Arnold Schwarzenegger invokes his Nazi father in emotional message to Russia

[sanman]

Yes. Some did. Others were regular Ukrainians who wanted the Putin puppet out.

Then you do not understand democracy. Democracy is when you go and vote. If you want someone out, you wait until election and vote them out.
You cannot just take the law into your own hands any time you feel like it -- that's anarchy.
Democracy means "Rule of the People" -- not "Chaos of the People", not "Impulse of the People"

The United States govt had been funding groups in Ukraine to carry out its will -- including at the Maidan Capitol Insurrection in 2014.
This is one of the many ways that the US establishment seek to act like a Far Emperor, to play games of empire against others.
Now that same ruling American establishment even seek to impose a govt of their choosing onto the American people themselves, in complete defiance of Democracy.

This establishment couldn't care less about the welfare or happiness or future of the Ukrainian people. Their only goal was to Poke the Bear and create problems with Russia.
They want to fight the Russians without wasting any of their own blood. So they'll use suckers like Ukrainians to fight the Russians -- fight them to the last drop of Ukrainian blood, instead of their own blood.
Why waste your own blood, when you can find a sucker to do it for free? And that's what will now happen.
Oh, you won't get any "freedom" or "independence" from it, sucker -- that's not what you're being "helped" for -- that's not their goal for you, even if you desperately think it to be.

Whitewash what?

It was YOU that brought up Svoboda.

Nope.

I don't like seeing any Nazi collaborators lionized.

The political establishment in Ukraine cater to the views of Far Right. The radicals are useful, because they show up when summoned, unlike the ordinary people of the country.
They show up to fight --- to fight Russians, or even to fight the ordinary people of the country -- they show up to fight whoever the establishment wants them to fight.

Your country is corrupt -- and incorrigibly so. It isn't ruled by the people. It's ruled against the people. And Maidan didn't change that -- only made it worse.
People's quality of life only decreased after 2014.
Maidan 2014 didn't happen to improve the lives of the people -- you're claiming Poroshenko improved peoples' lives? No, he just brought in radicals into the govt. How was that an improvement?
By the time you got rid of him and brought in Zelensky, it was too late -- the war was on, and Zelensky who had campaigned for election on stopping it, couldn't do so -- because radicals who had previously been brought into the govt, had managed to infect parts of the military. This intersection allows for a praetorian elite to have street power -- and to make politicians afraid. That's why your frightened "hero" Zelensky had to award Right Sector commander Dmytro Kotsyubaylo with "Hero of Ukraine" last December.

How Ukraine’s Jewish President, Volodymyr Zelensky, Made Peace with Neo-Nazi Paramilitaries on Front Lines of War with Russia - Toward Freedom

While Western media deploys Volodymyr Zelensky’s Jewish heritage to refute accusations of Nazi influence in Ukraine, the president has ceded to neo-Nazi forces and now depends on them as front line fighters, report Alexander Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal.

towardfreedom.org

What do the numbers show?

Numbers show that you can scare the entire barn yard by killing a few chickens.
Your radicals know this - and especially their bosses like previous Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and successor Denys Monastyrskiy know this.

 

[Fledermaus]

Then you do not understand democracy. Democracy is when you go and vote. If you want someone out, you wait until election and vote them out.
You cannot just take the law into your own hands any time you feel like it -- that's anarchy.
Democracy means "Rule of the People" -- not "Chaos of the People", not "Impulse of the People"

The United States govt had been funding groups in Ukraine to carry out its will -- including at the Maidan Capitol Insurrection in 2014.
This is one of the many ways that the US establishment seek to act like a Far Emperor, to play games of empire against others.
Now that same ruling American establishment even seek to impose a govt of their choosing onto the American people themselves, in complete defiance of Democracy.

This establishment couldn't care less about the welfare or happiness or future of the Ukrainian people. Their only goal was to Poke the Bear and create problems with Russia.
They want to fight the Russians without wasting any of their own blood. So they'll use suckers like Ukrainians to fight the Russians -- fight them to the last drop of Ukrainian blood, instead of their own blood.
Why waste your own blood, when you can find a sucker to do it for free? And that's what will now happen.
Oh, you won't get any "freedom" or "independence" from it, sucker -- that's not what you're being "helped" for -- that's not their goal for you, even if you desperately think it to be.

The political establishment in Ukraine cater to the views of Far Right. The radicals are useful, because they show up when summoned, unlike the ordinary people of the country.
They show up to fight --- to fight Russians, or even to fight the ordinary people of the country -- they show up to fight whoever the establishment wants them to fight.

Your country is corrupt -- and incorrigibly so. It isn't ruled by the people. It's ruled against the people. And Maidan didn't change that -- only made it worse.
People's quality of life only decreased after 2014.
Maidan 2014 didn't happen to improve the lives of the people -- you're claiming Poroshenko improved peoples' lives? No, he just brought in radicals into the govt. How was that an improvement?
By the time you got rid of him and brought in Zelensky, it was too late -- the war was on, and Zelensky who had campaigned for election on stopping it, couldn't do so -- because radicals who had previously been brought into the govt, had managed to infect parts of the military. This intersection allows for a praetorian elite to have street power -- and to make politicians afraid. That's why your frightened "hero" Zelensky had to award Right Sector commander Dmytro Kotsyubaylo with "Hero of Ukraine" last December.

How Ukraine’s Jewish President, Volodymyr Zelensky, Made Peace with Neo-Nazi Paramilitaries on Front Lines of War with Russia - Toward Freedom

While Western media deploys Volodymyr Zelensky’s Jewish heritage to refute accusations of Nazi influence in Ukraine, the president has ceded to neo-Nazi forces and now depends on them as front line fighters, report Alexander Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal.

towardfreedom.org

Numbers show that you can scare the entire barn yard by killing a few chickens.
Your radicals know this - and especially their bosses like previous Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and successor Denys Monastyrskiy know this.

Much typing.

Much accusations.

Yet Svoboda the boogie man you fear so is a fraction of a percentage of the whole of Ukraine.

And the intent was to provoke Russia?

Blaming the victim of a crime for that crime is so pathetic.

And "Making peace" means there was conflict.

Does it not?

 

[oneworld2]

I ignored them because they are irrelevant.

No , you ignored them beacause they show that NATO is NOT defensive. That it is the global and often times illegal bullying tool of US/western hegemonic control of the world.

I get it. White people deserve a better deal and the darkies can just be made irrelevant

I never argued that NATO is perfect or that is has never been an aggressor.

Here we go. " Not perfect " nor a non " aggressor" etc etc but not war criminal material. You people do it virtually everytime. It's like the fur ball that gets stuck on your throats at the mention of it

NATO is necessary to protect European countries from Russian aggression. This is a statement of fact.

Maybe, NATO expansionism and aggression is a big part of the reason why Russia is being and has been aggressive, Even though you couldn't actually admit to the full extent of waht NATO acrually is,with vague and insiped references only reserved for your own, others DO see it for what it is, the bullying mechanism that shits all over peoples sovereignty around the world.

Iraq is a failed state, a desolate wasteland of factional fighting and chaos. That too is a " statement of fact" how did that happen? See these are what you people duck all day everyday and think others that don't duck it must be " apologists" for someone or other

It's pathetic.

 

[oneworld2]

While shouting "Ukraine Above All Others!" just like "Deutchland Uber Alles!"

They also marched on Zelenskys offices when he dared float the idea of elections in the Donbas. But they don't influence the political life in Ukraine , that's what everyone here forces themselves to believe in their black and white world view

 

[braindrain]

The problem is that you're so mentally lazy that you're not able to see the deeper reality on this whole situation.

Neo-Con deliberately overthrew pro-Kremlin govt in 2014, knowing that this would stir a hornet's nest. She deliberately supported a Far Right govt to replace it, knowing they'd adopt a hardline policy of going after Russians, which would lead to wider war.

I remember posting back in 2014 about what Nuland had done. You talk like some Johnny-Come-Lately who's only just learned where Ukraine is on a map.

No the problem is you take all Russian propaganda at face value and belief it 100%. That fact is painfully obvious.


There is nothing that happened in internal politics that would justify Russia invading Ukraine and taking over a sovereign country. Nothing. Russia is not Ukraines dad that has a right to control how they run their country.

And you talk like a Russian troll who gets all your talking points straight from Pravda and RT.

 

[oneworld2]

Whataboutism, 1 each

"Off topic, please desist from engaging in off topic discussions and read the subforum rules about strict adherence to the stated subject thx"

From a forum where it is actually a stated directive, but depending on the subject lol

I see you all went hysterical there too lol

 

[oneworld2]

BTW seems like he is a proper war whore anyhow

Arnie must only oppose illegal wars when the Russian leadership is engaging in them. Shocked ? Not at all

The governor of California trots out his most famous one-liner wherever he goes but, at the Victory military base in Baghdad today, he apparently meant it.

“I’ll be back,” Arnold Schwarzenegger growled after working out with a group of American soldiers on active duty in Iraq, all with necks and trunks as thick as his.

Arnold Schwarzenegger visits Iraq and aims to transfer military tactics to California

The governor of California trots out his most famous one-liner wherever he goes but, at the Victory military base in Baghdad today, he apparently meant it. “I’ll be back,” Arnold Schwarzenegger

www.thetimes.co.uk

Killing them dark folk in an illegal war seems just fine to him.

 

[Fledermaus]

From a forum where it is actually a stated directive, but depending on the subject lol

I see you all went hysterical there too lol

I see you are projecting again.

You were the one bleating about staying on topic.

And it is a general rule for the forum. "Another form of baiting is known as “derailing” or “thread-jacking.” This is the deliberate act of making statements with an aim of diverting the topic of a thread significantly from its main focus."

So your Whataboutism/derailing while in other threads whining about it is the epitome of hypocrisy.

 

[oneworld2]

I see you are projecting again.

Nope fail again

You were the one bleating about staying on topic.

In a forum where it is, allegedly, more strictly applicable. Nothing wrong with that and nothing that wasn't done earlier by others in different threads that were more pallitable to the hypocrites here

And it is a general rule for the forum. "Another form of baiting is known as “derailing” or “thread-jacking.” This is the deliberate act of making statements with an aim of diverting the topic of a thread significantly from its main focus."

So your Whataboutism/derailing while in other threads whining about it is the epitome of hypocrisy.

tell someone who cares and realize that people who denounce whataboutisms were crying like babies because they were not allowedd to do it themselves lol you included

 

[watsup]

In a forum where it is, allegedly, more strictly applicable. Nothing wrong with that and nothing that wasn't done earlier by others in different threads that were more pallitable to the hypocrites

I guess that’s you still refuse to admit that your were MISusing the Loft in order to hide from criticisms of your hateful rants,

 

[sanman]

No the problem is you take all Russian propaganda at face value and belief it 100%. That fact is painfully obvious.

No, the problem is you reflexively declare anything and everything to be Russian propaganda.
You now loudly declare "Russian soldiers are not 10 feet tall! This is a myth now being disproven!"
And yet you even more loudly peddle myths that Russian propagandists are 1000 feet tall.
"Putin is Loki!"

There is nothing that happened in internal politics that would justify Russia invading Ukraine and taking over a sovereign country. Nothing. Russia is not Ukraines dad that has a right to control how they run their country.

There is nothing that happened in internal politics that would justify America invading Iraq and taking over a sovereign country. Nothing. America is not Iraq's dad that has a right to control how they run their country. The American Empire is more dangerous than Putin, and has invaded far more places. Zelensky & Co know this, and that's why they want to bring the American Empire into their territory -- to set the stage for invading Russia.

But America is not going to do that right away. America is first going to fight the Russians in Ukraine -- using Ukrainians, of course -- the new Afghans. The Russians will be fought to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

And you talk like a Russian troll who gets all your talking points straight from Pravda and RT.

You talk like a Neo-Con troll who presumes we don't already have things far worse than Pravda called CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, Buzzfeed, etc -- and let's not forget Google, Twitter, etc.
Any of them put Pravda to shame, and show how backward and primitive it is.

Now thanks to Biden's Twerking TikTok Teens, we can learn that Putin's invasion has raised prices ever since the start of 2021.


(Wokesters can tell that Ellie is truthier, because she's got a bigger bustline and heavier makeup)

 

[lwf]

No , you ignored them beacause they show that NATO is NOT defensive. That it is the global and often times illegal bullying tool of US/western hegemonic control of the world.

I get it. White people deserve a better deal and the darkies can just be made irrelevant



Here we go. " Not perfect " nor a non " aggressor" etc etc but not war criminal material. You people do it virtually everytime. It's like the fur ball that gets stuck on your throats at the mention of it


Maybe, NATO expansionism and aggression is a big part of the reason why Russia is being and has been aggressive, Even though you couldn't actually admit to the full extent of waht NATO acrually is,with vague and insiped references only reserved for your own, others DO see it for what it is, the bullying mechanism that shits all over peoples sovereignty around the world.

Iraq is a failed state, a desolate wasteland of factional fighting and chaos. That too is a " statement of fact" how did that happen? See these are what you people duck all day everyday and think others that don't duck it must be " apologists" for someone or other

It's pathetic.

I'm not interested in arguing the merits of NATO or the war crimes it may or may not have committed. 4 weeks ago that argument became no longer relevant. For whatever else it is, NATO is now necessary to protect European countries from Russian aggression. For that reason alone, it should remain in place and any country that borders Russia who isn't a member ought to become one in good standing as soon as it possibly can. Failing to do so is now strategically foolish.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Arnold isn’t eligible to be POTUS. He’s not a native born American.

I KNOW....re-read what I said.
I realize there's no chance, because he is a naturalized citizen.
I'm just voicing my personal opinion on what I perceive as his sense of ethics and decency.
I realize the chance of him being elected POTUS is nil to none, and I said so above, I simply said that IF he WERE able to do a workaround SOMEHOW,
I'd definitely consider voting for him.

 

[sanman]

Much typing.

Much accusations.

Yet Svoboda the boogie man you fear so is a fraction of a percentage of the whole of Ukraine.

And the intent was to provoke Russia?

Blaming the victim of a crime for that crime is so pathetic.

The intent of American Neo-Cons was to provoke Russia -- I don't see how they're victims in any way from this.
They wanted to **** Russia, and Ukrainians were their convenient condoms for this.

NEOCONIC RUSSOPHOBIA | Small Wars Journal

After 75 years, the Cold War seems to be a permanent fixture of American foreign policy. Russia is still the nexus of allied angst. Never mind that Slavic communism has morphed into Russian capitalism. Moscow still enjoys pride of place for eight decades now in the American and NATO threat...

smallwarsjournal.com

And "Making peace" means there was conflict.

Does it not?

Conflict between Russia and Ukraine? Sure, the conflict that has been exacerbated and inflamed by needless provocative meddling from outside the region.

 

[Fledermaus]

The intent of American Neo-Cons was to provoke Russia -- I don't see how they're victims in any way from this.
They wanted to **** Russia, and Ukrainians were their convenient condoms for this.

NEOCONIC RUSSOPHOBIA | Small Wars Journal

After 75 years, the Cold War seems to be a permanent fixture of American foreign policy. Russia is still the nexus of allied angst. Never mind that Slavic communism has morphed into Russian capitalism. Moscow still enjoys pride of place for eight decades now in the American and NATO threat...

smallwarsjournal.com

Conflict between Russia and Ukraine? Sure, the conflict that has been exacerbated and inflamed by needless provocative meddling from outside the region.

More accusations that don't make any sense.

But, hey, who ever said Russian Propaganda had to be accurate.

 

[Fledermaus]

Nope (missing comma) fail again (missing period)


In a forum where it is, allegedly, more strictly applicable. Nothing wrong with that and nothing that wasn't done earlier by others in different threads that were more pallitable(sic) to the hypocrites here (missing period)


tell someone who cares and realize that people who denounce whataboutisms were crying like babies because they were not allowedd(sic) to do it themselves lol you included (missing period)

And another post exposing your hypocrisy as far as derailing goes.

 

[watsup]

Conflict between Russia and Ukraine? Sure, the conflict that has been exacerbated and inflamed by needless provocative meddling from outside the region.

I get it. Just look the other way while the evil madman Putin kills and destroys his way through Ukraine. Well okay then!

 

[oneworld2]

I guess that’s you still refuse to admit that your were MISusing the Loft in order to hide from criticisms of your hateful rants,

You're off topic lol

 

[oneworld2]

I don't even care that he'd vote in opposition to some policy changes I'd be in favor of, I don't care that he is a conservative, I don't even care that he's not a natural born citizen.
If Arnold ran for POTUS, as a Democrat, I might be persuaded to vote for him. He's a good and decent man, with the heart of an American, even if he's a transplant.

See if you can get Bruce Willis as his running partner lol

You people is just plain hollywood

 

[Tender Branson]

Apparently, his video is a big hit on Russian social media and trending.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

See if you can get Bruce Willis as his running partner lol

You people is just plain hollywood

Fundamental differences between the two that you're unable to comprehend.
Your butt-hurt over my simple statement that I "might be persuaded" compelled you to blow this up to straw man proportions.
Are you sure this isn't indirectly related to you making idiotic responses to me in other threads?

By the way, sorry you have a problem with Hollywood.

 

[watsup]

You're off topic lol

Ummm...YOU were talking about your constant claim of “off topic” in your Loft screed. I am merely following up, so you apparently have a double-standard between you and me. You have been going off topic in threads about Putin’s invasion of Ukraine with your whataboutism Putin propaganda for weeks, and then you decide to MISuse the Loft, not for “highbrow” thoughtful, and “lofty” discussion, but rather to hide behind its rules in order to develop a hateful long-term screed. Very cowardly, but now you’re back out here where you have to actually defend yourself. “Welcome back”. I suppose. Though it will just be more repetition of Putin propaganda whataboutism.

 

[Chagos]

I'm not interested in arguing the merits of NATO or the war crimes it may or may not have committed. 4 weeks ago that argument became no longer relevant. For whatever else it is, NATO is now necessary to protect European countries from Russian aggression. For that reason alone, it should remain in place and any country that borders Russia who isn't a member ought to become one in good standing as soon as it possibly can. Failing to do so is now strategically foolish.

Apart from which the argument that NATO should have disbanded when the Warsaw Pact did is intensely foolish. The latter disbanding by the decision of a bunch of its former members (by then sovereign) being hardly unable to wait in getting out, while NATO members decided, with just as much sovereignty, to not disband.

Not to mention the former Pact members above clambering aboard the NATO ship as fast as possible and with just as much sovereignty. For reasons that only those here trying to find excuses for the Kremlin refuse to admit.

 

[Chagos]

You're off topic lol

Annoying when others do that, eh?

 

[D_NATURED]

If people cannot realize that the USA administrations don't care about any peoples they claim to care about by now there really is no hope.

Gorbachev is just repeating what William Burns, the current CIA head, stated in 2008. What George Kennan stated in 1997. Everyone understands it except for the people here who don't even make cogent arguments to back up their rejectionism of it

I'm ****ing tired of the "every country sucks" argument to excuse the actions of the mob-state, Russia. The USA has a much more humane political model, even when bad actors contradict it, and doesn't deserve to be compared to an autocratic shit hole.

It's time for Americans to stop disempowering their own country by demanding it be perfect, and really comprehend, by witnessing the alternatives, how bad it could otherwise be.

The USA is still the last, best hope for humanity.