As Trump dithers over Ukraine, Russia’s military edge weakens, officials say

[JoeB131]

At the end of the day, there is no justification for putin's unprovoked, unwarranted, and illegal invasion, occupation, and brutalization of another country.

You're absolutely right. There wasn't.

But that's where we are at now. He has Eastern Ukraine, and he's not giving it back.

So now what? Continue the war perpetually like they did in Korea?

 

[JoeB131]

Horseshit.

Hey, guy, it's over. Zelenskyy has lost.

You are demonstrating what is known as the "Sunk Cost Fallacy."

It's when you've invested a lot of time and money into a project that is going nowhere, and because you've invested all this time, money (and in this case, lives) into something, you keep doing it instead of admitting failure.

This is why Vietnam dragged on for a decade, even though everyone admitted that the minute we pulled out, Saigon would fall, which it did.
It's why we dithered in Afghanistan for a decade after we (finally) killed Bin Laden in another country.

The West has dumped 430 billion dollars into Ukraine, more than twice the country's GDP.



What are we even trying to accomplish at this point? Driving Russia out of Ukraine and Donbas? That isn't going to happen, they are firmly entrenched.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Hey, guy, it's over. Zelenskyy has lost.

The strategic/tactical mastermind has spoken.

Most of those serving in the UKR military have no memory of the USSR.

But the cruelties of Russian governance from 1919 to 1991 are well known.

And they have Bucha as a recent reminder. And the murder of Azovstal POW's in Molodizhne.

And the field executions of UKR POW's. The slaughter after surrender would be hideous.

But you look forward to such mayhem and encourage the Russians to press on.

I'll never understand what makes certain individuals tick.

 

[JoeB131]

The strategic/tactical mastermind has spoken.

Most of those serving in the UKR military have no memory of the USSR.

But the cruelties of Russian governance from 1919 to 1991 are well known.

And they have Bucha as a recent reminder. And the murder of Azovstal POW's in Molodizhne.

And the field executions of UKR POW's. The slaughter after surrender would be hideous.

But you look forward to such mayhem and encourage the Russians to press on.

I'll never understand what makes certain individuals tick.

As a wise man said, "War is Hell".

So, tell me the scenario where Ukraine beats a country four times its population size with 10 times its GDP.

The Russians need no encouragement to press on, this has become a matter of national pride for them.

So what is needed is someone sensible to sit both sides down, and hammer out an agreement that everyone can live with.

 

[reinaert]

Alaska was sold to the US in 1857. Can Moscow now renege on that transfer because Putin has had had a change of heart?

Ukraine allowed Crimea to have autonomy and their own Constitution. Far more freedom than Moscow ever permitted.

The Tatars began returning to Crimea after Ukrainian independence in 1991. Stalin deported (ethnic cleansing) at least 200,000 Tatars in 1944. 8,000+ died during deportation.

After the illegal Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014, the Russian persecutions began anew.....

Crimea: One year on from annexation; critics harassed, attacked and silenced

The de facto authorities in Crimea have failed to investigate a series of abductions and torture of their critics, and resorted to an unrelenting campaign of intimidation to silence dissent, said Amnesty International in a briefing published today on the first anniversary of annexation.

www.amnesty.org

Crimea: Persecution of Crimean Tatars Intensifies

Russian authorities in Crimea have intensified persecution of Crimean Tatars, under various pretexts and with the apparent goal of completely silencing dissent on the peninsula, Human Rights Watch said today. Crimean Tatars are a Muslim ethnic minority indigenous to the Crimean Peninsula. Many...

www.hrw.org

There are ethnic Russians living in most European countries. Just how far does this Russian "protection" extend? To Poland? To the Baltic States?

I lived in Crimea for a year as a territory of Ukraine. There was no Russian dissatisfaction. Ethinc Russians in Crimea enjoyed a greater degree of freedon than Russians living in Russia proper. The Tartars also enjoyed greater freedoms, having their own television and radio stations and their own parliament (The Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People). There was harmony until 2013 when Moscow began sending agitators to Crimea. Were you aware that the Russian agent Maria Butina agitated in Sevastopol before infiltrating the NRA/GOP stateside? As a reward for her "services" to the Motherland, Butina is today a Deputy in the Russian Duma, sitting on the Committee on International Affairs as well as the Commission on Investigation of Foreign Interference in Domestic Affairs of Russia. (Trump AG Pam Bondi has dismantled the DoJ/FBI units that investigated Russian election-interference/cyber-hacking here in the US).

You're not very good at this. I suggest a different cause celebre. Defending Netanyahu (another wanted war criminal)? The Republic of Congo (ROC)? Plenty of Russian mercenaries there.

Savage. Necessary. Lost on the recipient. Still, a gorgeously savage slap down.

 

[JoeB131]

Savage. Necessary. Lost on the recipient. Still, a gorgeously savage slap down.

Not really. I see a lot of people who are bravely willing to let more Ukrainians die for no good reason, but I doubt any of them would want to do the fighting themselves.

This war has become pointless. The front lines haven't really budged in over a year. How many lives is Zelenskyy's ability to save face worth?

 

[Quag]

You're absolutely right. There wasn't.

But that's where we are at now. He has Eastern Ukraine, and he's not giving it back.

So now what? Continue the war perpetually like they did in Korea?

It wont be perpetual Putin wont live forever (hter are lots of windows in Russia) and the Russian economy and its military will completly collapse if the west keeps the sanctions up

 

[soap box]

As a wise man said, "War is Hell".

So, tell me the scenario where Ukraine beats a country four times its population size with 10 times its GDP.

The Russians need no encouragement to press on, this has become a matter of national pride for them.

So what is needed is someone sensible to sit both sides down, and hammer out an agreement that everyone can live with.

This is not about both sides. Stop and imagine one side has a unilateral ceasefire. How does Zelensky stop the war? What would that look like?

Compare that to saying Putin can stop this war today.

There's only one man who can stop this war and it's the same man who started it. Don't blame the victims. Blame Putin.

 

[JoeB131]

It wont be perpetual Putin wont live forever (hter are lots of windows in Russia) and the Russian economy and its military will completly collapse if the west keeps the sanctions up

Whoever succeeds Putin will follow the same policies.

Waiting for Putin to die isn't a strategy. He's supposedly been "about to die" for the last two years.

As for sanctions, the Chinese have stepped up to the plate and made up for what little trade Russia lost from Western Sanctions. Russia also has a good relationship with India.

Oh, yeah, and Trump has pretty much said he's not letting the US play anymore.

This is not about both sides. Stop and imagine one side has a unilateral ceasefire. How does Zelensky stop the war? What would that look like?

Compare that to saying Putin can stop this war today.

There's only one man who can stop this war and it's the same man who started it. Don't blame the victims. Blame Putin.

Here's how Zelensky stops the war. Stop attacking Russia, stop sending terrorists into Russia to blow up airplanes and assassinate officials and blow up pipelines. Show up at the negotiating table and negotiate in good faith.

 

[Quag]

Whoever succeeds Putin will follow the same policies.

I doubt it his succesor will more likely use his death as an excuse to get out of the quagmire that is destroying Russia

Waiting for Putin to die isn't a strategy. He's supposedly been "about to die" for the last two years.

Not expecting it to be of natural causes and the implosion of the Russian economy will aslo do the trick (it will also likely show Putin the window)

As for sanctions, the Chinese have stepped up to the plate and made up for what little trade Russia lost from Western Sanctions. Russia also has a good relationship with India.

Pure fantasy the Russian economy is tanking

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russias-oil-gas-budget-revenue-falls-by-more-than-third-may-2025-06-04/

Russia Inflation Rate

Inflation Rate in Russia decreased to 10.20 percent in April from 10.30 percent in March of 2025. This page provides - Russia Inflation Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

Putin warned of dual threat to Russian economy: "Countdown to a crisis"

A Russian economist has warned that the country may slide into "stagflation" by the end of the year if its leaders don't take action.

www.newsweek.com

Oh, yeah, and Trump has pretty much said he's not letting the US play anymore.

Yes the traitor is willing to help Russia but the Senate is not folding for him and Europe, Russias largest trading partner isnt backing down

Here's how Zelensky stops the war. Stop attacking Russia, stop sending terrorists into Russia to blow up airplanes and assassinate officials and blow up pipelines. Show up at the negotiating table and negotiate in good faith.

Nonsense Ukraine is attacking military targets unlike the war criminal Putin who targets civilians and it is Putin who refuses to negociatet in good faith

 

[soap box]

Whoever succeeds Putin will follow the same policies.

How can you be sure of that? I don't think that's a given premise at all.

Waiting for Putin to die isn't a strategy. He's supposedly been "about to die" for the last two years.

There's got to be a million Russians who would kill Putin in a second.

As for sanctions, the Chinese have stepped up to the plate and made up for what little trade Russia lost from Western Sanctions. Russia also has a good relationship with India.

Oh, yeah, and Trump has pretty much said he's not letting the US play anymore.



Here's how Zelensky stops the war. Stop attacking Russia, stop sending terrorists into Russia to blow up airplanes and assassinate officials and blow up pipelines. Show up at the negotiating table and negotiate in good faith.

Are you saying Ukraine should simply surrender. Wouldn't that mean Putin would invade the next, country, and the next after that? Giving Putin everything he wants is not an end of war, it will instead start another.

Have you seen Putins demands? Have you heard what he's said about restoring the USSR? Why is it that Putin can't compromise on anything? Why doesn't Putin want to stop the war? Do you know how many Russians have been sent to the slaughter? That many Russians have died and Putin wants more. Don't blame the victims, blame Putin.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Hey, guy, it's over. Zelenskyy has lost.

You are demonstrating what is known as the "Sunk Cost Fallacy."

It's when you've invested a lot of time and money into a project that is going nowhere, and because you've invested all this time, money (and in this case, lives) into something, you keep doing it instead of admitting failure.

This is why Vietnam dragged on for a decade, even though everyone admitted that the minute we pulled out, Saigon would fall, which it did.
It's why we dithered in Afghanistan for a decade after we (finally) killed Bin Laden in another country.

The West has dumped 430 billion dollars into Ukraine, more than twice the country's GDP.

View attachment 67573844

What are we even trying to accomplish at this point? Driving Russia out of Ukraine and Donbas? That isn't going to happen, they are firmly entrenched.

I can see how you might feel that way, if all you had for news was Russian milbloggers.

Given that your post is riddled with bullshit "facts".

Work harder next time, tovarisch.

 

[Roadvirus]

As a wise man said, "War is Hell".

It says alot about you when you shrug off the barbarity of Bucha with a simple "War is Hell"

 

[Roadvirus]

As for sanctions, the Chinese have stepped up to the plate and made up for what little trade Russia lost from Western Sanctions.

That's why the U.S....at least under Biden...started slapping sanctions on Chinese entities doing biz with Russia.

Russia also has a good relationship with India.

So does the U.S. (until Trump screws that up).

India is not as buddy-buddy with Russia like Iran, NK or China.

Oh, yeah, and Trump has pretty much said he's not letting the US play anymore.

That's because he's just obeying orders from Moscow.

Here's how Zelensky stops the war. Stop attacking Russia, stop sending terrorists into Russia to blow up airplanes and assassinate officials and blow up pipelines. Show up at the negotiating table and negotiate in good faith.

Zelensky will be more then happy to stop....once Russia stops.

Ukraine has every right to send sabotage teams, targeting Russian industries & killing WAR CRIMINALS. They are defending themselves. It's up to Russia, the aggressor, to stop first.

 

[Bullseye]

"Rather than the U.S. leadership he promised, Trump has mused that he might just walk away and leave the negotiations to the Europeans — perhaps even the new pope — to sort out. His administration has not committed to additional military or financial aid to Ukraine.

But the timing for putting pressure on Moscow may be more advantageous now than at any point since the early days of the conflict, according to more than a dozen officials who discussed the current state of the war and the sensitive politics and diplomacy surrounding it, most on the condition of anonymity.

...Whether Putin genuinely believes he has “all the cards,” as Trump has put it, or is simply waiting for the West to grow tired of the seemingly unending conflict, dwindling stockpiles of Soviet-era equipment will make Russia increasingly dependent on new systems produced from scratch. That, a number of Western officials and experts said, makes it the right time to impose new sanctions and to continue to supply new weaponry to Ukraine."

Link

Will Trump come to the uncomfortable realization that supporting Ukraine more is tge quickest way to bring an end to the war?

Classic Wa Po poo-poo.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Classic Wa Po poo-poo.

Fox News settles Dominion defamation case for $787.5m

"Lies have consequences," says a lawyer for the voting firm about the network's false election claims.

www.bbc.com

 

[Bullseye]

Fox News settles Dominion defamation case for $787.5m

"Lies have consequences," says a lawyer for the voting firm about the network's false election claims.

www.bbc.com

And . . .? Since I never watch Fox except for sports you're point is as sharp as a beachball.

 

[Rogue Valley]

And . . .? Since I never watch Fox .....

.....And Trump never spray-paints his face.

 

[JoeB131]

How can you be sure of that? I don't think that's a given premise at all.

Um, okay, given that restoring Russia has become a national cause, can't see how the next guy backs down without something to show for their troubles.

There's got to be a million Russians who would kill Putin in a second.

None of who can get within the same zip code of him

Are you saying Ukraine should simply surrender. Wouldn't that mean Putin would invade the next, country, and the next after that? Giving Putin everything he wants is not an end of war, it will instead start another.

No one said "give him everything he wants". Give him what he already has and is reasonable, on the other hand, works perfectly well. Donbas and Crimea are not unreasonable asks, given 1) He's already got firm control of them and 2) they are ethnically Russian to start with.

Have you seen Putins demands? Have you heard what he's said about restoring the USSR? Why is it that Putin can't compromise on anything? Why doesn't Putin want to stop the war? Do you know how many Russians have been sent to the slaughter? That many Russians have died and Putin wants more. Don't blame the victims, blame Putin.

Get real. He hasn't even tried to Annex Belarus, which is run by a stooge.

 

[Juin]

Unjust is a point of view. I would say, yes, the Russians are more in the wrong than the Ukrainians are.
But here's the thing. There was an agreement in place to resolve the Donbas issue, that being the Minsk Agreement. Zelenskyy violated it repeatedly before the Russians invaded. Now, two wrongs don't make a right.

Its worse than that. In his violations of Minsk Accords Zelensky had the full backing of France, the UK and Germany. The then President of Ukraine Poroshenko, Francois Hollande of France and Merkel of Germany have all gone public with statements that they did not sign the Minsk Accords in good faith. That they bought time to arm Ukraine. And Zelensky was all bent on attacking the separatist republics of Donetsk and Luhansk and was only preempted by Putin's own SMO

 

[Juin]

Ukraine is getting stronger, Russia is getting weaker.

You might recall that Afghanistan defeated Russia.

Afghanistan also defeated Ukraine. It is often forgotten the Ukrainian SSR was also present in Afghanistan

 

[JoeB131]

I can see how you might feel that way, if all you had for news was Russian milbloggers.

Given that your post is riddled with bullshit "facts".

Work harder next time, tovarisch.

I can read a map. Ukraine has made no important gains since 2023.

 

[Juin]

And so did the Ukrainians.

Here's the thing, put the war aside for the moment. The Donbas is predominately Russian. Clearly, they can no longer count on constitutional protections if their votes are thrown out in the Maidan Revolution, so you can see why they wanted out. (Same with the Crimea).

Well put. In a nutshell there is the beginning of the problems. The Maidan Revolution removed the constitutional protections for the ethnic Russians of Ukraine. Other atrocities on ethnic Russians agravated matters

European Court rules Ukraine guilty in Odessa massacre | MR Online

This ruling has received limited coverage in Western media outlets, as it confirms the Ukrainian regime’s support of the neo-Nazis through its inaction and refusal to take any measures against the killers.

mronline.org

 

[Juin]

And Putin invaded Ukraine. No amount of pitiful and stupid distractions and diversions can change what Putin did.

Even if he had excellent reasons for doing so?

 

[Juin]

You'll need an internationally recognized observation of a new referendum to show that's still true.

Nope. Russia is sovereign and free to organise its own referendums

I don't believe it. You'll have to prove it with a legitimate Referendum. Oh! I forgot that Putin can't handle a referendum because he can't control the voting so I guess we'll just have to have a war and kill a half million people instead.

I dont think you will believe any referendum that does not line up with your Kyiv narrative