent crimes, or those who have prior convictions for violent crimes should not be granted bail IMHO
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So any political figure or police figure with an axe to grind can more or less lock you up indefinitely.

Sounds like a great plan.
 
Hamish Howl said:
So any political figure or police figure with an axe to grind can more or less lock you up indefinitely.

Sounds like a great plan.
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No. It has nothing to do with that. A man with a prior conviction for domestic abuse who is arrested for domestic battery should not get bail. Why do you disagree? We see what happens again and again when violent criminals are released. They either go out and re-offend or dont show up for court or both. Do you have a better plan?
 
Maidenrules29 said:
No. It has nothing to do with that. A man with a prior conviction for domestic abuse who is arrested for domestic battery should not get bail. Why do you disagree? We see what happens again and again when violent criminals are released. They either go out and re-offend or dont show up for court or both. Do you have a better plan?
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Okay, so you're in the guilty until proven innocent camp. Good to know.
 
Hamish Howl said:
Okay, so you're in the guilty until proven innocent camp. Good to know.
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Not for all who are accused, no. So you think anyone, even those with past convictions for violent felonies, should be granted bail. Okay, so you're in the I'm on the side of violent criminals camp. Good to know.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Not for all who are accused, no. So you think anyone, even those with past convictions for violent felonies, should be granted bail. Okay, so you're in the I'm on the side of violent criminals camp. Good to know.
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Bail can be, and is, withheld for people who are considered a present threat to the public.

What are you going on about?
 
Illinois has an end to cash bail coming up. Expect more Bail Fail horror stories from Illinois in the future.
 
Roadvirus said:
Illinois has an end to cash bail coming up. Expect more Bail Fail horror stories from Illinois in the future.
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Why is it that liberal / progressives / Democrats can't realize when one of their public policies in abject failure and continue 'repeating the same thing expecting different results' (definition of insanity)?

I seem to recall that Illinois law enforcement is in revolt over this, if they all quit, who's going to 'protect and serve'? Anyone? It isn't Illinois politicians, clearly. May very well be yet another leftist state where reasonable people exodus, like California.
 
Another preview of life in Illinois following the official start of the SAFE-T Act:

www.foxnews.com

Chicago sex offender molests multiple women while on bail: report

David Buckner, a 28-year-od registered sex offender in Chicago, allegedly molested multiple women in a string of assaults while out on bail, according to a local report.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
Roadvirus said:
A thread for those stories where some state's "bail reform" or some criminal-coddling DA/Judge with a soft spot for crumbs of society has led to disaster.

www.foxnews.com

NYC man out on bail for alleged robbery caught on video now wanted for pointing gun at woman

A Brooklyn man charged with the savage caught-on-video robbery of a 68-year-old Citi Bike rider is now being sought by police for pointing a gun at woman, Fox News has learned.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

Our first contestant is a crumb out on bail for robbery. Prosecutors asked for $100K, but a ***** judge kicked it down to $20K. Now free, our story's antagonist decided to climb the criminal ladder to the level of "assault & deadly weapon possession". And to show he's an egotistical freak, he's posting stuff on Instagram while on the run.
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You really dont seem to understand what bail is. Not surprising for internet tough guys.
 
Peter said:
Yes, how can anyone prove they won't re-offend?
If I was a criminal and had just got out of prison I could do everything they ask and look totally rehabilitated but what's actually stopping me from then going on a crime spree and stealing every football teams trophies and putting them in the trophy cabinet of my favourite team to make it look like they're the best team ever?

By the way that would totally be my crime spree if I was forced to go on one.
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Wha? I love armchair criminal psychologists. They are about as lolzworthy as body language experts.
 
Roadvirus said:
A known flight risk given bail now can't be found...

www.foxnews.com

Feds hunt New Hampshire fugitive in child sex assault 'pattern' sprung on $3k bail after hiding out in Mexico

The U.S. Marshals Service said its New Hampshire Joint Fugitive Task Force is trying to locate Angel Florez-Ramirez for aggravated felonious sexual assault on a victim under age 13.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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Fox news does love the flashy dramatics but lets get real about what the system is and how supposedly charging a poor person thousands of dollars makes it work any better. You got the floor.
 
bomberfox said:
Fox news does love the flashy dramatics but lets get real about what the system is and how supposedly charging a poor person thousands of dollars makes it work any better. You got the floor.
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So you have no problem letting a criminal who is a known flight risk out on bail?
 
Roadvirus said:
So you have no problem letting a criminal who is a known flight risk out on bail?
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Tell me how charging more than someone can afford makes a difference. Not like they are going to be able to cough it up. I’d love to know.

Im setting the flight risk question aside momentarily even though it is the core of the issue when deciding whether or not to set bail in the first place
 
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