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Ashli Babbitt, justified shooting based on legality? Yes or no

Ashli Babbitt, justified shooting based on legality? Yes or no

  • Total voters
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What if she were frantic because her child had wandered off?
What if she were running to her husband, the congressman, who just had a heart attack?
What if killer hornets were buzzing her head?

Too many 'what ifs' to be so sure in a fluid situation.
 
joko104 said:
It is ONLY for Republicans that the police are to NEVER use non-lethal force. Any resistance to governmental power - if Democratic - must be dealt with by summary execution. For Democratic, BLM or Antifa "insurgency? The police are to completely withdraw.
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No, you're getting it backwards. ONLY Trumpists are allowed to destroy things during a protest.

"When the looting starts, the shooting starts." - Donald J Trump
 
Taylor said:
The whole reason for being there was to protest - get their voices heard.
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Thousands did that, outside. Several hundred took it past protest and into an insurrection, or mob, use whatever term you like, storming the Capitol, vandalism, and injuring around 150 LEOs. They went way past protest.

Sorry, but I've seen the video. The whole "down" staircase behind her is filled with officers. There were a couple of them standing just a few feet away from her when she was shot.
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They're coming up...

That's no different than any other large protest. Because you hear reports of violence the next street over does not give you the right to start shooting people who you believe may pose a threat in your vicinity, but who haven't actually engaged an any such behavior.

You're only allowed to shoot people who pose an imminent threat. Ashlii Babbit posed no such threat.
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A mob attempting to breach that final barrier between them and members of Congress posed an 'imminent threat.' Why do you think those in charge had those guys standing at the door escorted out? They feared for those officers' safety, i.e. considered that mob at that place an 'imminent threat' to the safety of those officers. If they cross that barrier they are an imminent threat to those behind the barrier.

It's really simple, but this is where we are with the right wing MAGA contingent these days. They're defending a mob attack on the Capitol. It's in fact amazing that only one person was shot and killed. It could easily have been a dozen, or dozens, given where this took place, the U.S. Capitol, and whose lives were put at risk - members of Congress. But that's not enough for the MAGAs - they were supporting Trump, so they're the good guys, and I guess should have been given pats on the back as they rushed to confront members of Congress, and everyone HOPED that nothing bad happened.

It's nonsense. We all know it's nonsense, which is why you guys have to misrepresent the risks posed by a mob at every opportunity - limit the discussion to Babbitt as if she was the only person there in the hallway, and ignore the mob behind her and beside her trying like heck to break down that barrier all across the barrier. The hole she went through was just the first opening. In minutes there would have been other openings. The LEOs on the other side can see this and stopped the threat, which was their DUTY.
 
rocket88 said:
No, you're getting it backwards. ONLY Trumpists are allowed to destroy things during a protest.

"When the looting starts, the shooting starts." - Donald J Trump
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Name what Republicans have destroyed by looting. It's your claim.
 
swing_voter said:
They're not pressing charges against the officer who shot her.[,/QUOTE]This sets an interesting precedent. Cops can now shoot protesters with impunity depending on skin color and which political party they belong to.
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Fledermaus said:
Many lives... The sanctity of the election process...

Need I go on?
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BAD attempt a defection. Name any time Republicans have engaged in "looting." That was your claim.
 
joko104 said:
BAD attempt a defection. Name any time Republicans have engaged in "looting." That was your claim.
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i dont understand this question? are you saying that when looting and rioting goes on there's no republicans present?
I mean the capital was just loot and vandalized and there were certainly republicans present, how many riots broke out last summer also,

its would be bat shit tin foil hat nutter to claim that any political group wasnt present at all those things
 
Taylor said:
Absurd. There were dozens of people who posed a much greater danger that day than she ever did, and probably 100's who "did what she did". None of them were killed.
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Good point, it would be justified to shoot those other people as well to defend the capitol and our government. Those dozens of other insurrectionists should be grateful they are still alive to tell the tale of how they were sold a lie, before being thrown under the bus by a leader too chicken (or out of shape?) to stand with them. As for the single shooting, it appears to have been clean and effective.

As a general rule, don't storm federal buildings, law enforcement buildings, military installations or nuclear power plants at risk of becoming another Ashli Bobbitt. This was basic knowledge drilled into me as a kid so I'm not sure why these yahoos didn't understand this simple point.
 
JasperL said:
First of all, again, "She was not protesting anything. She was attempting to breach a final barrier between her and a mob of others, and members of Congress and other civilians." That's not protesting.

And at the time she was shot, no, half those behind her were not 'armed officers.'


Assuming she wasn't part of any mob that had injured LEOs, how in the hell can those behind the barrier know this? In their radios, they're hearing about chaos throughout the Capitol, many guarding the Capitol injured, and in front of them are people crashing through a final barrier. You want to ignore the context here. Their JOB, their DUTY, is to protect those on the other side of that barrier. Period. They did that. Babbitt made a stupid decision, and is dead. It's not the LEO's fault for doing their job.
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She thought democrats stole the election with voting machine fraud and wanted to occupy the capitol for a few hours in protest... But she wasnt protesting. She was but she wasnt. She was just some Trump terrorist.

And all those antifa/blm people lighting stuff on fire? They arent terrorists. They are just protesters!
 
phoenix2020 said:
Good point, it would be justified to shoot those other people as well to defend the capitol and our government. Those dozens of other insurrectionists should be grateful they are still alive to tell the tale of how they were sold a lie, before being thrown under the bus by a leader too chicken (or out of shape?) to stand with them. As for the single shooting, it appears to have been clean and effective.

As a general rule, don't storm federal buildings, law enforcement buildings, military installations or nuclear power plants at risk of becoming another Ashli Bobbitt. This was basic knowledge drilled into me as a kid so I'm not sure why these yahoos didn't understand this simple point.
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They probably assumed they would be able to occupy the building for at least 1 workday seeing as they seen BLM shutting down freeways and burning down federal buildings and enitre apartment complex and never get shot.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
She thought democrats stole the election with voting machine fraud and wanted to occupy the capitol for a few hours in protest... But she wasnt protesting. She was but she wasnt. She was just some Trump terrorist.

And all those antifa/blm people lighting stuff on fire? They arent terrorists. They are just protesters!
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She believed a lie and committed crimes and acted stupid based on her beliefs. She got shot.

If there are BLM and/or antifa protestors who have been shot for doing anything similar to what she did, then I will still base my assessment on the circumstances, particularly true if they were killed by officers.
 
grip said:
I think the reason capitol police can use deadly force on unarmed assailants is that they could be strapped with hidden explosives. A delayed response could bring the attacker close enough to inflict maximum damage.
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The REASON is because there are different tier of Americans that are treated differently.
~The president has x100000 more rights than you do.
~A congressperson has x1000 more times the rights that you do.
~ Feds have x1000 more power and rights than you do.
~Police have x100 more rights than you.
~And then you have "normal humans".
~And then there is the "Bottom scum tiers" where if there is no camera they have absolutely zero rights compared to all the rest and you can do whatever you want to them, as long as there is no camera and sometimes even if there is one.

Now a percieved "scum tier" tried to occupy the same public space in protest that a hightier was trying to occupy so that enabled Ashli to be shot legally. She shoulda just went and blocked some freeway and stopped thousands of people from getting to work instead of protesting where laws are made.

She was incredibly brave/dumb for trying to cross the barricade but I dont think she desreved to die. One agent could have apprehended her and told the rest if they try to cross they WILL be shot to death. They never even gave her a warning they just executed a weaponless woman.
 
joko104 said:
Name what Republicans have destroyed by looting. It's your claim.
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They broke doors and windows at the Capitol and walked out with podiums, mail and Pelosi's computer. Were you not paying attention?
 
rocket88 said:
They broke doors and windows at the Capitol and walked out with podiums, mail and Pelosi's computer. Were you not paying attention?
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Which of those were destroyed? Did they set the Capitol on fire?
 
dirtpoorchris said:
The REASON is because there are different tier of Americans that are treated differently.
~The president has x100000 more rights than you do.
~A congressperson has x1000 more times the rights that you do.
~ Feds have x1000 more power and rights than you do.
~Police have x100 more rights than you.
~And then you have "normal humans".
~And then there is the "Bottom scum tiers" where if there is no camera they have absolutely zero rights compared to all the rest and you can do whatever you want to them, as long as there is no camera and sometimes even if there is one.

Now a percieved "scum tier" tried to occupy the same public space in protest that a hightier was trying to occupy so that enabled Ashli to be shot legally. She shoulda just went and blocked some freeway and stopped thousands of people from getting to work instead of protesting where laws are made.

She was incredibly brave/dumb for trying to cross the barricade but I dont think she desreved to die. One agent could have apprehended her and told the rest if they try to cross they WILL be shot to death. They never even gave her a warning they just executed a weaponless woman.
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Stop making this into just a "protest." It was a riot, there was violence, and it was an attempt to stop a Constitutional process of the election. In essence, an attempted coup.

Had the Capitol been attacked by Antifa people, I doubt any Trumpsters would be a charitable as they are. They'd be calling for everybody involved to be executed for treason.
 
joko104 said:
Which of those were destroyed? Did they set the Capitol on fire?
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Which doors and windows were destroyed? Ask the Capitol police.

There are destructive things other than fire. I'm not interested in playing your stupid game to excuse people guilty of treason because of Trump. You want to pretend it didn't happen. Which is absolutely deplorable. You're mostly sad that they didn't succeed in crowning Trump emperor.
 
Taylor said:
I didn't say it wasn't possible that she could ever pose a threat. I said she didn't pose any sort of threat when she was shot. You're kind of proving my point for me.
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You've got some weird logic dude. Me asking you what her greater plans were prove she didn't have dangerous plans? I think you missed that first day of junior high math where they learn the most basic tenants of logical tests.

Here's what I think: she, and those behind her had to that point proved that they were willing, capable, and intending to ignore every law enforcement officer, break down and through every physical barrier, shout offensive and racial slurs, bare, swing, and thrust arms, and charge forward to whatever was their goal. They weren't there for pizza. At a bare minimum, she intended to get herself through the door, and to lead the rabid others to follow her. Do you think she was breaking the glass and climbing through the door to lend assistance to the defending officer inside? Put on your logical thinking cap if it still fits, and tell me what part of the above description rules out "dangerous." Because as I described it, I think she had likely dangerous intentions for herself, that would also have encouraged the dangerous intentions of those others behind her. Am I an idiot?
 
dirtpoorchris said:
In most states if a crackhead is crawling through your window without any weapons and you just shoot them dead instead of scaring them off you are now going to prison.
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Not if there are another 50 angry crackheads behind him yelling that they want to tear you apart.
 
VySky said:
Lie. n the video they are clearly right there under no urgency when she was shot
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There were in no position to stop her by using lethal force because they were at arms length among numerour rioters. They had been effecively neutralized and they could not offer any protection to the representatives beyond the blocke danger without putting themselves and other bystanders in serious danger. So, what you see is not lack of urgency. It is "self-preservation" concerns and ineffectiveness to perform their duties.
 
calamity said:
Not if there are another 50 angry crackheads behind him yelling that they want to tear you apart.
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Ya I guess youre right. They shoulda just used like some cool CIA special ops foam grenades' or something.
 
Rawley said:
Really? He feared for his life from this unarmed woman coming through this window?
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He did not know she was unarmed. And even an unarmed person can be dangerous when he/she sets an example for others to follow and when she comes close enough to block the field of fire or distract the shooter.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
She thought democrats stole the election with voting machine fraud and wanted to occupy the capitol for a few hours in protest... But she wasnt protesting. She was but she wasnt. She was just some Trump terrorist.

And all those antifa/blm people lighting stuff on fire? They arent terrorists. They are just protesters!
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So what?
 
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