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Are we powerless?

MaggieD

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What really IS the answer to taking back control of our government? I've never felt more powerless than I do today. The same people with the same mindsets keep getting elected over and over again and nothing much changes. A republican (small "r") government works if the elected officials are working in the best interests of their constituents. But they aren't. Both Democrats and Republicans are working in their own best interests. And, assuming that, we aren't much different than a dictatorship...where the very few dictate absolutely to the very many.

The majority of people want term limits. Not going to happen. The majority of people want a tougher stance on immigration. Not going to happen. The majority of people want the government to stop spending like drunken sailors. Not going to happen. Ad infinitum.

Has nothing to do with party affiliation or whether one's politics are left or right. Has everything to do with the American people have lost control of their government.

Is there an answer? Or is it hopeless?
 

lizzie

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Imo, it's not hopeless, but it will take further decline in our economic status. We will have to reach a breaking point to bring about any kind of sanity in DC, because our leaders are like addicts, as are many in the general population. When you try to live outside of reality, reality comes to call.:)
 

MaggieD

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Imo, it's not hopeless, but it will take further decline in our economic status. We will have to reach a breaking point to bring about any kind of sanity in DC, because our leaders are like addicts, as are many in the general population. When you try to live outside of reality, reality comes to call.:)
Then what is the answer?
 

spud_meister

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you're powerless as long as the two party system is in place, abolish that, and then there is a sense of accountability, that their party may not actually get elected again due to their actions.
 

MaggieD

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you're powerless as long as the two party system is in place, abolish that, and then there is a sense of accountability, that their party may not actually get elected again due to their actions.
Not long ago, I came to the conclusion that "voting the bums out" was a possible solution. You know, voting against every encumbant. Not that I thought it would work, but that it would, if embraced by enough people, send a strong enough message to Congress to do some good. But it seems that we, as a people, can't really agree on anything that will make a real difference.

So we just keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. According to Einstein, that's the perfect definition of insanity.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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What really IS the answer to taking back control of our government? I've never felt more powerless than I do today. The same people with the same mindsets keep getting elected over and over again and nothing much changes. A republican (small "r") government works if the elected officials are working in the best interests of their constituents. But they aren't. Both Democrats and Republicans are working in their own best interests. And, assuming that, we aren't much different than a dictatorship...where the very few dictate absolutely to the very many.

The majority of people want term limits. Not going to happen. The majority of people want a tougher stance on immigration. Not going to happen. The majority of people want the government to stop spending like drunken sailors. Not going to happen. Ad infinitum.

Has nothing to do with party affiliation or whether one's politics are left or right. Has everything to do with the American people have lost control of their government.

Is there an answer? Or is it hopeless?
We have become the mobocrary, we were warned against.
Cronyism, general corruption and the wrong self interest have infect the whole system.

In my opinion, it is the slow decline that we should expect.
Sucks but we can't be #1 forever. :shrug:
 

lizzie

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Then what is the answer?
There is no answer but to let it take its natural course until it must change. We have brought ourselves to the point that government is out of control because we have collectively become uneducated, greedy, and dependent. Don't mistake my views as apathy, because nothing is further from the truth. I just recognize the seriousness of the situation, and I know what it will take to fix it. As long as the general population remains childish and expects to be taken care of, we will vote in leaders who promise to do just that. It's a self-limiting problem.
 

MaggieD

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We have become the mobocrary, we were warned against.
Cronyism, general corruption and the wrong self interest have infect the whole system.

In my opinion, it is the slow decline that we should expect.
Sucks but we can't be #1 forever. :shrug:
Not sure about the mobocracy part because I don't thing the masses have any control. Maybe I don't understand your use of the word. "Cronyism....etc." -- that I agree with. Your last sentence is very sad.
 

MaggieD

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There is no answer but to let it take its natural course until it must change. We have brought ourselves to the point that government is out of control because we have collectively become uneducated, greedy, and dependent. Don't mistake my views as apathy, because nothing is further from the truth. I just recognize the seriousness of the situation, and I know what it will take to fix it. As long as the general population remains childish and expects to be taken care of, we will vote in leaders who promise to do just that. It's a self-limiting problem.
It is serious, Lizzie. I totally agree. We've become dependent on the nanny state -- and have been very carefully engineered to be so. My signature line says it all, in my opinion: "Those who rob from Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's support."
 

lizzie

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So we just keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. According to Einstein, that's the perfect definition of insanity.
Now, you're getting it.:):mrgreen:
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Not sure about the mobocracy part because I don't thing the masses have any control. Maybe I don't understand your use of the word. "Cronyism....etc." -- that I agree with. Your last sentence is very sad.
Well people, in general, are incredibly reactionary and not very well read when it comes to making political choices.
They usually go with the response to appeals to emotion.
It produces a system much like ours.

It's incredibly sad, that's the only conclusion I can come up with though.
Changing the ship, that is the thought process of America, is nearly impossible in such a short time.
 

lizzie

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My advice: Vote every time you can, and always be prepared for tough times.
 

MaggieD

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Well people, in general, are incredibly reactionary and not very well read when it comes to making political choices.
They usually go with the response to appeals to emotion.
It produces a system much like ours.

It's incredibly sad, that's the only conclusion I can come up with though.
Changing the ship, that is the thought process of America, is nearly impossible in such a short time.
We call ourselves a republic. We aren't. We are manipulated by those in power to keep them in power. Manipulated because no one can wade through the tangled webs our legislature designs. And because we're all so busy living our lives we can't possibly wrap our arms around the truth. Of course, it's not just at the federal level. It happens right in our own towns.
 

Redress

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What really IS the answer to taking back control of our government? I've never felt more powerless than I do today. The same people with the same mindsets keep getting elected over and over again and nothing much changes. A republican (small "r") government works if the elected officials are working in the best interests of their constituents. But they aren't. Both Democrats and Republicans are working in their own best interests. And, assuming that, we aren't much different than a dictatorship...where the very few dictate absolutely to the very many.

The majority of people want term limits. Not going to happen. The majority of people want a tougher stance on immigration. Not going to happen. The majority of people want the government to stop spending like drunken sailors. Not going to happen. Ad infinitum.

Has nothing to do with party affiliation or whether one's politics are left or right. Has everything to do with the American people have lost control of their government.

Is there an answer? Or is it hopeless?
The problem is in you, not the government. You can vote every 2 years for part of the people in our government. You can work to change the entire set of elected officials within any 6 years. We, the people in this country, choose the officials who represent us. Don't like what they are doing? Then get up and work to get new people who will do what you want elected.

Shifting the blame is a popular, feel good message, but that is all it is, shifting the blame away from where it belongs. If you don't like the people in office, you did not work hard enough to get the ones you do want elected.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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We call ourselves a republic. We aren't. We are manipulated by those in power to keep them in power. Manipulated because no one can wade through the tangled webs our legislature designs. And because we're all so busy living our lives we can't possibly wrap our arms around the truth. Of course, it's not just at the federal level. It happens right in our own towns.
Oh I agree, we have largely left the ideals of a representative republic behind.
People think national uniformity and centralization are good things.
Just not true.
Probably a little to political for the intent of your thread.

We are a rich nation, nearly everyone in the U.S. is wealthy compared to the rest of the world.
With that comes laziness and apathy.
 
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MaggieD

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Oh I agree, we have largely left the ideals of a representative republic behind.
People think national uniformity and centralization are good things.
Just not true.
Probably a little to political for the intent of your thread.

We are a rich nation, nearly everyone in the U.S. is wealthy compared to the rest of the world.
With that comes laziness and apathy.
Yes, and even if we aren't apathetic, there's nothing we can do. I write letters to and call my representatives, write letters to the editor, vote. In the end, it makes no difference because we really don't have representation. It's all a carefully planned and executed charade.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Yes, and even if we aren't apathetic, there's nothing we can do. I write letters to and call my representatives, write letters to the editor, vote. In the end, it makes no difference because we really don't have representation. It's all a carefully planned and executed charade.
The numbers tell me that there are more people who vote based on emotion rather than research and logical reasoning.
So even if you aren't apathetic, you could be doing all the wrong things because of your reasoning. (Of course not you specifically, the general you.)

There is to a degree careful planning to get these desired results.
Politics has become marketing fluff.
 

Tucker Case

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Not only are we powerless on that scale, we are completely and totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

That goes beyond just the individual. The entire country, hell the entire planet, is insignificant when one views things from a universal perspective.

I've come to terms with the monstrous futility of existence, and thus I find pleasure and hope in the fact that I can help change and improve the insignificant things I've decided deserve personal significance.

My family, my friends, the people I interact with directly. It's all about the little things.

So at this point, I really don't waste time on the futility of trying to alter an unalterable system. If I were to put forth too much effort trying to change the world, I'd become lost in a sea of hopelessness.

That's not so say that we do not have power. We have the power to influence those within our sphere of influence. I derive hope and meaning in my life by using the power I do have instead of pining for the power I can't have.
 

MaggieD

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Not only are we powerless on that scale, we are completely and totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

That goes beyond just the individual. The entire country, hell the entire planet, is insignificant when one views things from a universal perspective.

I've come to terms with the monstrous futility of existence, and thus I find pleasure and hope in the fact that I can help change and improve the insignificant things I've decided deserve personal significance.

My family, my friends, the people I interact with directly. It's all about the little things.

So at this point, I really don't waste time on the futility of trying to alter an unalterable system. If I were to put forth too much effort trying to change the world, I'd become lost in a sea of hopelessness.

That's not so say that we do not have power. We have the power to influence those within our sphere of influence. I derive hope and meaning in my life by using the power I do have instead of pining for the power I can't have.
You're reminding me of Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I'll bet you read the book, too. Your "We have the power to influence those within our sphere..." is right out of it. Think I'll pull it out again. Think I've read it five times.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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You're reminding me of Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I'll bet you read the book, too. Your "We have the power to influence those within our sphere..." is right out of it. Think I'll pull it out again. Think I've read it five times.
Tucky's absolutely right.

Once you come to the conclusion, that there is nothing you can do on that stage, there is something you can do on your personal stage of life.
Be good to those that are around you and are good to you.
The friends and family that you love.

Those people should be there no matter which way the political winds turn.
 

Ikari

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you're powerless as long as the two party system is in place, abolish that, and then there is a sense of accountability, that their party may not actually get elected again due to their actions.
To do that you need to radically change the way elections are won. Because we have a more "winner takes all" sort of system, it favors two main parties. What we can do instead is to include third parties and maybe move to an instant runoff voting system. The third parties are important, however, even in a two party dominated system as the third parties are the servos we use to control and restrict the other parties.

If there is only two, they become isolated from the People, as the Republocrats have done. They no longer fear losing power because they can just teeter totter back and forth. That's why the Republocrats have become the party of the status quo. Because we've set the system up to make it incredibly hard for anyone but the Republocrats (and maybe independently wealthy individuals) to run, we've lost the mechanism we could have used to threaten the Republocrat's power base. However, with it you can make actual change.

The voting is now pretty well even. Half the people don't vote, of the other half, nearly half votes Republican and the other half votes Democrat. Pretty stupid, essentially 1/4 of the population picks the President, but that's what we've done so that's what we get. So the winner is essentially working off the "noise", the maybe independents or whomever that don't vote a static party, things like that. So in the end the voting is always 50/50 + noise, and whoever captures the noise captures the election. So third parties don't even really need to win, all they have to do is mess with the "noise". If the Republicans become too much like the Democrats say, many of their people can vote Libertarian and the numbers will show the loss. If the Republicans want to win ever again, they'll have to move in such a way as to recapture those votes. Same with the Democrats. That's why the third parties are so important and why we shouldn't shun them or ignore them or not allow them to participate.

This is a democratic Republic, and it's high time we act like it. There's no reason the government should tell us there's only two choice. But that's essentially what they do when they won't let third parties play their reindeer games. It's our government, our Republic, and we should be presented with all the choices. Or at least a fair number of the choices. It may not be possible to include everyone, but nothing says that it has to be just two. That was the Republocrats right there, and that was to protect their power. So **** them, who are they to tell us what to do? We are the People, and we hold ALL the power.
 

Ikari

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If only it were that simple!!!! Ha!
It is essentially that easy if you are willing to perform your duty as a freeman to the Republic through militia service.
 

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We got guns, don't we?
Oh, no! Don't think in this way. A good brain is always more powerful than a gun (not in every case, but in general). If you think you have gun, don't forget, they have that, too, plus tanks, missles, jet fighters, H-bomb...
 
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