Anyone else watching this? [W:500]

[Removable Mind]

They are responsible just as much as a man. And I said they need to take responsibility for their sexual choices. Let's get the facts straight. Are you suggesting women don't make a choice to have sex?

David...I'm through, dude.

 

[Removable Mind]

WHAT DOUBLE TALK?

You asked a question, it got a direct answer - the representatives and senators of this state are chosen from the people to vote on matters, they overwhelmingly voted in favor of this bill, and that's a fact.

Texas Legislator's majority...is comprised of radical wacknuts. Whose fault is that? The voters. Texas' population of morons has definitely grown over the past 2 decades. And we can thank the Texas government for that.

Don't believe that these wackos actually represent sound thinking, rational thinking citizens.

No need for us to continue this discuss, Jay...

 

[minnie616]

Our methods and purposes are different. I want to make abortion rare by preventing unplanned pregnancy. This law just eliminates abortion under the guise of safety. Abortion procedures are already safe in the state of Texas. If they weren't, there would be injured or dead women on which to base this law. But there isn't. This law is a pretense and supposes a danger that does not exist.

I agree.
We can change our future and the future of generations to come by being pro active and striving for fewer unwanted pregnancies and unwanted children.
Less unwanted pregnancies would mean less abortions.
And the best way reduce and prevent unwanted pregnancies is a goof proof , inexpensive type of birth control with little or no side effects.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

People need to make up their minds. . . I've read countless posts and studies by pro-choice individuals/research groups who cite the UNSAFE conditions of abortion clinics - etc . . . given that most happen before 20 weeks (and even before 8 weeks) . . . and that it's only WISE to have CLEAN conditions . . . I don't see what everyone's bitching about.

I don't mind the limitation - by 20 weeks you should KNOW where you stand.

If you have someone poking around in your womb you should WANT them to be using care and caution.

None of this should be a dramatic issue.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

definitely a good night of political theater... very entertaining.


the only thing missing from this drama is the usual criticisms of filibusters from liberals/democrats... something about blocking the will of the people, obstructionism, etc etc etc, bla bla bla

No the ones we have a problem with are the so called silent fillibuster that don't require senators to stand and hold the floor for hours.

 

[AGENT J]

its awesome this stupid nonsensical biased retarded bill is currently dead

while Im fine with the 20-22 week window and my PERSONAL opinion is that abortion should be vastly limited over 21 weeks (it already is over 24 weeks) but the rest of the bill is completely stupid.

any bill that could "possibly" close 37 of the 42 facilities providing safe, legal abortions in Texas is just stupid and not about rights/safety or anything else people try to say its about.

They should have stuck with the 20-22 week window and left it at that, honest, logical bills like that could actually work. The medical standards are already fine and not to be legislated in this fashion.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

The bill has overwhelming support from the representatives of the people, does it not? We voted for those people for a reason and they are doing our work. I'm proud of my state rep and his resolve in this regard.

Not the people in the building supporting the senator that was fillibustering the bill.

 

[HumanBeing]

I still don't understand what's going on. First I read that the vote took place in time, then I read that the computerized records had been deliberately falsified in an attempt to completely bypass the entire legal process, but that it was being put back again to reflect the correct time and date so the bill wasn't passing after all.

Why are you people still talking about abortion, as if your ideas on the matter have any influence? The entire argument for whether it should be legal or not ended up boiling down to one woman's ability to speak for hours on end without urinating. And even after all that, it was almost decided by fraud instead.

Forget making new laws for a second. Haven't some fairly serious existing laws just been broken in all of this? No matter what you think about abortion, can't we all come together and condemn the practice of lawmakers attempting to commit serious acts of fraud to bypass the legal process, and call for some kind of punishment for those involved?

 

[Josie]

The republicans are just ignoring all of the rules, just ugh. :doh

Which shouldn't happen. Rules are rules.

 

[Gina]

Why? I dont think I understand that response ANY time it is given. Why are you interested in tremendously reducing the number of abortions?

Though I believe your tongue is firmly in your cheek and you are well aware as I think you and I have had this discussion before, I am not pro-abortion.

People can already buy products that do that. Literally no one is saying otherwise.



No, it doesn't eliminate abortion. It will certainly reduce it and make sure it is quite safe.



And yet I heard we have a Gosnell wannabe in the mix in Houston.

1. Education and the program I linked earlier in this thread, Study: Free Birth Control Slashes Abortion Rates | TIME.com would go a lot further to reduce the number of abortions.

2.

The legislation would have prohibited abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy, regulated first-trimester abortion clinics as ambulatory surgical centers and restricted access to medication abortions. Had it passed, nearly all of the clinics in the state would have been shuttered.

So, no.

3. What Gosnell did is already illegal. No need for further laws.

 

[JayDubya]

Not the people in the building supporting the senator that was fillibustering the bill.

You seem to be implying somehow that our entire state should cater to the whims of some particularly noisy locals in Austin. We don't, and we won't.

 

[nota bene]

Texas Legislator's majority...is comprised of radical wacknuts. Whose fault is that? The voters. Texas' population of morons has definitely grown over the past 2 decades. And we can thank the Texas government for that.

Don't believe that these wackos actually represent sound thinking, rational thinking citizens.

They were elected.

You can't blame Texas government for an increase in "morons," by which I'm guessing you mean pro-life.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

David...I'm through, dude.

Becuase you know you are wrong.

 

[JayDubya]

Texas Legislator's majority...is comprised of radical wacknuts. Whose fault is that? The voters.

That's right, the voters. You know, the ones you didn't admit existed a minute ago when you were incredulously asking me a question with an obvious, straightforward answer.

The voters - the people of this state, the ones who support this bill and want our elected legislators to do the work we put them there to do.

Your insults remain so much noise.

 

[VanceMack]

Though I believe your tongue is firmly in your cheek and you are well aware as I think you and I have had this discussion before, I am not pro-abortion.

But it IS a serious question (and I am not in favor of banning abortions). Its a commonly stated and oft repeated. It is Obamas position as well...it should be safe and rare. The question is...why? Why rare? If it is just the elimination of some unwanted tissue then it shouldnt matter if it happened a million times a year or a million times a day. If it is more...then...should it be happening at all?

its kinda like the statement...well...PERSONALLY I think its murder. Buuuuuuuuuut...its not for me to say...

 

[nota bene]

You seem to be implying somehow that our entire state should cater to the whims of some particularly noisy locals in Austin. We don't, and we won't.

Austin is its own little reality.

 

[JayDubya]

1. Education and the program I linked earlier in this thread, Study: Free Birth Control Slashes Abortion Rates | TIME.com would go a lot further to reduce the number of abortions.

TANSTAAFL.

2. So, no.

So, exactly as I said, it does not eliminate abortion.

3. What Gosnell did is already illegal. No need for further laws.

Nope. Better laws would prevent such a thing from ever happening in the first place.

 

[minnie616]

People need to make up their minds. . . I've read countless posts and studies by pro-choice individuals/research groups who cite the UNSAFE conditions of abortion clinics - etc . . . given that most happen before 20 weeks (and even before 8 weeks) . . . and that it's only WISE to have CLEAN conditions . . . I don't see what everyone's bitching about.

I don't mind the limitation - by 20 weeks you should KNOW where you stand.

If you have someone poking around in your womb you should WANT them to be using care and caution.

None of this should be a dramatic issue.

The bill would have forced even the clinics that did not preform surgical abortions (Only perscribed abortion pills ) to upgrade their facilities and be classified as ambulatory surgical centers.
Also, doctors would be required to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles which is really a tall order in rural communities
That is what this bill was about.

 

[Josie]

The bill would have forced even the clinics that did not preform surgical abortions (Only perscribed abortion pills ) to upgrade their facilities and be classified as ambulatory surgical centers.
Also, doctors would be required to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles which is really a tall order in rural communities
That is what this bill was about.

I think we all know that's not really what pro-choicers are upset about with this bill....

 

[AGENT J]

I think we all know that's not really what pro-choicers are upset about with this bill....

thats what bothers me about the bill 100%
its nonsensical, the government way over reaching and goes in the face of all logic.


Id sign off on a national bill to vastly limit abortion at 21 weeks tomorrow if i could but the rest of this bill is pure garbage and is illogical

 

[minnie616]

I think we all know that's not really what pro-choicers are upset about with this bill....

Well mark me as one pro choicer who is very upset about that bill because of the reasons I posted.

 

[Josie]

Well mark me as one pro choicer who is very upset about that bill because of the reasons I posted.

So you wouldn't be against making abortions at 20 weeks+ illegal with the exception of emergency situations?

 

[minnie616]

So you wouldn't be against making abortions at 20 weeks+ illegal with the exception of emergency situations?

I would not be against making abortions at 20 weeks+ illegal with the exception of severe genetic abnormalities, and the extreme cases I have mentioned before.
The cases where the woman's life or irreparable damage to a major bodily function would occur if the pregnancy were continued , where the fetus would be still born or where it is so malformed it would live a few minutes or minutes.

I feel very strongly about the cases of genitc and malformed fetuses because I miscarried a severly malformed fetus when I was 20 weeks pregnant.

I had 2 miscarriages between my second and third child.
The first one was an early miscarriage; my second miscarriage was about 20 weeks gestation.
I went to the ER with early labor pains hoping they could stop the labor.
They took a pregnancy test and told me I was no longer pregnant and the OB/GYN covering for my doctor ( mydoctor was out of town at the time) would be in the next day to perform the abortion.

When they took me to my room and I was transferring from the gurrney to the bed the fetus was expelled and I accidently saw how malformed it was. My doctor later told me that even if I had carried it longer it never would have been vivible.
It never had a chance for life.

Now if the fetus had not been expelled and if the doctor were not allowed to perform an abortion to remove the dead fetal material there was a very real possiblity that the dead fetal material could have become infected. I could have lost my life or I might have at least needed a compete hysterectomy.

If that had happened my 2 youngest children would never have been born.

 

[Removable Mind]

That's right, the voters. You know, the ones you didn't admit existed a minute ago when you were incredulously asking me a question with an obvious, straightforward answer.

The voters - the people of this state, the ones who support this bill and want our elected legislators to do the work we put them there to do.

Your insults remain so much noise.

Noooo...you switched your argument about "the majority". The majority in the Texas Legislation is hardcore conservatives. It's been that way for the past couple of decades. DO THEY REPRESENT THE MAJORITY VOICE with the citizens? And that was your original claim. I asked where you came to believe such in making such a claim.

Jay...you know that this isn't going anywhere. You're consistent circular argument game never ends. So whats the point in responding to my post? It never accomplishes anything.

 

[JayDubya]

he majority in the Texas Legislation is hardcore conservatives. It's been that way for the past couple of decades. DO THEY REPRESENT THE MAJORITY VOICE with the citizens?

If it's been that way for decades (and it has) and we - the majority of us - continue to approve of this (and we do), and we have the votes for this bill right in front of us (and we do), the obvious answer is yes, yes they do.

Again, Austin is not in any way indicative of the state as a whole.