As Trump dithers over Ukraine, Russia’s military edge weakens, officials say

[Rogue Valley]

LOL Ha ha ha , 40 aircraft LOL. 40 aircraft.

Not a good day for our Putin water-carriers.

 

[Tigerace117]

You'll need an internationally recognized observation of a new referendum to show that's still true. I don't believe it. You'll have to prove it with a legitimate Referendum. Oh! I forgot that Putin can't handle a referendum because he can't control the voting so I guess we'll just have to have a war and kill a half million people instead.



Tell Putin to announce the Russian KIA. Oh, I forgot, it's so humiliating he can't even lie about it.



Yemen , Pakistan, Afghanistan, LOL Ha ha ha , 40 aircraft LOL. 40 aircraft.

No we don’t, because you’ve already admitted “internationally recognized observation” won’t be accepted by the West anyway.

You refusing to believe reality can’t actually change it.

Tell the West to stop making up laughably inflated claims about Russian losses if they want people to believe them.

Yes, we’ve throughly established America sees the mass murder of Muslim civilians as a good thing. Makes your sputtering about Putin worthless.

It’s indeed laughable how badly the war is going for Kiev.

 

[soap box]

No we don’t, because you’ve already admitted “internationally recognized observation” won’t be accepted by the West anyway.

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that's something I posted? I never posted what you just said .

You refusing to believe reality can’t actually change it.

LOL!!

Tell the West to stop making up laughably inflated claims about Russian losses if they want people to believe them.

Yes, we’ve throughly established America sees the mass murder of Muslim civilians as a good thing. Makes your sputtering about Putin worthless

It’s indeed laughable how badly the war is going for Kiev.

200,000 dead Russians since the invasion.

 

[Tigerace117]

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that's something I posted? I never posted what you just said .



LOL!!





200,000 dead Russians since the invasion.

You’ve made it very clear with each and every post you’ve made....as shown also by your utter refusal to acknowledge the Crimeans’ repeatedly stated wishes.

So not even remotely close to the million Russian KIA being asserted here?

 

[soap box]

You’ve made it very clear with each and every post you’ve made....as shown also by your utter refusal to acknowledge the Crimeans’ repeatedly stated wishes.

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I posted that. I had repeatedly supported a referendum to end the war. But you posted something I never said at all.

So not even remotely close to the million Russian KIA being asserted here?

No. 200,000 is an estimate from independent sources that examined cemeteries, public information and other available data.

And Putin feels no shame, and he still can't admit how many Russians he sent the meat grinder.

 

[Tigerace117]

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I posted that. I had repeatedly supported a referendum to end the war. But you posted something I never said at all.



No. 200,000 is an estimate from independent sources that examined cemeteries, public information and other available data.

And Putin feels no shame, and he still can't admit how many Russians he sent the meat grinder.

All the blather about “putelections” strongly demonstrates otherwise. But hey, way to continue waffling back and forth practically by the post

“Independent” sources who are strongly incentivized to inflate said claims because it’s what their audience wants to hear.

America feels no shame about torturing and murdering vast numbers of civilians over the last century, and the last twenty years in particular.. Why would Putin?.

 

[BogJeSrbin]

Even if the military edge is weaker, Russia is still going to keep all the provinces it conquered. I will not be surprised if Russia liberates all of Ukraine from Nazism.

 

[soap box]

All the blather about “putelections” strongly demonstrates otherwise. But hey, way to continue waffling back and forth practically by the post

Lol, a Putelection has never been valid. An organization the monitors or observers can be verified with proven transparency.

But Putin can't do it if he can't control the vote, which means it's not legitimate. He could, but he can't stand it.

“Independent” sources who are strongly incentivized to inflate said claims because it’s what their audience wants to hear.

Sorry, they used statistically sound sources and went by the numbers. Which you can't admit. Well, they admitted it for you.

200,000 dead Russians for the greater glory of Mother F'n Russia.

So you're ashamed of how many Russians have been killed by Putin. None of your posturing can change the numbers of dead Russians.

America feels no shame about torturing and murdering vast numbers of civilians over the last century, and the last twenty years in particular.. Why would Putin?.

Sure, America feels no shame. And Putin doesn't either. That's not the point. The point is that Putin could end the war today. But he won't because he's a warmonger.

 

[Tigerace117]

Lol, a Putelection has never been valid. An organization the monitors or observers can be verified with proven transparency.

But Putin can't do it if he can't control the vote, which means it's not legitimate. He could, but he can't stand it.


Sorry, they used statistically sound sources and went by the numbers. Which you can't admit. Well, they admitted it for you.

200,000 dead Russians for the greater glory of Mother F'n Russia.

So you're ashamed of how many Russians have been killed by Putin. None of your posturing can change the numbers of dead Russians.



Sure, America feels no shame. And Putin doesn't either. That's not the point. The point is that Putin could end the war today. But he won't because he's a warmonger.

Gee dude, so what you are saying is that you wouldn’t actually accept a referendum to end the war. Congrats on proving me right....again

The US can’t stand elections in which its preferred outcome loses, as has been proven dozens of times.

Sorry, they know what their audience wants to hear, and they know how violently the West rejects facts that go against the narratives they want. They have every incentive in the world to inflate Russian losses and downplay Ukrainian ones.

No amount of posturing can change the fact Crimea has been trying to leave Ukraine for decades.

Oh, so your saying all that talk about “feeling no shame” is worthless. Noted.

 

[soap box]

Gee dude, so what you are saying is that you wouldn’t actually accept a referendum to end the war. Congrats on proving me right....again

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I posted that?
I would accept and support a Referendum or election when the transparency can be verified by international observers. I do not trust Putin to conduct an election. Do you trust Putin to conduct an election?

The US can’t stand elections in which its preferred outcome loses, as has been proven dozens of times.

Sorry, they know what their audience wants to hear, and they know how violently the West rejects facts that go against the narratives they want. They have every incentive in the world to inflate Russian losses and downplay Ukrainian ones.

Then you'll have to critique their methods of arriving at that number.

What we know about Russian losses after three years of the war in Ukraine. 165,000 military deaths and a full list of all known names

Today marks the third anniversary of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine—and three years of our ongoing quest to reveal the true cost of this war. We are counting Russian ca...

en.zona.media

No amount of posturing can change the fact Crimea has been trying to leave Ukraine for decades.

No amount of posturing will change the fact that Putin is a lying war criminal.

Oh, so your saying all that talk about “feeling no shame” is worthless. Noted.

You whatabouted yourself again.

Do you trust Putin to conduct an election?

Critique the method of finding the number of dead Russians.

 

[soap box]

No amount of posturing can change the fact Crimea has been trying to leave Ukraine for decades.

Putin can't prove that with a war. Putin could prove that to be true with a real referendum. But no one is convinced with his war. But he can't stand a real election, so no one is convinced at all.

 

[Tigerace117]

Putin can't prove that with a war. Putin could prove that to be true with a real referendum. But no one is convinced with his war. But he can't stand a real election, so no one is convinced at all.

Refusing to acknowledge repeated votes shows otherwise. You’ve already admitted otherwise....repeatedly.

 

[soap box]

Refusing to acknowledge repeated votes shows otherwise. You’ve already admitted otherwise....repeatedly.

You never understood anything I've posted.

I always ignore Putin elections.

I will support a Referendum if it is verified independently.

You are unable to dismiss the methods used to calculate the number of Russians KIA.

200,000 dead Russians.

Do you trust Putin to conduct an election?

 

[Tigerace117]

You never understood anything I've posted.

I always ignore Putin elections.

I will support a Referendum if it is verified independently.

You are unable to dismiss the methods used to calculate the number of Russians KIA.

200,000 dead Russians.

Do you trust Putin to conduct an election?

Gee dude, then, by definition, you would have to ignore any such referendum to end the war

No you won’t. You just admitted you wouldn’t.

Other than pointing out how laughably inflated said estimates are.

He isn’t any less trustworthy than the West, and you expect me to trust them

 

[soap box]

Gee dude, then, by definition, you would have to ignore any such referendum to end the war

No you won’t. You just admitted you wouldn’t.

Other than pointing out how laughably inflated said estimates are.

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I posted any of that? You will have to quote me on all that.



You are unable to explain the methods used to calculate the number of dead Russians. Nobody asked for your imagination. Explain why you think the numbers are less than 200,000. Unless you're too embarrassed to talk about it.

He isn’t any less trustworthy than the West, and you expect me to trust them

If you don't trust him to conduct an election, why would you claim the 2014 Crimean referendum is valid? So this means you think the 2014 Referendum is invalid? Or is it that you wish you could trust Putin to conduct an election? You wish you could, but don't? Or do you trust Putin? Which is it?

 

[Tigerace117]

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I posted any of that? You will have to quote me on all that.



You are unable to explain the methods used to calculate the number of dead Russians. Nobody asked for your imagination. Explain why you think the numbers are less than 200,000. Unless you're too embarrassed to talk about it.




If you don't trust him to conduct an election, why would you claim the 2014 Crimean referendum is valid? So this means you think the 2014 Referendum is invalid? Or is it that you wish you could trust Putin to conduct an election? You wish you could, but don't? Or do you trust Putin? Which is it?

You literally admitted you wouldn’t accept any such referendum in the line above

You are unable to explain why anyone should ignore the clear biases involved, nor why anyone should ignore what the Crimeans have repeatedly voted for. Instead, when challenged you panicked and wailed “Putin” over and over again.

I think desperately trying to deny what the Crimeans have repeatedly voted for fails miserably, no matter how many times you wail “Putin”.

 

[soap box]

You literally admitted you wouldn’t accept any such referendum in the line above

You are unable to explain why anyone should ignore the clear biases involved, nor why anyone should ignore what the Crimeans have repeatedly voted for. Instead, when challenged you panicked and wailed “Putin” over and over again.

I think desperately trying to deny what the Crimeans have repeatedly voted for fails miserably, no matter how many times you wail “Putin”.

You are unable to critique the numbers of dead Russians. So the number currently is 200,000. I didn't ask you for your imagination, but that's all you're capable of posting out of denial of the number of Dead Russians. I didn't ask what your imagination is. I asked you to address the methods used to calculate the number of Dead Russian soldiers.

Putin could prove your claims about Crimea by agreeing with the observation of a legitimate Referendum. Can't prove squat with a war.

Why won't Putin put it up to a vote?

You didn't explain why you think 2014 was a legitimate Referendum. Ok Explain how much you trust Putin to conduct a real election.

 

[Tigerace117]

You are unable to critique the numbers of dead Russians. So the number currently is 200,000. I didn't ask you for your imagination, but that's all you're capable of posting out of denial of the number of Dead Russians. I didn't ask what your imagination is. I asked you to address the methods used to calculate the number of Dead Russian soldiers.

Putin could prove your claims about Crimea by agreeing with the observation of a legitimate Referendum. Can't prove squat with a war.

Why won't Putin put it up to a vote?

You didn't explain why you think 2014 was a legitimate Referendum. Ok Explain how much you trust Putin to conduct a real election.

I’ve repeatedly criticized the Western claims about Russian KIA, for example pointing out how absurdly inflated said claims are. Perhaps if you didn’t repeatedly contradict yourself within your every posts you would have noticed that.

No referendum acknowledging the Crimeans’ desire to leave would be accepted as legitimate, as you already admitted.

Because you already admitted doing so was pointless, as you wouldn’t accept the result anyway. It was already repeatedly put to a vote, after all.

 

[soap box]

I’ve repeatedly criticized the Western claims about Russian KIA, for example pointing out how absurdly inflated said claims are. Perhaps if you didn’t repeatedly contradict yourself within your every posts you would have noticed that.

If you think they're inflated then you can explain why the data is wrong. But you can't explain why you think that. I didn't ask you for your imagination. I asked you to support your claims of exaggerated numbers. You have not explained your claim and it's obvious you have a reason why not. You know the numbers are solid but you can't explain why you think they're exaggerated because we know they aren't.

Read the article and explain why you don't think their conclusions are wrong by talking about the methodology.

What we know about Russian losses after three years of the war in Ukraine. 165,000 military deaths and a full list of all known names

Today marks the third anniversary of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine—and three years of our ongoing quest to reveal the true cost of this war. We are counting Russian ca...

en.zona.media

No referendum acknowledging the Crimeans’ desire to leave would be accepted as legitimate, as you already admitted.

Because it was a Putelection. Putin could prove his motive of self determination by calling for a referendum with international monitors. But he can't because self determination is not what he wants.

Because you already admitted doing so was pointless, as you wouldn’t accept the result anyway. It was already repeatedly put to a vote, after all.

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I posted this?

I said the 1991 referendum for Ukrainian independence was monitored by the Helsinki Commission. Who monitored the referendum in 2014 in Crimea?

Do you trust Putin to conduct an election? Why?

 

[Tigerace117]

If you think they're inflated then you can explain why the data is wrong. But you can't explain why you think that. I didn't ask you for your imagination. I asked you to support your claims of exaggerated numbers. You have not explained your claim and it's obvious you have a reason why not. You know the numbers are solid but you can't explain why you think they're exaggerated because we know they aren't.

Read the article and explain why you don't think their conclusions are wrong by talking about the methodology.

What we know about Russian losses after three years of the war in Ukraine. 165,000 military deaths and a full list of all known names

Today marks the third anniversary of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine—and three years of our ongoing quest to reveal the true cost of this war. We are counting Russian ca...

en.zona.media

Because it was a Putelection. Putin could prove his motive of self determination by calling for a referendum with international monitors. But he can't because self determination is not what he wants.



How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I posted this?

I said the 1991 referendum for Ukrainian independence was monitored by the Helsinki Commission. Who monitored the referendum in 2014 in Crimea?

Do you trust Putin to conduct an election? Why?

I’ve already explained repeatedly. If you actually read my posts instead of just wailing “Putin” over and over you would know the answer.

We know Western claims about Russian losses are inflated, because there are posters here claiming Russia has lost a million KIA.

Thanks for once again admitting you would never accept any such referendum to end the war, because you are incapable of handling your side losing.

Whining about “international observers” is therefore worthless.

Why should anyone accept your contention that an election is only valid if the side the U.S. wants wins?

 

[Fledermaus]

Even if the military edge is weaker, Russia is still going to keep all the provinces it conquered. I will not be surprised if Russia liberates all of Ukraine from Nazism.

What Nazism do you speak of?

The fraction of a percentage of the Ukrainian military that Azov represented?

 

[JoeB131]

No. Crimea and Donbas are predominantly ethnic-Russian citizens of Ukraine. There are two factual statements that Putin water-carriers always and purposefully mangle.....

Factual statements: ethnicity ≠ foreign citizenship/loyalty and language ≠ foreign citizenship/loyalty

Do you realize that 50% of the residents of Kyiv speak Russian as a first language? Yet we see no Kyivan's taking up arms against their government, demanding that Kyiv become a part of Russia.

We do not see that phenomenon in Dnipro, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Kharkiv, Kryvyi Rih, or Odesa. All majority Russian-speaking cities within Ukraine.

I suggest that you look up the language-bridge of Surzhyk which is widely used in many parts of Ukraine.

Learn the difference between ethnicity and citizenship. Learn the difference between language and citizenship.

Does Moscow have a right to invade any nation with Russian-speakers present using the faux-justification that all Russian-speakers need Moscow's protection?

C'mon. Think for yourself.

Okay, a few points.

The first point is, we aren't talking about Kyiv or Odessa, we are talking about Donbas and Crimea. Places that are not historically part of Ukraine, but were assigned to the former Ukrainian SSR by the Soviet leadership.

They were willing to be part of the new Ukraine initially as long as they were allowed to have a voice in the process. That voice was silenced when the Ukrainian majority overthrew Yanukovych (With US collusion) and that's when they took up arms.

So Russia's position that they need to protect ethnic Russians has some validity.

 

[iguanaman]

Except the article is a contradiction. If Russia is weakening then Trump is not needed

It depends on how many more Russians and Ukrainians you want to die. Russia is sending 50,000 new Russian men into Ukraine every single month to cover their losses. More help from the US will shorten the conflicts inevitable end and save 100's of 1000's of Russian lives and Ukrainian lives too.

 

[iguanaman]

Okay, a few points.



So Russia's position that they need to protect ethnic Russians has some validity.

LOL It has no more validity than Hitler's claim that he invaded Poland to protect German speakers. Zelensky is a ethnic Russian that Ukraine elected President by a large majority. Does that sound like Russia needs to protect ethnic Russians? They have never been discriminated against unless they think they are not Ukrainians.

 

[soap box]

I’ve already explained repeatedly. If you actually read my posts instead of just wailing “Putin” over and over you would know the answer.

So you trust Putin to conduct a fair and square election. Why can't Putin do what Gorbachev did in 1991?


Would you say you disagree with the validity of the indendence referendum of 1991 but you approve of the validity of the Crimean referendum of 1994?

Gorbachev didn't object to the Helsinki Commission, what is Putin afraid of?

We know Western claims about Russian losses are inflated, because there are posters here claiming Russia has lost a million KIA.

I didn't ask you for your opinion of western claims or what fellow members have posted. I asked why can't you critique the methods they employed.

If you say the numbers in that article are inflated then you can say why their methods aren't correct. But you haven't been able to mention any criticism of the methods they used to confirm more than 100,000 dead Russian soldiers already.

"This list is compiled from verified, publicly available sources, including social media posts by family members, local news reports, and official announcements from regional authorities. This list is not exhaustive, as not every military death becomes public knowledge."

All right. How are they wrong. What's inflated look like. That's all you've said so far. 'Numbers are inflated' doesn't mean nobody's counting them.

Thanks for once again admitting you would never accept any such referendum to end the war, because you are incapable of handling your side losing.

How did you whatabout yourself into thinking that I ever posted what you just said. Please quote that.

I have said 40 times that a new referendum could have been Putins choice but instead he chose an invasion.

If a new referendum is monitored by international organizations then it will further self determination and I will support it thoroughly regardless of the outcome. If it's a Putin election then nobody accepts it.

And that means Putin won't put it to a vote. Why not? Because he can't control the vote. It means that many casualties isn't as important to him as power and control.

Whining about “international observers” is therefore worthless.

Why should anyone accept your contention that an election is only valid if the side the U.S. wants wins?

I trust the EU monitors. I don't trust Putin.
If it's a transparent election, the EU will accept it and Putin will prove everything you're claiming about self determination. But he'll never prove anything with his stupid war.