Arabs Back Palestinians in Quest for Statehood

[TheDemSocialist]

—The Arab League will appeal to the United Nations to admit the Palestinians as full members, adding momentum to a Palestinian campaign for international recognition that is opposed by the U.S. and Israel.


The U.S. would be likely to veto such a move, but the U.N. General Assembly could make a symbolic gesture that could increase Palestinian leverage in seeking statehood.

More here: Arabs Back Palestinians In Quest for Statehood - WSJ.com

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?

 

[DarkWizard12]

—The Arab League will appeal to the United Nations to admit the Palestinians as full members, adding momentum to a Palestinian campaign for international recognition that is opposed by the U.S. and Israel.


The U.S. would be likely to veto such a move, but the U.N. General Assembly could make a symbolic gesture that could increase Palestinian leverage in seeking statehood.

More here: Arabs Back Palestinians In Quest for Statehood - WSJ.com

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?

This looks to be nothing more than a jester. US should call their bluff and vote for it, see if they don't withdraw as quickly as they submitted this. Even the palestinians themselves don't want statehood, without control of all of israel.

 

[gunner]

From the article,

"The State Department on Thursday said that the U.S. remains focused on bringing the Israelis and the Palestinians back into direct talks and that Washington didn't believe the U.N. was the right forum to resolve the Mideast conflict. Israel's foreign ministry declined to comment on the Arab League decision".

I wonder why the US feels the UN is the wrong forum to resolve the ME conflict? It would be a statement i could respect if thus far we had demonstrable results, or were far down some road with an acceptable end insight. The way i see it any forum that helps breech the impasse can only be seen as a positive no matter who drives the discussions.

Paul

 

[DarkWizard12]

From the article,

"The State Department on Thursday said that the U.S. remains focused on bringing the Israelis and the Palestinians back into direct talks and that Washington didn't believe the U.N. was the right forum to resolve the Mideast conflict. Israel's foreign ministry declined to comment on the Arab League decision".

I wonder why the US feels the UN is the wrong forum to resolve the ME conflict? It would be a statement i could respect if thus far we had demonstrable results, or were far down some road with an acceptable end insight. The way i see it any forum that helps breech the impasse can only be seen as a positive no matter who drives the discussions.

Paul

Because the UN is powerless, solves nothing, causes problems, and their treaties aren't worth the paper they're written on? just a guess?

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Thread moved to the Middle East forum. The Martial Law rules are now in effect. http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/99774-me-forum-martial-law-concordance.html

 

[gunner]

Because the UN is powerless, solves nothing, causes problems, and their treaties aren't worth the paper they're written on? just a guess?

And the all encompassing power and influence of the US has got us where?

Paul

 

[DarkWizard12]

And the all encompassing power and influence of the US has got us where?

Paul

who said US power and influence was all encompassing?

 

[gunner]

who said US power and influence was all encompassing?

Use whatever word suit. The question still stands. To date, with the US initiative are we any closer in finding a settlement? Its a straightforward question...

Paul

 

[CJ 2.0]

Use whatever word suit. The question still stands. To date, with the US initiative are we any closer in finding a settlement? Its a straightforward question...

Paul

We are not, because the US is not putting pressure in the right place.

But no, this won't help. The response from Israel to a Palestinian declaration of independence without an agreement will be annexation of all the territories Israel wants to hold on to (potentially up to all Area C, though if I were them I would restrict it to all areas behind the security barrier), cutting off customs support and tax collection, and a very aggresive posture to acts of aggresion from the Palestinians.

And no, I don't think that would make things better or avoid the likelihood of a conflict, but that is what I think the results would be. Meanwhile, the Palestinians, enver having actually come to terms with Israel's existence, would latch onto any real and invented grievances to continuie their campaign to "liberate historic Palestine".

So no, the UN wouldn't help. The only thing that would help is real, sustained international and US pressure on the Palestinians to actually abandon their goal of Israel's destruction and to compromise from the maximalist demands that they have not deviated from for decades.

 

[Gardener]

Arabs are backing Arabs.

What a surprise.

 

[ido_]

And the all encompassing power and influence of the US has got us where?

Paul

Got us a cold peace with Egypt and Jordan. The UN on the other hand got us a neighbour in the north which is practicly ran by a terrorist organization.

 

[CJ 2.0]

We are not, because the US is not putting pressure in the right place.

But no, this won't help. The response from Israel to a Palestinian declaration of independence without an agreement will be annexation of all the territories Israel wants to hold on to (potentially up to all Area C, though if I were them I would restrict it to all areas behind the security barrier), cutting off customs support and tax collection, and a very aggresive posture to acts of aggresion from the Palestinians.

And no, I don't think that would make things better or avoid the likelihood of a conflict, but that is what I think the results would be. Meanwhile, the Palestinians, enver having actually come to terms with Israel's existence, would latch onto any real and invented grievances to continuie their campaign to "liberate historic Palestine".

So no, the UN wouldn't help. The only thing that would help is real, sustained international and US pressure on the Palestinians to actually abandon their goal of Israel's destruction and to compromise from the maximalist demands that they have not deviated from for decades.

Case in point:

6 in 10 Palestinians reject 2-sta... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

"Only one in three Palestinians (34 percent) accepts two states for two peoples as the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict"

"Sixty-six percent said the Palestinians’ real goal should be to start with a two-state solution but then move to it all being one Palestinian state."

"Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city."

"Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem"

"62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage"

"53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools."

"73% of 1,010 Palestinians in W. Bank, Gaza agree with 'hadith' quoted in Hamas Charter about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones, trees"


Partners in peace.

 

[toomuchtime_]

—The Arab League will appeal to the United Nations to admit the Palestinians as full members, adding momentum to a Palestinian campaign for international recognition that is opposed by the U.S. and Israel.


The U.S. would be likely to veto such a move, but the U.N. General Assembly could make a symbolic gesture that could increase Palestinian leverage in seeking statehood.

More here: Arabs Back Palestinians In Quest for Statehood - WSJ.com

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?

The PA now has NGO observer status at the UN, and if the GA votes to recognize a Palestinian Arab state, it would then have non member state observer status. The difference is that then it could sit on certain committees that deal with internal UN matters. It would have no effect on actual membership since that can only be achieved by overcoming the US veto in the UNSC, and it, of course, would have no effect on achieving statehood in practical terms since if Israel does not recognize a Palestinian state, nothing on the ground changes. The only purpose this bid does serve is to make the incompetent, corrupt, illegitimate Ramallah government look like it is doing something substantial when it is not. The most likely result of this bid for membership is that the Palestinian Arab people will realize that it accomplishes nothing for them and turn to violence again in a third intifada that will kill many of them.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Use whatever word suit. The question still stands. To date, with the US initiative are we any closer in finding a settlement? Its a straightforward question...

Paul

Why is that relevent? I don't know anything some "US initiative", I never even brought it up. So far, all these "meetings" have just been a waste of time and money. On paper, we got treaties between israel, her neighbors, and "initiatives" out the rear. In practice, none of that really does anything.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Case in point:

6 in 10 Palestinians reject 2-sta... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

"Only one in three Palestinians (34 percent) accepts two states for two peoples as the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict"

"Sixty-six percent said the Palestinians’ real goal should be to start with a two-state solution but then move to it all being one Palestinian state."

"Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city."

"Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem"

"62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage"

"53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools."

"73% of 1,010 Palestinians in W. Bank, Gaza agree with 'hadith' quoted in Hamas Charter about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones, trees"


Partners in peace.

And we all know that JPost isn't a conservative pro-Zionist newspaper with its own agenda.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

And we all know that JPost isn't a conservative pro-Zionist newspaper with its own agenda.

Hahah exactly what i was thinking...

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Get back on topic. The Arab league........

 

[Jeezy]

And we all know that JPost isn't a conservative pro-Zionist newspaper with its own agenda.

One can play with the statistics, but the spirit of the post is not incorrect -- there are those in the Palestinian camp who favor a gradualist approach. Some of those people sit in high places. It's the same within the Israeli camp, naturally.

But on the subject -- I don't think this will do much on its own. The Arab League's support was, in my mind, implicit. Whether that support can actually translate into a UN seat is doubtful. Nothing dynamic has happened to change anyone's minds.

 

[toomuchtime_]

And we all know that JPost isn't a conservative pro-Zionist newspaper with its own agenda.

A more careful reader would have noticed that the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion, not a pro Zionist organization, was a partner in conducting this poll.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

A more careful reader would have noticed that the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion, not a pro Zionist organization, was a partner in conducting this poll.

And a more careful poster would've tried to use a source that wasn't obviously biased.

 

[Thunder]

the peace process has failed to provide anything resembling real Palestinian sovereignty.

that said, maybe this will.

a voting seat at the UN Gen. Assem, means a lot.

recognition of statehood by the UN Gen. Assem., means a lot.



Israel is in real trouble if it thinks this is meaningless.

 

[toomuchtime_]

the peace process has failed to provide anything resembling real Palestinian sovereignty.

that said, maybe this will.

a voting seat at the UN Gen. Assem, means a lot.

recognition of statehood by the UN Gen. Assem., means a lot.



Israel is in real trouble if it thinks this is meaningless.

Recognition by the GA does not give the PA a voting seat in the GA. It gives them non member state observer status.

United Nations General Assembly observers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[William Rea]

the peace process has failed to provide anything resembling real Palestinian sovereignty.

that said, maybe this will.

a voting seat at the UN Gen. Assem, means a lot.

recognition of statehood by the UN Gen. Assem., means a lot.



Israel is in real trouble if it thinks this is meaningless.

The Palestinians have essentially gained nothing from negotiating with the US over the final status of its satellite state on the Mediterranean sea board of the ME so I don't think they have anything to lose with this.

As September approaches the campaign is building a head of steam and the Israeli reaction tells me that this will be a real blow to them strategically if the Palestinians are successful.

 

[IamJoseph]

The 57 Islamic states vote against Israel no matter what the UN Motion. The credibility factor here is zero. Dumping Mosques on the known sacred sites of others, then denying history; and robbing names like Palestinians for a fake political exploitation, only affirms the zero credibility factor. Such debacles have resulted in making them the least productive and least believable peoples in Geo-History. One must wonder when Muslim Zionists will be invented - there is historical precedence here.

 

[IamJoseph]

The Palestinians have essentially gained nothing from negotiating with the US over the final status of its satellite state on the Mediterranean sea board of the ME so I don't think they have anything to lose with this.

They gained the disdained name of Palestinian, which was applied on Judea, the Jewish homeland, not an Islamic or Arab one, by Rome - as a mark of disdain. Jews were called by this name exclusively for 2000 years before an Egyptian born terrorist called Arafat emerged. Its good riddence.

As September approaches the campaign is building a head of steam and the Israeli reaction tells me that this will be a real blow to them strategically if the Palestinians are successful.

Israel has a good record with blow takings.

We are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it (With thanks to justabubba)
If Israel were to take someone and cut of his head, some of you would post that he still has arms and legs.

But Israel does not cut heads off - not even on international TV while screaming allah akbar. Israel does not even slit the throats of children while they sleep. Israel was the first nation which forbid capital punishment - 2,900 years ago. Are you not confused a trifle? :shock: