Any Conservatives still deny Trump is a racist?

[Winston]

But they didn't enter the country illegally. They stayed illegally, which is a whole different creature and a whole different kind of illegal presence. (and note, people of all sorts of origin countries, creeds, races, and colors come and overstay visas, and he hasn't really said much of anything about any of them - you simply chose to focus on just Eastern Europeans - also not a race, by the way - who do it and ignore the rest that he didn't comment on)

Note, I don't think either of them should be illegal, and indeed support an Open Borders proposal.

But again, none of this seems to have much of anything to do with race. Just about people illegally crossing the border.

I think if your argument were sound he would be calling out the undocumented immigrants that overstay visas as well, but, he only calls out our Brown neighbors to the South. Because he's a racist. There is also a disparity in how he addresses massacres. But, society has that problem as a whole.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Whether Trump is truly racist in his heart... I don't know, it's one of the few things I may be able to give him the benefit of the doubt on.

But let us make absolutely no mistake, he absolutely, 100% tapped into the dark side of American Populism when he began his campaign, he absolutely and willfully meant to appeal to many of the racist fringes of the Republican party, many conservatives here will pretend it doesn't exist or it's not that sizeable, but it certainly didn't hurt him during the primaries and beyond.

People aren't imagining he has racist tendencies, he absolutely demonstrated what kind of people he wanted to appeal to and who he wanted to vote for him.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I think if your argument were sound he would be calling out the undocumented immigrants that overstay visas as well, but, he only calls out our Brown neighbors to the South. Because he's a racist. There is also a disparity in how he addresses massacres. But, society has that problem as a whole.

Rather, he calls out people crossing the border illegally. And doesn't call out the undocumented immigrants of ANY race, creed, color, or country of origin who overstay visas.

I think if your argument were sound of him being a 'racist' he would be calling out the "Brown" undocumented immigrants who came in on visas and overstayed them while not calling out 'white' ones. Yet he doesn't.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I think if your argument were sound he would be calling out the undocumented immigrants that overstay visas as well, but, he only calls out our Brown neighbors to the South. Because he's a racist. There is also a disparity in how he addresses massacres. But, society has that problem as a whole.

Perhaps it is simpler than that, after all, Trump is a simple guy. If there is no way to keep uninvited foreign nationals out of the country then what good is deporting any of them (at considerable expense) going to do?

 

[Winston]

Which again, apply for citizenship/asylum the legal route. If your claim for asylum is legitimate, then they would accept you. There are hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Mexico and Latin America that have successfully applied for citizenship and became citizens.

That's fine and dandy in theory. In practice, the Trump administration is limiting immigration from our Southern border in newfound ways. Here is a quote from Jeff Sessions which backs my claim that the Trump administration is headed by a racist:

In July, former Attorney General Jeff Sessions made it all but impossible for asylum seekers to gain entry into the United States by citing fears of domestic abuse or gang violence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/10/us/politics/trump-asylum-border-.html

Looks like fear mongering to me. I wonder how Sessions would feel if he were denied a legitimate asylum claim on the parameters of him being a Nazi.

The president has painted the caravan as an imminent national security threat for weeks. The groups is made up primarily of Honduran, El Salvadorian and Guatemalan natives, many of whom are fleeing violence and poverty.

https://thehill.com/latino/418157-us-customs-closes-major-point-of-entry-along-southern-border

There's also the problem of Trump lying about the caravan over and over.

 

[Nickyjo]

I'll do you one further. I think Trump is the least racist president we have ever had and there is ever growing evidence to support that.

That may be so, but it is pretty undeniable that he uses race and racial fears for political purposes. Too many examples of that.

 

[Winston]

Perhaps it is simpler than that, after all, Trump is a simple guy. If there is no way to keep uninvited foreign nationals out of the country then what good is deporting any of them (at considerable expense) going to do?

If he were against illegal immigration for the sake of law and order, he would be apoplectic at our Eastern Europeans who overstay VISA's. Trump, who was an inch away from being indicted last week, is against something because he cares deeply about law and order? Occam's Razor applies here. Trump selectively demonizes immigrants with brown skin and gives Eastern Europeans a pass, because he's a racist.

 

[Winston]

Rather, he calls out people crossing the border illegally. And doesn't call out the undocumented immigrants of ANY race, creed, color, or country of origin who overstay visas.

I think if your argument were sound of him being a 'racist' he would be calling out the "Brown" undocumented immigrants who came in on visas and overstayed them while not calling out 'white' ones. Yet he doesn't.

I think if we had an instance of a a person of Anglo-Saxon lineage illegally crossing he wouldn't give two ****s.

He does call them out. Any chance Trump has to demonize Hispanics or Muslims he seizes upon.

I don't think you can get around his silence on VISA overstays. The numbers are not even in your favor. VISA overstays account for a convincing majority of undocumented persons inside the U.S.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216

Crossing the border is not the way "the large majority of persons now become undocumented," the Center for Migration Studies (CMS) said in a recent report. Two-thirds of those who joined the undocumented population did so by entering with a valid visa and then overstaying their period of admission, the center reported.

If Trump were against illegal immigration for the sake of law and order, those who overstay VISA's would catch his attention. He's against immigration because he's a cooky old racist.

 

[Conaeolos]

That may be so, but it is pretty undeniable that he uses race and racial fears for political purposes. Too many examples of that.

True but that’s pretty common and hardly makes one racist. Play to win.

 

[ttwtt78640]

If he were against illegal immigration for the sake of law and order, he would be apoplectic at our Eastern Europeans who overstay VISA's. Trump, who was an inch away from being indicted last week, is against something because he cares deeply about law and order? Occam's Razor applies here. Trump selectively demonizes immigrants with brown skin and gives Eastern Europeans a pass, because he's a racist.

Where, exactly, are these hoards of Eastern European illegal immigrants? The following links do not seem to support your assertion:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/US

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

 

[Gondwanaland]

I think if we had an instance of a a person of Anglo-Saxon lineage illegally crossing he wouldn't give two ****s.

You're welcome to think, believe, and even fantasize that. But your thoughts and beliefs and fantasies don't magically make someone else racist.

He does call them out. Any chance Trump has to demonize Hispanics or Muslims he seizes upon.

Alright give me an example of him calling out a Hispanic or a Muslim (who are, again NOT A RACE) for overstaying visas then.

I don't think you can get around his silence on VISA overstays. The numbers are not even in your favor. VISA overstays account for a convincing majority of undocumented persons inside the U.S.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216

You just said he calls them out but now you say he has silence on VISA overstays.

And the numbers are indeed in my favor as I just noted that if your argument were sound, he would be calling out the 'brown' undocumented immigrants who came in legally on visas and then illegally overstayed them, while not calling out whites. Here you admit the numbers of those illegals are higher than border crossing ones, yet you also admit he is silent. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too here.

If Trump were against illegal immigration for the sake of law and order, those who overstay VISA's would catch his attention. He's against immigration because he's a cooky old racist.

If Trump were a cooky old racist, he would indeed be commenting about "brown" people who overstay Visas and ate the same time wave off white people that overstay Visas. But he doesn't.

He only comments about a particular subset of illegal immigration, namely those who both come illegally and stay illegaly (and not those who come legally and then illegally overstay their visas), because that's apparently the kind of particular type of illegal immigration that bothers him the most. If your hypothesis were correct, we WOULDN'T have the silence you yourself admitted he has.

 

[Winston]

Where, exactly, are these hoards of Eastern European illegal immigrants? The following links do not seem to support your assertion:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/data/unauthorized-immigrant-population/state/US

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States

Data marks less than I thought. I have personally seen many from Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Most don't overstay but, some do. Data marks less than I thought. I was wrong about that point. But, I worked in hotels that employed huge caravans :2razz: of Eastern Europeans through the J-1 VISA program. Some do overstay and seek marriage.

Still, overstaying VISA's remains a salient point on my behalf. Even if Europeans make up a smaller amount of those people than I thought.

There's also this nugget inside the wiki link:

Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy, contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.

Here's something I found on illegal Irish immigrants:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/us/white-irish-undocumented-trnd/index.html

"It is easier being illegal here when you're white," Shauna, an undocumented Irish immigrant, tells CNN. "It's not easy, of course, you have that paranoia but there isn't the racial element. It's a bit easier to stay under the radar."

This one acknowledges there is a racial element to immigration, which seems obvious to me. I think those pretending Trump's immigration push is based around law and order are being disingenuous. His constant demonization of the people at the border as MS-13, is very racist.

So, if they are safer people and good for the economy. That is lethal to the given reasons why the Trump administration is against them. I think the only reason we are left with is that Trump is prejudiced against them. And I believe the GOP itself is fighting for its life.

It's odd because hispanics and Muslims are ready to be conservative. They are family oriented, strict values oriented people, and highly religious. They are not about the secular left at all. But, the GOP has racist tendencies that drive them out.

 

[Winston]

You're welcome to think, believe, and even fantasize that. But your thoughts and beliefs and fantasies don't magically make someone else racist.
Alright give me an example of him calling out a Hispanic or a Muslim (who are, again NOT A RACE) for overstaying visas then.

We don't need fantasies to see that Trump is an old school racist. The lies and attacks on immigrants to the south of us have convinced me of that.

I was wrong about the numbers on the VISA overstays. I thought a good chunk of them were European, from anecdotal evidence I've seen working in hotels.

You just said he calls them out but now you say he has silence on VISA overstays.

Trump did an executive order on VISA overstays here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...hancing-public-safety-interior-united-states/

“Many aliens who illegally enter the United States and those who overstay or otherwise violate the terms of their visas present a significant threat to national security and public safety,”

But, we know he doesn't actually write those executive orders, he just signs them.

And the numbers are indeed in my favor as I just noted that if your argument were sound, he would be calling out the 'brown' undocumented immigrants who came in legally on visas and then illegally overstayed them, while not calling out whites. Here you admit the numbers of those illegals are higher than border crossing ones, yet you also admit he is silent. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too here.

Like I said, I was wrong about the numbers. I thought a disproportionate # were from Europe.

If Trump were a cooky old racist, he would indeed be commenting about "brown" people who overstay Visas and ate the same time wave off white people that overstay Visas. But he doesn't.

He only comments about a particular subset of illegal immigration, namely those who both come illegally and stay illegaly (and not those who come legally and then illegally overstay their visas), because that's apparently the kind of particular type of illegal immigration that bothers him the most. If your hypothesis were correct, we WOULDN'T have the silence you yourself admitted he has.

Trump is very vocal that he thinks the people from coming from Mexico and Latin America are terrorists, criminals, drug dealers, or all 3. That is cooky to me. But, I know these people. In a sense I have more life experience than Trump at 30 years old, since I've walked the path of the worker my whole life.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Just wondering if the proverbial heads are still shoved in the proverbial sand on this point.

Trump is a racist. Does anyone still at this late hour deny that?


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Yup.

Far less racist than slenderman... or the fat lady... now ya can hit the canned response...what about what about what about...,eh?

You do know that saying it over and over and over and over and... again does not change the reality, does not make your wet dreams come true... right?

 

[Nickyjo]

Rather, he calls out people crossing the border illegally. And doesn't call out the undocumented immigrants of ANY race, creed, color, or country of origin who overstay visas.

I think if your argument were sound of him being a 'racist' he would be calling out the "Brown" undocumented immigrants who came in on visas and overstayed them while not calling out 'white' ones. Yet he doesn't.

Give me a break. He singled out Mexicans. Said the country wasn’t sending us their best people. Called them rapists.. Said Hondurans would infest us. I assume he couldn’t care less about someone’s race. But racial fears are useful to him. It’s always bad to go Hitler in a debate, but I couldn’t resist. Looked up what the Nazis said about gypsies, the Roma. Those migrants too were said to be “infesting” the Reich, Trump’s verb about migrants. (At least he didn’t call them vermin.) Trump continues a proud tradition of demonizing “the other.” A 100 years ago he would have said the same thing about my people, southern Italians, or about Jews. 150 years ago it would have been the Irish. Same old song, different beat, as the Four Tops sang. Check your history. As the Romans said, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[ataraxia]

Sorry, I can't fit my head in the sand. It's all occupied by progressives and their alternate reality.

Yes, I am sure your head is out of the sand and very keenly still looking for Obama’s secret Kenyan birth certificate. Any one of these years now, it’ll show up, I am sure.

 

[Gondwanaland]

We don't need fantasies to see that Trump is an old school racist. The lies and attacks on immigrants to the south of us have convinced me of that.

fantasies seem to be about the only thing you have.

I was wrong about the numbers on the VISA overstays. I thought a good chunk of them were European, from anecdotal evidence I've seen working in hotels.

So that's a no-go for your hypothesis.

Trump did an executive order on VISA overstays here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...hancing-public-safety-interior-united-states/

“Many aliens who illegally enter the United States and those who overstay or otherwise violate the terms of their visas present a significant threat to national security and public safety,”

So he wasn't silent on it, and ALSO didn't say anything about brown people or Muslims, and called out all visa over-stayers, which include Europeans? Gotcha. Your argument is sort of falling apart around your head now, isn't it?

But, we know he doesn't actually write those executive orders, he just signs them.

See above.

Like I said, I was wrong about the numbers. I thought a disproportionate # were from Europe.

But that doesn't change anything that I said: And the numbers are indeed in my favor as I just noted that if your argument were sound, he would be calling out the 'brown' undocumented immigrants who came in legally on visas and then illegally overstayed them, while not calling out whites. Here you admit the numbers of those illegals are higher than border crossing ones, yet you also admit he is silent. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too here.

Trump is very vocal that he thinks the people from coming from Mexico and Latin America are terrorists, criminals, drug dealers, or all 3. That is cooky to me. But, I know these people. In a sense I have more life experience than Trump at 30 years old, since I've walked the path of the worker my whole life.

Mexico is not a race. Nor is Latin America. (both of which are not magical paradises without terrorists, criminals, or drug dealers, by the by) It may be cooky to you, or even others, or even me. But it's not racist by any sane definition of the word.

 

[Winston]

fantasies seem to be about the only thing you have.

In order to not see Trump's racism one must perform extraordinary mental acrobatics. There are many examples. The demonization of immigrants at the border as MS 13 gang members is racist.

So he wasn't silent on it, and ALSO didn't say anything about brown people or Muslims, and called out all visa over-stayers, which include Europeans? Gotcha. Your argument is sort of falling apart around your head now, isn't it?

Those executive orders are largely the work of aides. I sincerely doubt Trump has read it. However, the overstaying VISA component still casts doubt on Trump's motives for making illegal immigration a part of his agenda. How is it, one could miss the largest component of illegal immigration, in favor of pushing for a monument to racism, the racist border wall? The racist wall would do nothing to stop the overstaying of VISA's. So, what's going on there?

As for my argument, while I suffered a minor setback with the demographics of those who overstay VISA's, they still exist. There are 50,000 undocumented Irish immigrants.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/us/white-irish-undocumented-trnd/index.html

An estimated 50,000 undocumented Irish immigrants live in the United States -- they make up a small percentage of the more than 11 million undocumented immigrants living there, the majority of whom were born in Mexico.

So, I have a question for you. If Trump has tweet screamed into the abyss that these 50,000 Irish immigrants were Whitey Bulger in the making, would you consider that racist?

Also, Trump's push at the border is not supported by data, which shows that illegal immigration is down from

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

Since this chart shows, illegal immigration has been on a decline, why does Trump paint with a different brush? He has brough us such tweets as the immigrants are coming to infest our country, crime and drugs are "pouring in". The chart shows that Trump's would be carriers, have been leaving the country. I wonder why that is? It's almost as if drug traffickers are different from immigrants.

But that doesn't change anything that I said: And the numbers are indeed in my favor as I just noted that if your argument were sound, he would be calling out the 'brown' undocumented immigrants who came in legally on visas and then illegally overstayed them, while not calling out whites. Here you admit the numbers of those illegals are higher than border crossing ones, yet you also admit he is silent. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too here.



Mexico is not a race. Nor is Latin America. (both of which are not magical paradises without terrorists, criminals, or drug dealers, by the by) It may be cooky to you, or even others, or even me. But it's not racist by any sane definition of the word.

Trump's rhetoric is certainly racist garbage from a racist man. Imagine if he called 50,000 undocumented Irish immigrants Whitey Bulger and imagine how that would be perceived.

 

[celticwar17]

No, the demonization of immigrants as criminals is racist


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Illegal immigrants* it matters

and by default... an illegal immigrant has committed a crime..... by either illegally overstaying their visa or smuggling themselves across the border while avoiding authorities.

 

[Xelor]

Any Conservatives still deny Trump is a racist?

Only the ones so preoccupied with denying Trump's a felon that they don't have time to deny he's a racist.

 

[SmokethatGreen]

Just wondering if the proverbial heads are still shoved in the proverbial sand on this point.

Trump is a racist. Does anyone still at this late hour deny that?


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What Im I looking at to prove hes a racist?

 

[PleasantValley]

Everyone and anyone who disagrees with a liberal is a racist, according to liberals.
This is common knowledge.
If you win the disagreement, you are now a NAZI.
and....If you voted for Trump, you are an inbred uneducated hillbilly.
...all common knowledge. Just ask a liberal and they will verify it for you.

 

[PleasantValley]

Just wondering if the proverbial heads are still shoved in the proverbial sand on this point.

Trump is a racist. Does anyone still at this late hour deny that?


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I know i am not a racist because I carry around a bottle of hot sauce in my pocket.

 

[sangha]

True but that’s pretty common and hardly makes one racist. Play to win.

Racist acts makes one a racist

 

[Mycroft]

Wait...in that graphic...those numbers are in the MILLIONS???

And you think it's a good thing when it falls less than 2 million out of 12? Over the last 10 years???

Jesus!!

Dude...I look at that graphic and think, "Damn!! We have a SERIOUS problem!!"