Are American Income Taxes Too High When Compared To Canada?

[Dapper Andy]

Every developed country in the world pays significantly less per captia on healthcare than the U.S.

Every single American in this thread can tell you exactly what they pay in healthcare costs, from soup to nuts, but, at absolute best, you can tell me what your politicians tell you and, in my experience, those numbers tend to vary drastically depending on which politician you ask. I don't know what is included in your "official" costs and would be surprised if you do either.

almost any organization/survey will say that the U.S> pales in comparison to other countries.

Probably but that's due almost entirely to political factors.

Our response time and quality of care is lightyears better than the Canadian system. It's 4:33PM on a Friday (summer no less) and I could be in front of an oncologist in minutes. Something like that would be measured in weeks on your end.

 

[Fisher]

Every developed country in the world pays significantly less per captia on healthcare than the U.S. and almost any organization/survey will say that the U.S> pales in comparison to other countries.

And that you speak English instead of Russian is because the US pays significantly more in whole dollars protecting the world. Maybe you should help pay for our healthcare as a Thank You.

 

[Campbell]

Actually, as I showed above, it's not that taxes in America aren't high enough, it's that taxes in America aren't broad enough. Too many Americans are enjoying the fruits of a strong federal government while paying nothing, or very little, for its upkeep.

Ya Ta Da Ta Dahhhhh

The average annual income in this state for a family of four is $46,000. Many of the counties if both parents aren't working it's as low as $25,000. Try to feed, clothe, house and educate with that. Plus....the idea of good health care and anything for a pension is a whore's dream. Those at the top are slowly but surely ending up with it all. Workers are fools if they stand for it much longer.

In the late 40's and early 50's an average corporate executive made about 12-15 times what a plumber or electrician earned. By the 70's that multiplier was about 100 times. In 2010 an average CEO earned 450 times what an ordinary worker earned. The Republicans have dug in and they won't quit till their dream of a Lord/Serf society in America is achieved.

Their mantra, "Pull Yourself Up By Your Boot Straps Even If You Have No Legs!"

 

[Quag]

Every single American in this thread can tell you exactly what they pay in healthcare costs, from soup to nuts, but, at absolute best, you can tell me what your politicians tell you and, in my experience, those numbers tend to vary drastically depending on which politician you ask. I don't know what is included in your "official" costs and would be surprised if you do either.



Probably but that's due almost entirely to political factors.

Our response time and quality of care is lightyears better than the Canadian system. It's 4:33PM on a Friday (summer no less) and I could be in front of an oncologist in minutes. Something like that would be measured in weeks on your end.

Not exactly true. It can be slower than the US system but it can also be very very quick. Cant explain the hows and whys but sometimes the system works great sometimes it sucks. Getting a GP can be difficult (I have personally been very lucky and have always had one but there are many who cannot get one at all) and often seeing a specialist can take time, usually depending on the problem (less critical cases always take more time)

What is overlooked or unknown to most Americans who talk about our healthcare is that it is not 100% Govt run. There is also private health care facilities here. Usually to provide services that would take a long time under the govt run health care to get. The most obvious is scans, MRI's, X-rays etc. You can get this done privately and if you work for a larger company (even for the govt) you will have private health care insurance throuch them, that will pay for it. You can also buy this individually if you want.

Do I think we have the best healthcare possible?
Nope
Would I trade our system for yours?
Nope (that goes for pre or post Obama care)

 

[WCH]

Closer to the truth than you realize.....:3oops:

I noticed where you live.

 

[polgara]

Actually, as I showed above, it's not that taxes in America aren't high enough, it's that taxes in America aren't broad enough. Too many Americans are enjoying the fruits of a strong federal government while paying nothing, or very little, for its upkeep.

Good afternoon, CJ. :2wave:

Excellent post about a very vexing problem! :thumbs: Maybe if jobs were made a priority, as was promised years ago, the problem would be handled by now! I read that 70% of all new jobs being created now are part time...bartending, retail, etc, so how are people supposed to get by without having to work two or three jobs just to provide for their families? This is not right! :thumbdown:

 

[Dapper Andy]

Not exactly true. It can be slower than the US system but it can also be very very quick. Cant explain the hows and whys but sometimes the system works great sometimes it sucks. Getting a GP can be difficult (I have personally been very lucky and have always had one but there are many who cannot get one at all) and often seeing a specialist can take time, usually depending on the problem (less critical cases always take more time)

What is overlooked or unknown to most Americans who talk about our healthcare is that it is not 100% Govt run. There is also private health care facilities here. Usually to provide services that would take a long time under the govt run health care to get. The most obvious is scans, MRI's, X-rays etc. You can get this done privately and if you work for a larger company (even for the govt) you will have private health care insurance throuch them, that will pay for it. You can also buy this individually if you want.

Do I think we have the best healthcare possible?
Nope
Would I trade our system for yours?
Nope (that goes for pre or post Obama care)

That you need private insurance because your public plan is so bad says it all.

 

[Quag]

That you need private insurance because your public plan is so bad says it all.

Our health care isn't that bad I would take it over yours every single time without hesitation.
and as I understand it not everything is covered by most peoples health insurance in the USA either so what is the difference?

 

[Dapper Andy]

Our health care isn't that bad I would take it over yours every single time without hesitation.
and as I understand it not everything is covered by most peoples health insurance in the USA either so what is the difference?

Not bad? You, yourself, consider just seeing a doctor to be difficult!

Anyone can see a doctor with minimal wait time regardless of insurance in the United States. They just may have to pay out of pocket afterwards.

 

[Carjosse]

And that you speak English instead of Russian is because the US pays significantly more in whole dollars protecting the world. Maybe you should help pay for our healthcare as a Thank You.

We can't help it we are right next door to you, it still doesn't change the fact U.S. healthcare would be cheaper if if it had universal healthcare.

 

[Quag]

Not that bad? You, yourself, consider just seeing a doctor to be difficult!

That's really bad ...

Anyone can see a doctor with minimal wait time regardless of insurance in the United States. They just may have to pay out of pocket afterwards.

I have no problems seeing my family doctor. There are those who do not have one and thus they have to go to clinics to see a doctor.
If you cant afford health insurance in the USA do you still have a family doctor or do you go to free clinics?
Again I would never pick your system over our not ever! ours isn't perfect but I don't have to worry about going bankrupt or have my insurance run out and not be able to get that surgery/medicine I need if something ever happens to me

 

[Fisher]

We can't help it we are right next door to you, it still doesn't change the fact U.S. healthcare would be cheaper if if it had universal healthcare.

And we would make less medical advancement from which the world benefits, but I really don't care. Do away with the mandate or have a single payer government run system. Anything else is pointless.

 

[Carjosse]

Every single American in this thread can tell you exactly what they pay in healthcare costs, from soup to nuts, but, at absolute best, you can tell me what your politicians tell you and, in my experience, those numbers tend to vary drastically depending on which politician you ask. I don't know what is included in your "official" costs and would be surprised if you do either.

Probably but that's due almost entirely to political factors.

Our response time and quality of care is lightyears better than the Canadian system. It's 4:33PM on a Friday (summer no less) and I could be in front of an oncologist in minutes. Something like that would be measured in weeks on your end.

Well let's start this list that proves it's much cheaper: Wikipedia,, OECD, The Guardian (WHO), Huntington Post (Includes other statistics that prove how the U.S. is outrageous). I dare you to find a source that says healthcare is cheaper in the U.S..

I can also go to the hospital in the city closet to me and get a cancer test done if I really wanted to. I don't know why you would be going to an oncologist right out of the blue or any specialist for that matter. Where there are waiting times they are prioritized by need.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Danny Williams? Belinda Stronach? Robert Bourassa?



It doesn't really show in any ranking system that I'm aware of.

The United States pretty much dominates all international college rankings. We made up 40% of this years The Higher Education's top 100 whereas Canadians made up 5% of the top 100. USNews and World Report basically shows the exact same.

Firstly, with respect to Canadians going to the US for healthcare, the rich do it all the time for both faster access and more "pampered" care. However, the government here in Ontario provides lots of access to US healthcare to "regular" people as well for services that aren't provided in Canada or for services that have too long a waiting list. In addition to that, many people with supplementary health insurance also access US services when they can. To suggest Canadians don't access US healthcare is just blatantly false. But then, Americans access Canada's healthcare for cheaper generic drugs, and other services, particular those who live near our shared border.

With respect to universities, Canada is a 10th of the population of the US so us having 5% of the top 100 to your 40% isn't such a bad comparison, for us. In addition, Canada has far fewer strictly private universities but the ones we have are on a par with many of the fine institutions in the US. Our post secondary education system is far more public, I believe, than in the US and we have far less in the way of endowments in either public or private schools. That allows your schools to provide a lot more of the bricks and mortar and high tech equipment and facilities to provide a higher level of access to exceptional educational opportunities.

 

[Dapper Andy]

I have no problems seeing my family doctor. There are those who do not have one and thus they have to go to clinics to see a doctor.
If you cant afford health insurance in the USA do you still have a family doctor or do you go to free clinics?
Again I would never pick your system over our not ever! ours isn't perfect but I don't have to worry about going bankrupt or have my insurance run out and not be able to get that surgery/medicine I need if something ever happens to me

You can see any doctor you like in a timely manner, regardless of insurance. You may just have to pay out of pocket.

I find it so confusing that Europeans and Canadians are so gung-ho about their public health plans when they sound so dreadful.

 

[Carjosse]

And we would make less medical advancement from which the world benefits, but I really don't care. Do away with the mandate or have a single payer government run system. Anything else is pointless.

No you wouldn't you would still have all the scientists and researchers again they would be negotiating better prices for them, universal healthcare still creates innovation and competition.

 

[Carjosse]

You can see any doctor you like in a timely manner, regardless of insurance. You may just have to pay out of pocket.

I find it so confusing that Europeans and Canadians are so gung-ho about their public health plans when they sound so dreadful.

I can go to my family doctor or just a doctor at anytime of day and we don't even have to pay (well indirectly through taxes but no one will ever have to pay out of pocket) thus allowing anyone to do it no matter how much money they have or worry about how they are going to pay or it. We are gung-ho about our public health systems because they work and we get our money's worth out of them.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Every single American in this thread can tell you exactly what they pay in healthcare costs, from soup to nuts, but, at absolute best, you can tell me what your politicians tell you and, in my experience, those numbers tend to vary drastically depending on which politician you ask. I don't know what is included in your "official" costs and would be surprised if you do either.



Probably but that's due almost entirely to political factors.

Our response time and quality of care is lightyears better than the Canadian system. It's 4:33PM on a Friday (summer no less) and I could be in front of an oncologist in minutes. Something like that would be measured in weeks on your end.

I would challenge that the quality of care is lightyears better in the US than Canada, but I do agree that comparing the US healthcare system and costs to Canada's is like the old apples and oranges comparison.

Canada's healthcare system is basically exceptional in that for the very sickest, those with catastrophic illnesses/diseases/physical damage, without any person feeling any stress or pressure that a month or so in the hospital could bankrupt them or cause them to lose their home, etc. These very basics for all Americans is what Obama should have moved for rather than the path taken.

Our system is, indeed, very expensive and government is continuously delisting services that will be covered on the government dime. For those under 65 or not on welfare, supplemental health insurance becomes almost a necessity because the cost of drugs, as an example, aren't covered along with many other services that most would assume are covered in a universal healthcare system.

Even with all the cutbacks, here in Ontario, our provincial government spends almost 50% of every dollar in revenue on the provision of healthcare, including the federal subsidies that all provinces get under the system.

Even with all that, there isn't a single Canadian who'd be willing to trade places and give up our system - we want things to get better, but we like the comfort of not having to worry about getting sick.

 

[Dapper Andy]

With respect to universities, Canada is a 10th of the population of the US so us having 5% of the top 100 to your 40% isn't such a bad comparison, for us. In addition, Canada has far fewer strictly private universities but the ones we have are on a par with many of the fine institutions in the US. Our post secondary education system is far more public, I believe, than in the US and we have far less in the way of endowments in either public or private schools. That allows your schools to provide a lot more of the bricks and mortar and high tech equipment and facilities to provide a higher level of access to exceptional educational opportunities.

I don't doubt that Canada has plenty of good schools. I was mostly responding to his insinuation that U.S. colleges are bad.

The United States just dominates international college rankings, especially the top of the rankings.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Good afternoon, CJ. :2wave:

Excellent post about a very vexing problem! :thumbs: Maybe if jobs were made a priority, as was promised years ago, the problem would be handled by now! I read that 70% of all new jobs being created now are part time...bartending, retail, etc, so how are people supposed to get by without having to work two or three jobs just to provide for their families? This is not right! :thumbdown:

Good evening Lady P - chilly here today - where did Autumn go??

 

[CanadaJohn]

Not bad? You, yourself, consider just seeing a doctor to be difficult!

Anyone can see a doctor with minimal wait time regardless of insurance in the United States. They just may have to pay out of pocket afterwards.

This is patently not true considering all the Medicare patients in the US who are having problems finding a doctor who'll accept the lower levels of payments under Medicare, let alone be able to schedule an appointment.

 

[Carjosse]

I would challenge that the quality of care is lightyears better in the US than Canada, but I do agree that comparing the US healthcare system and costs to Canada's is like the old apples and oranges comparison.

Canada's healthcare system is basically exceptional in that for the very sickest, those with catastrophic illnesses/diseases/physical damage, without any person feeling any stress or pressure that a month or so in the hospital could bankrupt them or cause them to lose their home, etc. These very basics for all Americans is what Obama should have moved for rather than the path taken.

Our system is, indeed, very expensive and government is continuously delisting services that will be covered on the government dime. For those under 65 or not on welfare, supplemental health insurance becomes almost a necessity because the cost of drugs, as an example, aren't covered along with many other services that most would assume are covered in a universal healthcare system.

Even with all the cutbacks, here in Ontario, our provincial government spends almost 50% of every dollar in revenue on the provision of healthcare, including the federal subsidies that all provinces get under the system.

Even with all that, there isn't a single Canadian who'd be willing to trade places and give up our system - we want things to get better, but we like the comfort of not having to worry about getting sick.

European countries for the most part do not cover prescription medication or dental either to my knowledge. Then in Ontario we only spend 40% then secondly even then we spend half what the U.S. does on healthcare. We have a very high standard of care in Canada, the U.S. may be higher but no one can actually afford the care. We can improve but people still get the care they need and without having to worry about how to payf or it or have piles of debt.

 

[Carjosse]

I don't doubt that Canada has plenty of good schools. I was mostly responding to his insinuation that U.S. colleges are bad.

The United States just dominates international college rankings, especially the top of the rankings.

We do have plenty but world rankings generally overlook them sure we do not have Oxford or Harvard but our schools are good none the less and most are internationally recognized. We can also afford university.

 

[polgara]

Good evening Lady P - chilly here today - where did Autumn go??

The squalls that roared through here last night means we are all wearing heavy sweaters today just to keep warm!

Autumn went to the same place common sense did, I guess. Which do you think might reappear first? My bet is on Mother Nature! :mrgreen:

 

[CanadaJohn]

The squalls that roared through here last night means we are all wearing heavy sweaters today just to keep warm!

Autumn went to the same place common sense did, I guess. Which do you think might reappear first? My bet is on Mother Nature! :mrgreen:

Hope so - we've still got about a week of summer left, according to the calendar. I'll blame it on global warming.