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Are you sure its the religion of Islam?

SKILMATIC said:
Actual was Iraq. However, Israel would be able to win any war becasue they are backed by us.

exactly my point
Israel is backed by us
iraq was the big dog on the arab/muslim block
fanatics declared war on us
we took them head on in afghanistan
than we took on the 'big dog on the block' to wake up the rest of them
we could exterminate/conquer every other country in teh ME in our effort to exterminate the extremism, or we could give them a wake up call, vis-a-vis IRAQ, and hope they join in the change

all i know is, when i grew up, if you are confronted by a group, you go after the biggest/strongest member, and hope that knocking him on his ass will deter the others

This is REALITY
 
SKILMATIC said:
In the Quran it teaches to kill and extrapulate the non beleiver or Allah. And again this is in their Quran. People are fed this kind of stuff from birth to present age and the people have a choice whethor or not they want to remain passive in their teachings or active(meaning do something about it which woull dbe terrorism). Now in their terms what they are doing isnt terror. It is a "holy war." Which they feel is ok because it is an order from their "god".

Now there of course is alot more to it, but that's basically the foundation of it.

Yup. On the surface, Islam is somewhat peaceful, but when taken too literally, like any other religion, it can lead to fanatism. From what I've read in the Koran, their prophet considers women "inferior", and instructs his followers to beat women who do not obey. And it instructs the use of firearms to teach the "infidels" a lesson.
 
kal-el said:
Yup. On the surface, Islam is somewhat peaceful, but when taken too literally, like any other religion, it can lead to fanatism. From what I've read in the Koran, their prophet considers women "inferior", and instructs his followers to beat women who do not obey. And it instructs the use of firearms to teach the "infidels" a lesson.


Add this religion to a civilization that has been left behind by history and you have one hell of a huge problem. Extremism is where the futureless masses are looking for answers.
 
GySgt said:
Add this religion to a civilization that has been left behind by history and you have one hell of a huge problem. Extremism is where the futureless masses are looking for answers.

Yes, the civilazation sure dosen't help the problem any. That's part of the reason why I think religion that teaches hate, violence, and superiority over women be banned.
 
GySgt said:
The history of Islam is not relevent to today's violence and when our politicians or well meaning ignorant ideologists say that Islam is not the problem - they are utterly wrong.

Our focus on the Middle East over the decades has been so exclusive that the majority has come to see Islam as defined by the Arab. But the Islam of the Middle East is as fixed, as unreflective, and ultimately as brittle as concrete. People don’t realize that Islam is the youngest of the world’s great religions, that it is still very much a work-in-progress on its vast frontiers, and that its forms are at least as various as the countless confessions and sects of Christendom. Islam is a vivid, dynamic, and vibrant religion of changing shape and potential. But Islam’s local identities are far from decided in its struggling borderlands, and, in times of tumult, any religion can turn toward the darkness as easily as toward the light. This struggle between religious forms and between prescriptive and repressive doctrine of faiths, is one of the two great strategic issues of our time—along with the redefinition of the socio-economic roles of women, their transition from being the property of men to being equal partners with men (which is the most profound social development in human history).

The hard-core terrorists spawned by the breakdown of the Middle East quote the Koran. They wear Muslim garments. They perform the daily rituals prescribed by the faith into which they were born. But all of us, in the West and the Middle East, have mistaken the identity of these butchers. They are not simply “rogues” of Islam. This is a civilization. We live in an age of change so profound that entire cultures cannot cope with the stress. We are dealing with a region of people who seek to blame anyone but themselves for the ruin of their societies that they themselves have created. They seek answers to why the enemies of "Allah" have prospered when they have not. The Perversion of Islam that exists in the Middle East is a symptom of decay. Saddam, Bin Ladden, Khomeini, Khudafi, etc are all symptoms of decay. Preventing as many attacks as we can, killing or capturing terrorists, destroying terrorist organizations - are essential goals, but they focus on surface tumors while ignoring the cancer beneath. It is possible to recognize that the majority of the lower-rank terrorists whose lives their overlords throw away so callously have been set up psychologically by the corruption and hopelessness of their societies.

In the decaying Arab world, Islam is the problem—because of the way bitter old men interpret and deform its more humane precepts while embracing its cruelest injunctions. The accusations leveled against us by greedy and embittered men fall upon the ears of those anxious for someone to blame for the ruin of their societies, for the local extermination of opportunities, and for the poverty guaranteed by the brute corruption of their compatriots and the selfish choices of their own leaders to remain in power. Islam certainly is not hateful in its essence—but a disproportionate number of its current adherents need to hate to avoid the agony of self-knowledge. Religious intolerance always returns in times of doubt and disorder. Fundamentalist terrorism has not arisen despite the progress the world has made, but because of it. Despite the lucrative resource the Arab elite hoards from their people, the Middle East has no competitive front with the western world. There is not one single world class university, a complete restriction of the free flow of information, rampant racism and bigotry, complete inequality, and the subjegation of women. The populations of the Middle East blew it. They've failed. In times of trouble, men and women cling to what they know. They seek simple answers to daunting complexities - And religious extremists around the world, in every major religion throughout history, have been delighted to provide those simple answers. It does not matter if those answers are true, so long as they shift blame from the believer’s shoulders and promise punishment to enemies, real or imagined. History has seen human beings react to cultural crises by fleeing into cults that sought revenge. Recently, after the bombings, a Jordanian Muslim said that, "He supported Al-Queda's fight against Americans in Iraq, because America and Israel are their enemy." He then said that, "When Al-Queda started targetting Muslims, he stopped supporting them because he could not understand it." In other words, it was OK and encouraged as long as they were merely killing American civilians. Instead of returning to a "pure" Islam, the terrorists from this civilization are building a blood cult, a deformed offshoot of their faith that revives the most primitive and grotesque of religious practices that many other religions have partaken throughout history. This crisis has never been as intense as in the Middle East, where treasured values and inherited behaviors simply do not work in the 21st century.

This is where terrorism has been bred and this is what this "War on Terror" is about. Now, how does any President "declare war" on this? Keep in mind....we and the rest of the world, still need their oil.

This is a good and very informitive post.
Iraq is in the larger scheme of things most definitely the major front in this JUST war. This is not by chance, but rather design, so for those who look for our complete and total pullout, well I am afraid they are in for a long time disappointment. Oil is key but strategic positioning is even more so. Iran is rougue and vile. They must be dealt with soon.
 
DeeJayH said:
exactly my point
Israel is backed by us
iraq was the big dog on the arab/muslim block
fanatics declared war on us
we took them head on in afghanistan
than we took on the 'big dog on the block' to wake up the rest of them
we could exterminate/conquer every other country in teh ME in our effort to exterminate the extremism, or we could give them a wake up call, vis-a-vis IRAQ, and hope they join in the change

all i know is, when i grew up, if you are confronted by a group, you go after the biggest/strongest member, and hope that knocking him on his ass will deter the others

This is REALITY

This is the point that mental disorders(aka liberals) dont understand.

Very well presented deejay.

Yup. On the surface, Islam is somewhat peaceful, but when taken too literally, like any other religion, it can lead to fanatism. From what I've read in the Koran, their prophet considers women "inferior", and instructs his followers to beat women who do not obey. And it instructs the use of firearms to teach the "infidels" a lesson.

You are absolutely right. This is in no way civility and the way life should be lived. There should be kindness and ferverence to our neighbors. Women should be treated like queens and with much respect. Unless they mouth off then you break out your pimp hand. Because mine is waay strong. :lol:

However, this is what they are taught how to treat their own women. Do you really think they will show any kindness to soemone who they have been taught to be the enemy and heathens? I think not.

Yes, the civilazation sure dosen't help the problem any. That's part of the reason why I think religion that teaches hate, violence, and superiority over women be banned.

Well thats not a religion thats a tyrannical regime.
 
DivineComedy said:
It is all about trust!
.


Yeah and as long as we trust some long dead crazy old pedophile and his screwed up brother in law and his son to think for us we are going to have problems.
 
Apostle13 said:
This is a good and very informitive post.
Iraq is in the larger scheme of things most definitely the major front in this JUST war. This is not by chance, but rather design, so for those who look for our complete and total pullout, well I am afraid they are in for a long time disappointment. Oil is key but strategic positioning is even more so. Iran is rougue and vile. They must be dealt with soon.

Thanks. I have a plethora of things to say on this issue.
 
kal-el said:

Too simplistic, my caped loving friend.

Religion isn't the problem persay. The problem is man's perversion of it. Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century. Human history is largely a violent contest of gods and the men who served them, and our age is the latest, intense serial in a saga that shaped our earliest myths. When a civilization of people is faced with change that affects their core beliefs in which they have grounded their lives, they must defend it. Religions change, because men change them. In today's age of religion, peace is largely in control. Man has given over his barbaric needs to defend his beliefs through violence and has embraced that science does not necessarily mean an end to God. It actually offers a better understanding.

However, this is where we find our great seperation between the Middle East and the rest of the world. They have truly been left behind by history. On its frontiers, Islam remains capable of the changes necessary to make it, once again, a healthy, luminous faith whose followers can compete globally on its own terms. But the hard men from that religion’s ancient homelands are determined to frustrate every exploratory effort they can. The Muslim extremist from the Middle East has one consistent message: Return to the past, for that is what God wants. Beware, no matter his faith, of the man who presumes to tell you what God wants. It cannot be accomplished, of course, this longed-for return to a golden age of sanctity and success, that is mostly myth, is gone. But the bloody-handed terrorists and their mentors are determined to pay any price to frustrate those Muslims who believe that God is capable of smiling, or that it is possible to change the earth without challenging Heaven.
 
Want to see a graphic example of what the non-Muslim world is up against? Want to see why Iraq is the centerpiece in the war against terror?
Want to see why you/we cannot consider Iraq in isolation?
Want to see why a democracy (even if imperfect) in the ME is very, very important?

If so, just watch this clip from Iranian TV:

clip from Iranian TV

How are we supposed to feel about Iran when we watch such a call for mass murders?

Jerusalem, Baghdad, New York or Madrid or any other city in this world are all cities that are vulnerable to the rule of the Imam/Caliphate in the ideology of the Mullahs or al-Qaeda.

The glorification and mass-marketing of martyrdom. By a faction of a religion that has actively sought nuclear weapons.
 
oldreliable67 said:
Want to see a graphic example of what the non-Muslim world is up against? Want to see why Iraq is the centerpiece in the war against terror?
Want to see why you/we cannot consider Iraq in isolation?
Want to see why a democracy (even if imperfect) in the ME is very, very important?

If so, just watch this clip from Iranian TV:

clip from Iranian TV

How are we supposed to feel about Iran when we watch such a call for mass murders?

Jerusalem, Baghdad, New York or Madrid or any other city in this world are all cities that are vulnerable to the rule of the Imam/Caliphate in the ideology of the Mullahs or al-Qaeda.

The glorification and mass-marketing of martyrdom. By a faction of a religion that has actively sought nuclear weapons.

Lies, slander, misrepresentations, defamation from a Bushnevik
right wing propaganda is all that is
Neo-Con drivel in its worst form

was the sarcasm thick enough?
 
DJ,

One question for you: did you watch the clip from Iranian TV?

Ralph Peters, a retired Army officer, former instructor at the War College and author of 19 books and many papers on strategy and warfighting, wrote "When Devils Walk The Earth: The Mentality and Roots of Terrorism, and How to Respond". The following are a couple of key points:

The health of any religious community can be gauged by the degree to which it rejects these bloody apostles of terror, and the Islamic world’s acceptance of apocalyptic terrorists as heroes is perhaps the most profound indicator of its spiritual crisis and decay. Make no mistake: The terrorist “martyrs” of September 11th, 2001, and Osama bin Laden will be remembered by Islamic historians and by generation after generation of Muslim children as great heroes in the struggle for true religion and justice—no matter what Islamic governments may say to please us, many millions of Muslims around the world felt tremendous pride in the atrocities in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. This makes it all the more vital that the United States kill Osama bin Laden, exterminate al Qa’eda, destroy the Taliban, and depose any other governments found to have supported their terrorism. If Osama bin Laden survives to thumb his nose at an “impotent superpower,” he will attract hundreds of thousands of supporters, and tens of millions more sympathizers. He is already a hero, and he must not be allowed to remain a
triumphant one. An apocalyptic terrorist of the worst kind, his superficial agenda (deposing the government of Saudi Arabia, expelling U.S. troops from the Middle East, imposing Sharia law) is nothing compared to his compulsion to slaughter and destroy.

We still fail to recognize that the atrocities of September 11th, 2001, composed the most successful—and dramatic—achievement of the Islamic world against the West in centuries, greater than the Ottoman victory at Gallipoli, the establishment of Arab states, the nationalization of the Suez Canal, or the Iranian Counter-Revolution of 1979. It was a great day in Muslim history, and it will be remembered as such, no matter what
tribulations we visit upon the terrorist networks and their state accomplices in retaliation.

Never accept the consensus of the Washington intelligentsia, which looks backward to past failures, not forward to future successes..


Source is here.

So, DJ, I wasn't aware that Iranian TV was an outlet for 'right wing propaganda'. Thats a pretty good trick, getting neo-con stuff on TV in a country whose Pres wants to "wipe us [along with Israel] off the map". How do you think that was accomplished?
 
oldreliable67 said:
Want to see a graphic example of what the non-Muslim world is up against? Want to see why Iraq is the centerpiece in the war against terror?
Want to see why you/we cannot consider Iraq in isolation?
Want to see why a democracy (even if imperfect) in the ME is very, very important?

If so, just watch this clip from Iranian TV:

clip from Iranian TV

How are we supposed to feel about Iran when we watch such a call for mass murders?

Jerusalem, Baghdad, New York or Madrid or any other city in this world are all cities that are vulnerable to the rule of the Imam/Caliphate in the ideology of the Mullahs or al-Qaeda.

The glorification and mass-marketing of martyrdom. By a faction of a religion that has actively sought nuclear weapons.


I've seen other videos like this run on Al-Jazeera for years now. Well, before the invasion of Iraq. What's sad is how the western world continues to sleep through it by clinging desperately to what is "politically correct." Our enemy is a civilization and our destruction will deliver them to their God. "The War on Terror is a fabrication." Every time I read or hear this by the appeasing fools of our world, I see strength in our enemies.
 
Gunny,

This clip from Iranian TV was quite an eye-opener for me. I had heard allusions to such on Al Jazeera et al, but heretofore had imagined them as some roughly produced, grainy, amatuerish gibberish. This is far from it. I wonder if it wouldn't be a bit of a wake-up call to more Americans, who, like me, might recognize that there is a problem but are only just becoming aware of exactly how serious and how globally-encompassing the war on terror really is - 'Global War on Terror' does indeed accurately describe the situation.
 
oldreliable67 said:
DJ,

One question for you: did you watch the clip from Iranian TV?

Ralph Peters, a retired Army officer, former instructor at the War College and author of 19 books and many papers on strategy and warfighting, wrote "When Devils Walk The Earth: The Mentality and Roots of Terrorism, and How to Respond". The following are a couple of key points:

The health of any religious community can be gauged by the degree to which it rejects these bloody apostles of terror, and the Islamic world’s acceptance of apocalyptic terrorists as heroes is perhaps the most profound indicator of its spiritual crisis and decay. Make no mistake: The terrorist “martyrs” of September 11th, 2001, and Osama bin Laden will be remembered by Islamic historians and by generation after generation of Muslim children as great heroes in the struggle for true religion and justice—no matter what Islamic governments may say to please us, many millions of Muslims around the world felt tremendous pride in the atrocities in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. This makes it all the more vital that the United States kill Osama bin Laden, exterminate al Qa’eda, destroy the Taliban, and depose any other governments found to have supported their terrorism. If Osama bin Laden survives to thumb his nose at an “impotent superpower,” he will attract hundreds of thousands of supporters, and tens of millions more sympathizers. He is already a hero, and he must not be allowed to remain a
triumphant one. An apocalyptic terrorist of the worst kind, his superficial agenda (deposing the government of Saudi Arabia, expelling U.S. troops from the Middle East, imposing Sharia law) is nothing compared to his compulsion to slaughter and destroy.

We still fail to recognize that the atrocities of September 11th, 2001, composed the most successful—and dramatic—achievement of the Islamic world against the West in centuries, greater than the Ottoman victory at Gallipoli, the establishment of Arab states, the nationalization of the Suez Canal, or the Iranian Counter-Revolution of 1979. It was a great day in Muslim history, and it will be remembered as such, no matter what
tribulations we visit upon the terrorist networks and their state accomplices in retaliation.

Never accept the consensus of the Washington intelligentsia, which looks backward to past failures, not forward to future successes..


Source is here.

So, DJ, I wasn't aware that Iranian TV was an outlet for 'right wing propaganda'. Thats a pretty good trick, getting neo-con stuff on TV in a country whose Pres wants to "wipe us [along with Israel] off the map". How do you think that was accomplished?


I love Colonel Peters. You won't find a more insightful individual with regards to the Middle East. By the way, DJ was being sarcastic to what the global left would say. He does believe in current events.
 
oldreliable67 said:
Gunny,

This clip from Iranian TV was quite an eye-opener for me. I had heard allusions to such on Al Jazeera et al, but heretofore had imagined them as some roughly produced, grainy, amatuerish gibberish. This is far from it. I wonder if it wouldn't be a bit of a wake-up call to more Americans, who, like me, might recognize that there is a problem but are only just becoming aware of exactly how serious and how globally-encompassing the war on terror really is - 'Global War on Terror' does indeed accurately describe the situation.


Yes it does. People don't realize that President Bush is taking a lot of heat for listening to what experts have been screaming about for two decades to deaf ears in our government. These people are blind to the threat, as they look only for concrete WMD as a danger to their lives.
 
Gunny and DJ,

Sorry, DJ was too subtle for me. Remember, I'm just an old grunt trigger-puller. Gotta spell stuff out for me! :cool:
 
oldreliable67 said:
Gunny and DJ,

Sorry, DJ was too subtle for me. Remember, I'm just an old grunt trigger-puller. Gotta spell stuff out for me! :cool:


You're more intelligent than you lead on. You seem to share a common knowledge base for current events with me and since I am highly intelligent it stands to reason that you would be too.:cool:
 
akyron said:
Yeah and as long as we trust some long dead crazy old pedophile and his screwed up brother in law and his son to think for us we are going to have problems.

The West had its problems too, and there are still Royal families in Europe to the embarrassment of the West. The so-called Christianity of the time of the rise of Islam was not beneficial to the rise of democracy, and it was a joke, for it had a Pontiff held over from the decadent Roman Empire created by the perverted Constantine. It was an individualistic streak from different denominations that Christians in this country were able to draw upon that allowed for the creation of this nation.

So the simple fact that there are different sects reading the exact same Book can actually be a positive thing. Just as God will judge between the Christian and the Jew as it says in [2.113] of the Koran, isn’t there something really intelligent to be learned in that example to tell the Shiite the Sunni that “Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ?”

To claim that a believer should not be enfranchised to vote should be an insult, after all I thought they claim believers are led by Allah and that belief is the firmest handle that can‘t break off? If Osama and Muslim Brotherhood can’t trust the people to vote it must be because one side or the other are not really believers. The unbelievers hide behind women‘s skirts when they cause mischief in the land, and they are Al Quacka that go by the names of Hamas and Hezbolah…

I still have to believe that that democracy in the Middle East is possible. It is our only hope.
 
oldreliable67 said:
DJ,

One question for you: did you watch the clip from Iranian TV?

Ralph Peters, a retired Army officer, former instructor at the War College and author of 19 books and many papers on strategy and warfighting, wrote "When Devils Walk The Earth: The Mentality and Roots of Terrorism, and How to Respond". The following are a couple of key points:

The health of any religious community can be gauged by the degree to which it rejects these bloody apostles of terror, and the Islamic world’s acceptance of apocalyptic terrorists as heroes is perhaps the most profound indicator of its spiritual crisis and decay. Make no mistake: The terrorist “martyrs” of September 11th, 2001, and Osama bin Laden will be remembered by Islamic historians and by generation after generation of Muslim children as great heroes in the struggle for true religion and justice—no matter what Islamic governments may say to please us, many millions of Muslims around the world felt tremendous pride in the atrocities in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. This makes it all the more vital that the United States kill Osama bin Laden, exterminate al Qa’eda, destroy the Taliban, and depose any other governments found to have supported their terrorism. If Osama bin Laden survives to thumb his nose at an “impotent superpower,” he will attract hundreds of thousands of supporters, and tens of millions more sympathizers. He is already a hero, and he must not be allowed to remain a
triumphant one. An apocalyptic terrorist of the worst kind, his superficial agenda (deposing the government of Saudi Arabia, expelling U.S. troops from the Middle East, imposing Sharia law) is nothing compared to his compulsion to slaughter and destroy.

We still fail to recognize that the atrocities of September 11th, 2001, composed the most successful—and dramatic—achievement of the Islamic world against the West in centuries, greater than the Ottoman victory at Gallipoli, the establishment of Arab states, the nationalization of the Suez Canal, or the Iranian Counter-Revolution of 1979. It was a great day in Muslim history, and it will be remembered as such, no matter what
tribulations we visit upon the terrorist networks and their state accomplices in retaliation.

Never accept the consensus of the Washington intelligentsia, which looks backward to past failures, not forward to future successes..

Source is here.

So, DJ, I wasn't aware that Iranian TV was an outlet for 'right wing propaganda'. Thats a pretty good trick, getting neo-con stuff on TV in a country whose Pres wants to "wipe us [along with Israel] off the map". How do you think that was accomplished?

:2rofll:
you rubber
my response was sarcastic
maybe if you read the last line you would have noticed that
it was a commentary on how the Dems/libs would rrespond
so put it back in the holster cowboy
 
GySgt said:
I love Colonel Peters. You won't find a more insightful individual with regards to the Middle East. By the way, DJ was being sarcastic to what the global left would say. He does believe in current events.

now i feel like i should have kept on reading before i posted
yest that is true, i was being WAY Sarcastic
talk about Friendly Fire :2rofll:
 
DeeJayH said:
now i feel like i should have kept on reading before i posted
yest that is true, i was being WAY Sarcastic
talk about Friendly Fire :2rofll:

Friendly fire is only good when you hit a broken d!ck thats a moron. :lol:
 
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