Are we about to have an "Atlas Shrugged" moment?

[KevinKohler]

I thought we were doing fairly well until the socialists came along.

I wish time travel were possible...just so I could send you back to the 1800's, and early 1900's....and then bounce back and pick you up 20 years in...if you lived that long...so you could tell us how much better things were. Your statement is so ignorant as to be trolling, and I don't think your intent was to troll. Which means you truly don't, won't, or can't comprehend just how completely wrong you are.

Let me guess...then time period you are refering to, this magical, socialist free time....is in the 1950s? 60s?

 

[upsideguy]

I thought we were doing fairly well until the socialists came along.

I have no idea where you get that idea (its probably 'just you'). Perhaps you should be more specific rather than making statements of gross generalization. Start with "what socialists showed up". I actually do not think you can find an economy which is pure capitalism (maybe Somalia) or socialism....

A society is a bit like a shower: it needs the right mixture of hot and cold water (or socialism, if you will and capitalism) to be effective. The economies that work the best have elements of each. There are several 1st world economies doing a much better job for their citizens than the US. Each of those economies have a few more tablespoons of socialism in their recipe than we have.

 

[KevinKohler]

If all the ultra wealthy left (to where, the moon?), it's not as if their companies would go with them. So, would they still own their companies? What, would they just lay everyone off? I hope their wealth isn't in the form of stock...they'd be pretty poor pretty quick.

No, the ultra wealthy are so only because WE allow it, and only at our BEHEST. Don't want Jeff Bezos to be rich? The solution is quite simple...don't use amazon. I don't. To this day, I can say that I have not ordered or sold a single thing on amazon. Don't want Bill Gates to be rich? Then stop buying his crap. Run linux. In today's day and age, we, the majority, are far more powerful than we have ever been in any other point in history. We wield more power than the most powerful of empires from 1,000, or even 500 years ago.

 

[j brown's body]

In that lengthy and often prescient novel, set in a near future dystopian semi-socialist America, many capitalists decide to abandon their enterprises leaving the government to scavenge the corpses of their companies instead bleeding off their profits for their own use.

Famine and civil war ensue.

Now we have a similar opting out, not by capitalists but by professionals not willing to comply with vaccine requirements. Right now nurses and likely airline pilots, but more to follow as the mandates grow.

It will be hard to measure the effect of these walkouts, especially if they are not reported as such. But we will see a reduction in availability and quality of professional services.

Combine that with possible government "shutdowns" and i say if you're not a prepper what are you waiting for?

Like Ayn Rand fans, their numbers aren't matched by their enthusiasm.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Wow!

How far back in my posting history did you go back for that blast from the past?

USMB

 

[Loulit01]

If all the ultra wealthy left (to where, the moon?), it's not as if their companies would go with them. So, would they still own their companies? What, would they just lay everyone off? I hope their wealth isn't in the form of stock...they'd be pretty poor pretty quick.

No, the ultra wealthy are so only because WE allow it, and only at our BEHEST. Don't want Jeff Bezos to be rich? The solution is quite simple...don't use amazon. I don't. To this day, I can say that I have not ordered or sold a single thing on amazon. Don't want Bill Gates to be rich? Then stop buying his crap. Run linux. In today's day and age, we, the majority, are far more powerful than we have ever been in any other point in history. We wield more power than the most powerful of empires from 1,000, or even 500 years ago.

I want Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, sports stars, corporations, actors, musicians etc., to be rich. I just want them to pay their fair share of taxes, pay employees a living wage, and stop buying politicians.

 

[KevinKohler]

I want Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, sports stars, corporations, actors, musicians etc., to be rich. I just want then to pay their fair share of taxes, pay employees a living wage, and stop buying politicians.

We have the power to make that happen. We are the ones that pay their salary. We are their boss.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Read The Fountainhead. Read Atlas Shrugged. They're the same book. She refused to work with an editor on Atlas Shrugged so John Galt's radio address is about 6 pages longer than need be. Objectivism is simple-minded.

Pffftttt, radio address hahahaha more like a tantrum.
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes and do solitary at the Scientology Gold Base than watch an Ayn Rand movie.

 

[aociswundumho]

The socialists are responsible for Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, free public schools, and on and on. You would be far from fine without the socialists.

How is that an argument for socialism? You have to use government force and the threat of a prison sentence in order for these to work, because that's the only way you can get the money from people to pay for them. Sure, those collecting SS would now support it, but virtually no young person would voluntarily pay into SS. Public schools are also a disaster, and no one would voluntarily pay for a public school education. Do you know what the value is of a high school diploma in the job market? Zero.

 

[Loulit01]

Pffftttt, radio address hahahaha more like a tantrum.
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes and do solitary at the Scientology Gold Base than watch an Ayn Rand movie.

To be fair, her books have never been out of print.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Like Ayn Rand fans, their numbers aren't matched by their enthusiasm.

You know what, I've seen libertarians with their heads screwed on straight.
Penn Jillette is an example.

 

[MrWonka]

In that lengthy and often prescient novel, set in a near future dystopian semi-socialist America, many capitalists decide to abandon their enterprises leaving the government to scavenge the corpses of their companies instead bleeding off their profits for their own use.

Famine and civil war ensue.

Now we have a similar opting out, not by capitalists but by professionals not willing to comply with vaccine requirements.

Bwahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

Jesus Christ dude, you're looking at maybe 5% of employees tops willing to actually quit over this bullshit, and believe me, it's the dumbest 5%. It's the 5% you don't really want anyway.

The Vaccine Mandate may end up being the best possible thing we could have done for our Government. It's a phenomenal way of eliminating the right-wing lunatics who threaten it. The true believers who would be willing to sabotage the current administration in order to bring back another. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!!!

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

To be fair, her books have never been out of print.

 

[aociswundumho]

No, the ultra wealthy are so only because WE allow it, and only at our BEHEST. Don't want Jeff Bezos to be rich? The solution is quite simple...don't use amazon. I don't. To this day, I can say that I have not ordered or sold a single thing on amazon.

I love Amazon, it's a great company to buy from. I've said it many times: if anything, Jeff Bezos is underpaid, considering the amount of value he has given the world.

 

[Felis Leo]

In that lengthy and often prescient novel, set in a near future dystopian semi-socialist America, many capitalists decide to abandon their enterprises leaving the government to scavenge the corpses of their companies instead bleeding off their profits for their own use.

Famine and civil war ensue.

Now we have a similar opting out, not by capitalists but by professionals not willing to comply with vaccine requirements. Right now nurses and likely airline pilots, but more to follow as the mandates grow.

It will be hard to measure the effect of these walkouts, especially if they are not reported as such. But we will see a reduction in availability and quality of professional services.

Combine that with possible government "shutdowns" and i say if you're not a prepper what are you waiting for?

I would have to say no. In Atlas Shrugged, it was the wealthiest entrepreneurs and visionaries who retreated from society to Galt's Gulch due to the oppressive conditions placed upon them by an increasingly restrictive and managerial government. This fueled an economic collapse when the managerial class could not competently run these companies.

Here, it is labor walking away and not coming back. The richest and most economically successful corporate ownership class in our society have never had it better or easier than they do now. They make the Robber Barons of the Gilded Age look like honest, working class stiffs by comparison.

 

[aociswundumho]

I have no idea where you get that idea (its probably 'just you'). Perhaps you should be more specific rather than making statements of gross generalization. Start with "what socialists showed up". I actually do not think you can find an economy which is pure capitalism (maybe Somalia) or socialism....

But we know capitalism can work without government, because we observe that markets work even with government actively trying to destroy them. Consider the market for sex. It's illegal just about everywhere, yet it's not very difficult for a buyer to get anything he wants. It's unlicensed, unregulated, and untaxed, yet it works.

A society is a bit like a shower: it needs the right mixture of hot and cold water (or socialism, if you will and capitalism) to be effective.

This is called the middle ground fallacy. The middle point is the best because it's the middle.

The economies that work the best have elements of each.

Based on whose values? Certainly not mine.

 

[aociswundumho]

The richest and most economically successful corporate ownership class in our society have never had it better or easier than they do now. They make the Robber Barons of the Gilded Age look like honest, working class stiffs by comparison.

Yes, now compare the size and scope of the progressive regulatory state then versus today. The more regulation, the easier life is for giant corporations, which is democracy working as intended.

 

[craig]

In that lengthy and often prescient novel, set in a near future dystopian semi-socialist America, many capitalists decide to abandon their enterprises leaving the government to scavenge the corpses of their companies instead bleeding off their profits for their own use.

Famine and civil war ensue.

Now we have a similar opting out, not by capitalists but by professionals not willing to comply with vaccine requirements. Right now nurses and likely airline pilots, but more to follow as the mandates grow.

It will be hard to measure the effect of these walkouts, especially if they are not reported as such. But we will see a reduction in availability and quality of professional services.

Combine that with possible government "shutdowns" and i say if you're not a prepper what are you waiting for?

Have you read the book? Until Elon Musk disappears I don't think there is a parallel.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Socialism is really simple minded.

Get off my roads

I would say you simple minded buffoon but that would require roads to be paid for by the socialistic government

 

[it's just me]

Get off my roads

I would say you simple minded buffoon but that would require roads to be paid for by the socialistic government

I'm not on "your" road and I am not likely to be any time soon.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

How is that an argument for socialism? You have to use government force and the threat of a prison sentence in order for these to work, because that's the only way you can get the money from people to pay for them. Sure, those collecting SS would now support it, but virtually no young person would voluntarily pay into SS. Public schools are also a disaster, and no one would voluntarily pay for a public school education. Do you know what the value is of a high school diploma in the job market? Zero.

A high school education by itself is rather useless in most modern economies. The requirements for most skilled jobs/ careers require post secondary education be it trade school or university.

To get to that you generally require a high school education

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I'm not on "your" road and I am not likely to be any time soon.

You are on government paid roads are you not? Socialism paid for them. They could all be privatized and the owners could require tolls to use them. But no, the gosh darn socialists want crappy government owned roads that are poorly maintained and overcrowded causing traffic jams

 

[bearpoker]

In that lengthy and often prescient novel, set in a near future dystopian semi-socialist America, many capitalists decide to abandon their enterprises leaving the government to scavenge the corpses of their companies instead bleeding off their profits for their own use.

Famine and civil war ensue.

Now we have a similar opting out, not by capitalists but by professionals not willing to comply with vaccine requirements. Right now nurses and likely airline pilots, but more to follow as the mandates grow.

It will be hard to measure the effect of these walkouts, especially if they are not reported as such. But we will see a reduction in availability and quality of professional services.

Combine that with possible government "shutdowns" and i say if you're not a prepper what are you waiting for?

It always amazes me when adults take Ayn Rand seriously. No, this will not be an "Atlas Shrugged" moment. The overwhelming majority of nurses and pilots are or will be vaccinated. The anti-vaxx ones will get some attention and maybe looked for other jobs. Meanwhile airlines and hospitals will be safer for their absence.

 

[seymourflops]

That's an interesting feeling, but I'm finding that a bit hard to believe. Source?

Edit: To the degree that you value my opinion, Ayn Rand is not someone I take very seriously.

I value your opinion, highly.

Ayn Rand has many, many flaws. She was a homewrecker and made her heroic female protaganist a homewrecker as an act of self-justification. She did not understand the value of voluntary altruism to the altruistic one. Her characters are one dimensional and highly unrealistic. Her understanding of businessmen and their love for the free market is pure romantic fantasy.

etc.

But she was prescient in some of that novel.

Sometimes I think the talking heads and the liberal pols in the media have just read that book and are modeling their talking points on those of her government characters.

What's happening now with nurses, pilots, police, soon to be military, etc. is that (some of them) are willing to quit their professions over this vaccine mandate.

Why?

It isn't because of the risk that they perceive from the vaccine. They have a high tolerance for risk or they would not have chosen their professions, and they certainly wouldn't have kept working them during the pandemic, pre-vaccine. The same is true for teachers, when it comes to communicable diseases. Teachers are told during pre-employment training that working with kids, "you'll get everything from whooping cough to hoof and mouth. It's part of the job.

It certainly isn't because they are Trump worshippers. It's Trump's vaccine that he rushed through and cut red tape for. But I understand that the Trumprette's Syndrome didn't stop when he left office so some people have to compulsively blurt his name.

I think the real motivation is that sometimes enough is freaking enough. You can bully some of the people some of the time, but you can't bully all of the people all of the time. Those professions are exposed to a variety of strangers all the time. It is extremely unlikely that they have not been infected already, probably multiple times. They have immunity and they are healthy enough to fight it of, especially a second time.

The purpose of forcing them to get the vaccine is to force them to get the vaccine. To bend the knee to the COVID Karen movement. To show that they can be bullied, as long as it is their jobs you go after. They're willing to give up their livelihoods to refuse to do that.

Americans have sacrificed more for less.

 

[bearpoker]

I think the real motivation is that sometimes enough is freaking enough. You can bully some of the people some of the time, but you can't bully all of the people all of the time. Those professions are exposed to a variety of strangers all the time. It is extremely unlikely that they have not been infected already, probably multiple times. They have immunity and they are healthy enough to fight it of, especially a second time.

The purpose of forcing them to get the vaccine is to force them to get the vaccine. To bend the knee to the COVID Karen movement. To show that they can be bullied, as long as it is their jobs you go after. They're willing to give up their livelihoods to refuse to do that.

I think they just enjoy attention and whining.