Any Conservatives still deny Trump is a racist? (1 Viewer)

[JustHanging]

Everyone and anyone who disagrees with a liberal is a racist, according to liberals.

Don't be ridiculous. All the liberals I know regard the people who behave like racists to be racists. People who don't behave like racists aren't called racists.

Like Trump. He has a long and well documented history of racist behaviour, therefore we say he's a racist. Honestly, it's not that complicated.

This is common knowledge.

Then you must live in a very powerful bubble, where you let others tell you what to think. Sad for you. Sadder for your country.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Data marks less than I thought. I have personally seen many from Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Most don't overstay but, some do. Data marks less than I thought. I was wrong about that point. But, I worked in hotels that employed huge caravans :2razz: of Eastern Europeans through the J-1 VISA program. Some do overstay and seek marriage.

Still, overstaying VISA's remains a salient point on my behalf. Even if Europeans make up a smaller amount of those people than I thought.

There's also this nugget inside the wiki link:



Here's something I found on illegal Irish immigrants:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/us/white-irish-undocumented-trnd/index.html



This one acknowledges there is a racial element to immigration, which seems obvious to me. I think those pretending Trump's immigration push is based around law and order are being disingenuous. His constant demonization of the people at the border as MS-13, is very racist.

So, if they are safer people and good for the economy. That is lethal to the given reasons why the Trump administration is against them. I think the only reason we are left with is that Trump is prejudiced against them. And I believe the GOP itself is fighting for its life.

It's odd because hispanics and Muslims are ready to be conservative. They are family oriented, strict values oriented people, and highly religious. They are not about the secular left at all. But, the GOP has racist tendencies that drive them out.

Thank you for the additional data. Undocumented (the PC term for illegal) is an immigration status not a racial status. The crime data presented somehow does not acknowledge that "illegal" is synonymous with "criminal" and many (if not most) illegal immigrants have committed the crime of fraud (at the least) in order to gain US employment.

It may be comforting to you that for every 100K illegal immigrants only 3 additional homicides are committed yet their victim's families might not take comfort in that statistic. One other factor to consider is that the US born offspring of illegal immigrants are not presented as a separate category - they are, after all, here only due to illegal immigration yet presumably commit crime (at the higher rate?) as well.

 

[Fletch]

Don't be ridiculous. All the liberals I know regard the people who behave like racists to be racists. People who don't behave like racists aren't called racists.

Like Trump. He has a long and well documented history of racist behaviour, therefore we say he's a racist. Honestly, it's not that complicated.



Then you must live in a very powerful bubble, where you let others tell you what to think. Sad for you. Sadder for your country.

What I have found is that liberals like you dont know what the word 'racist' means so you misuse it all the time. But go ahead and give me your top two examples of Trump being a racist.

 

[calamity]

Just wondering if the proverbial heads are still shoved in the proverbial sand on this point.

Trump is a racist. Does anyone still at this late hour deny that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those heads are shoved somewhere alright. But, “sand” was not my first thought.

 

[Winston]

Illegal immigrants* it matters

and by default... an illegal immigrant has committed a crime..... by either illegally overstaying their visa or smuggling themselves across the border while avoiding authorities.

Trump doesn't mean just illegal immigrants. Those tweets where he speaks of an immigrant "infestation" give it away enough.

 

[Winston]

Wait...in that graphic...those numbers are in the MILLIONS???

And you think it's a good thing when it falls less than 2 million out of 12? Over the last 10 years???

Jesus!!

Dude...I look at that graphic and think, "Damn!! We have a SERIOUS problem!!"

I'm sure it does give you the vapours, which is why Trump is so successful at running his racist propaganda.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Trump doesn't mean just illegal immigrants.

That's nothing more than mind reading attempts.

Those tweets where he speaks of an immigrant "infestation" give it away enough.

An illegal immigrant 'infestation'. I don't agree with him, but that doesn't make him racist.

 

[Winston]

What I have found is that liberals like you dont know what the word 'racist' means so you misuse it all the time. But go ahead and give me your top two examples of Trump being a racist.

Trump's rhetoric towards immigrants, referring to their settling here as an "infestation" and the lies he tells about their crime rates.

Also him referring to African nations as ****hole countries, in the sense that he does not want to take African migrants and prefers immigrants from Europe.

Then I would point to Trump's reaction to the Paddock massacre contrasted with his reaction to the Saipov terrorist attack.

For Trump, though, the events pose dissimilar risks to the American people. One exemplifies the existential threat from radical terrorists that must be addressed. One — the much deadlier one — is just a thing that happens.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sponses/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a14956982867

 

[Winston]

That's nothing more than mind reading attempts.



An illegal immigrant 'infestation'. I don't agree with him, but that doesn't make him racist.

Ah, the trusty old chestnut of, I don't want you to interpret someone's words in a way that contradicts my position.

Certainly does make him one.

 

[Winston]

Thank you for the additional data. Undocumented (the PC term for illegal) is an immigration status not a racial status. The crime data presented somehow does not acknowledge that "illegal" is synonymous with "criminal" and many (if not most) illegal immigrants have committed the crime of fraud (at the least) in order to gain US employment.

It may be comforting to you that for every 100K illegal immigrants only 3 additional homicides are committed yet their victim's families might not take comfort in that statistic. One other factor to consider is that the US born offspring of illegal immigrants are not presented as a separate category - they are, after all, here only due to illegal immigration yet presumably commit crime (at the higher rate?) as well.

They commit crimes at lower rates, as the chart shows.

Most don't forge any documents to gain employment. There are many industries that pay under the table or do not E-verify.

The data contradicts Trump's rhetoric, when he would lead you to believe they are bringing drugs and crimes into your neighborhoods. But, the data shows that on average, communities of undocumented people are statistically safer than communities of native born. If crime were a major concern to someone, the data would advise one to move to a community of undocumented people, rather than that of one's own citizens, since you would be safer among their ranks, than among the ranks of American citizens.

 

[Winston]

Those heads are shoved somewhere alright. But, “sand” was not my first thought.

:lamo

 

[Gondwanaland]

In order to not see Trump's racism one must perform extraordinary mental acrobatics.

No, in order to imagine up racism, I've been watching you perform mental gymnastics that would win you the Gold in any Olympics in history, up to and including apparently convincing yourself that immigrants are a race, that Latin America is a race, that Muslims are a race, etc..

There are many examples. The demonization of immigrants at the border as MS 13 gang members is racist.

Some Illegal immigrant. And yeah, some are gang members, etc., and that's an issue that needs to be solved.

Those executive orders are largely the work of aides. I sincerely doubt Trump has read it. However, the overstaying VISA component still casts doubt on Trump's motives for making illegal immigration a part of his agenda. How is it, one could miss the largest component of illegal immigration, in favor of pushing for a monument to racism, the

No, it doesn't really. He has always focused on one aspect of illegal immigration. If he was racist he'd focus on 'brown' people in all of the aspects. But by your admission he doesn't with the overstaying visa bit.

racist border wall? The racist wall would do nothing to stop the overstaying of VISA's. So, what's going on there?

First, a border wall is a frickin' wall. It can't be racist. It's clear that racist is simply your go to insult that you spout out without giving any thought to how silly you look. Second, no one said a wall will stop overstaying of visas. Trump didn't say it, I didn't say it (I don't think the wall will do anything other than satisfy his base who want it to look like he's done something and who have demanded a wall - walls are easily dug under, and gone over, and broken), no one said it. But the wall is not racist, nor is Trump. Get a grip.

As for my argument, while I suffered a minor setback with the demographics of those who overstay VISA's, they still exist. There are 50,000 undocumented Irish immigrants.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/16/us/white-irish-undocumented-trnd/index.html

And plenty of 'brown' folks who overstay their visas.

Were he racist he'd be saying things about them and nothing about the Irish ones.

But so far the only thing you have found of him discussing visa overstays is an executive order which does the exact OPPOSITE of that and simply calls outBwho overstay their visas: brown, white, black, purple, magenta, whatever color.

So, I have a question for you. If Trump has tweet screamed into the abyss that these 50,000 Irish immigrants were Whitey Bulger in the making, would you consider that racist?

1. No
2. He didn't even say anything equivalent of that anyway.

Also, Trump's push at the border is not supported by data, which shows that illegal immigration is down from

5 facts about illegal immigration in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

Down by a whole 1.5 million. Those are some pretty high numbers, and sort of shoot your attempt at claiming it doesn't support his claims in the foot. 10 million people is a hell of a lot of people.

Since this chart shows, illegal immigration has been on a decline, why does Trump paint with a different brush? He has brough us such tweets as the immigrants are coming to infest our country, crime and drugs are "pouring in". The chart shows that Trump's would be carriers, have been leaving the country. I wonder why that is? It's almost as if drug traffickers are different from immigrants.

The chart just shows a net, not an actual decrease of the rate people coming in. But again, the chart shows nothing racist. Your foundational argument still is unsupported by anything other than rhetoric and fantasies.

Trump's rhetoric is certainly racist garbage from a racist man.

That's your opinion. Your opinion that someone is racist because they say things you don't like (especially when you've shown that you thing Muslims are a race) does not magically make someone racist

Imagine if he called 50,000 undocumented Irish immigrants Whitey Bulger and imagine how that would be perceived.

As dumb.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Ah, the trusty old chestnut of, I don't want you to interpret someone's words in a way that contradicts my position.

Certainly does make him one.

No, it does not. As we have established, you don't even grasp what a race is and seem to think illegal immigrants are a race and Muslims are a race, and that a frickin' wall is capable of racism. You are eminently the least capable person to identify racism.

 

[ttwtt78640]

They commit crimes at lower rates, as the chart shows.

Most don't forge any documents to gain employment. There are many industries that pay under the table or do not E-verify.

The data contradicts Trump's rhetoric, when he would lead you to believe they are bringing drugs and crimes into your neighborhoods. But, the data shows that on average, communities of undocumented people are statistically safer than communities of native born. If crime were a major concern to someone, the data would advise one to move to a community of undocumented people, rather than that of one's own citizens, since you would be safer among their ranks, than among the ranks of American citizens.

That (bolded above) assertion is pure BS. Your crime statistics were based on convictions. In order to get a conviction you must have an arrest. In order to have an arrest you must have the crime reported and evidence to identify/arrest a suspect. Illegal immigrant communities are far less likely to request any police presence (report crime) which makes them "statistically" safer simply because few (if any) are convicted of crimes not reported. That is the key reason cited for advocating "sanctuary" cities - to encourage the illegal immigrant crime victims to actually report crime.

 

[Winston]

No, in order to imagine up racism, I've been watching you perform mental gymnastics that would win you the Gold in any Olympics in history, up to and including apparently convincing yourself that immigrants are a race, that Latin America is a race, that Muslims are a race, etc..

Immigrants are not a race, but, that does not stop Trump from exploiting the demographics of our immigrant population. We see lies and falsehoods from Trump constantly about immigrants from Central America and Mexico. This makes Trump a racist. I don't care that you are in denial. That's not my problem. I'm here to push back on denials, but, ultimately, I don't think we will resolve this point.

Some Illegal immigrant. And yeah, some are gang members, etc., and that's an issue that needs to be solved.

Few illegal immigrants are MS 13. In fact MS 13 was born in America. Like the point has been bludgeoned home in this thread. Some people are criminals. Some people are not. Trump is a racist because he singles out black and brown people and attaches their nefarious outlets to them, but, does not do the same to white people. How come when Stephen Paddock killed hundreds we didn't get a rushed tweet, absent of fact about Paddock's possible involvement with Nazi's? Trump never wait for the facts when a Muslim or brown immigrant commits a crime. He rushes in with racism.

No, it doesn't really. He has always focused on one aspect of illegal immigration. If he was racist he'd focus on 'brown' people in all of the aspects. But by your admission he doesn't with the overstaying visa bit.

I find this a specious argument. Administrative crimes are less exploitative. What makes news? Many immigrants lack papers? Or, CRIMINALS AND RAPISTS pouring in by the millions?

First, a border wall is a frickin' wall. It can't be racist. It's clear that racist is simply your go to insult that you spout out without giving any thought to how silly you look. Second, no one said a wall will stop overstaying of visas. Trump didn't say it, I didn't say it (I don't think the wall will do anything other than satisfy his base who want it to look like he's done something and who have demanded a wall - walls are easily dug under, and gone over, and broken), no one said it. But the wall is not racist, nor is Trump. Get a grip.

The wall is a monument to racism. Just like the statues were to the black community, the wall would be to Mexico. More people overstay VISA's and the Wall won't stop them. So, if Trump were serious about fixing immigration his push would be on overstays and not phantom terrorists at the border.

And plenty of 'brown' folks who overstay their visas.

And Trump would have them deported in a heartbeat.

Were he racist he'd be saying things about them and nothing about the Irish ones.

We have got no rhetoric on Irish immigrants. If they come to Trump's attention and he comes out and says these 50,000 are all a part of an Irish gang headed by the ghost of Whitey Bulger, who have subsisted on a diet of nothing but bangers, mash, and whisky, you'd still come back with a deflection that "we can't really know if this man is a prejudiced moron."

But so far the only thing you have found of him discussing visa overstays is an executive order which does the exact OPPOSITE of that and simply calls outBwho overstay their visas: brown, white, black, purple, magenta, whatever color.

Specious point. The overstay factor shows Trump is not concerned with diminshing immigration and rather using it as a cudgel for racism and outrage.

 

[Winston]

1. No
2. He didn't even say anything equivalent of that anyway.
Down by a whole 1.5 million. Those are some pretty high numbers, and sort of shoot your attempt at claiming it doesn't support his claims in the foot. 10 million people is a hell of a lot of people.

Yes, he did and does say things equivalent all the time. What's with him making up that "unknown middle easterners with terrorist links" were among the caravan?

Illegal immigration was at its lowest point in a decade, but, a bunch of brown rapists and drug dealers are pouring in at the border! Better hide your wife and children, the browns are coming!

The chart just shows a net, not an actual decrease of the rate people coming in. But again, the chart shows nothing racist. Your foundational argument still is unsupported by anything other than rhetoric and fantasies.

That's your opinion. Your opinion that someone is racist because they say things you don't like (especially when you've shown that you thing Muslims are a race) does not magically make someone racist

The chart shows that immigration is down and it's really a non-issue since immigrants are safer people. So, the reason Trump pushes for a crackdown on immigration is because:

1. He's racist, he thinks whites have superior genetics.
2. He needs a scapgoat, as has been pointed out to you in this thread by another poster.

Cardinal was right. A Neo nazi could burn a cross on the White house lawn and people would still deny that was racist because we can't know for sure what's in his heart. :roll:

 

[Winston]

No, it does not. As we have established, you don't even grasp what a race is and seem to think illegal immigrants are a race and Muslims are a race, and that a frickin' wall is capable of racism. You are eminently the least capable person to identify racism.

You are eminently the most likely person to excuse it

 

[Winston]

That (bolded above) assertion is pure BS. Your crime statistics were based on convictions. In order to get a conviction you must have an arrest. In order to have an arrest you must have the crime reported and evidence to identify/arrest a suspect. Illegal immigrant communities are far less likely to request any police presence (report crime) which makes them "statistically" safer simply because few (if any) are convicted of crimes not reported. That is the key reason cited for advocating "sanctuary" cities - to encourage the illegal immigrant crime victims to actually report crime.

I disagree, immigrants are not just out there murdering people and then burying the bodies and covering them up because they're afraid of the cops? Nah, they are safe people.

 

[Fletch]

Trump's rhetoric towards immigrants, referring to their settling here as an "infestation" and the lies he tells about their crime rates.

Also him referring to African nations as ****hole countries, in the sense that he does not want to take African migrants and prefers immigrants from Europe.

Then I would point to Trump's reaction to the Paddock massacre contrasted with his reaction to the Saipov terrorist attack.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sponses/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a14956982867

Trump says dumb and racially insensitive things. But you, like every other liberal, confuses the racially insensitive for the racist. Its not racist to call third world countries **** holes, it is factually accurate

 

[JustHanging]

What I have found is that liberals like you dont know what the word 'racist' means so you misuse it all the time.

Oh I understand exactly what it means, so you must be the one who is confused. Here, this will help:

rac·ist
/ˈrāsəst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
"the comments have led to her being called a racist"
synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
"he was exposed as a racist"
(racially) discriminatory, racialist, prejudiced, bigoted
"a racist society"

adjective
noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist

1.
showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.

But go ahead and give me your top two examples of Trump being a racist.

Refusing to rent to blacks.

Leading the racist Birther Movement.

Publicly supporting Neo Nazis and the KKK at a White Supremacist rally, which had a stated purpose of uniting White Supremacists from across the country, and which had White Supremacists carrying Nazi flags and chanting Nazi slogans, by saying some of these were "very fine people".


I can go on, of course, Trump has a long history of racist behaviour.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I disagree, immigrants are not just out there murdering people and then burying the bodies and covering them up because they're afraid of the cops? Nah, they are safe people.

Discovery of a body does not count as a conviction, much less allow that 'murder' to be attributed to a particular statistical class of perp. Be careful what you cite as a crime statistic. You can disagree all day long but asserting that life in 'the hood' is safer due to a lower conviction rate is nonsense.

If the murder conviction rate is 1 for every 6 dead bodies discovered that does not automagically reduce the murder rate by over 75%.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ance-rate-killing-murder-shooting/1368099002/

 

[Fletch]

Oh I understand exactly what it means, so you must be the one who is confused. Here, this will help:

rac·ist
/ˈrāsəst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
"the comments have led to her being called a racist"
synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
"he was exposed as a racist"
(racially) discriminatory, racialist, prejudiced, bigoted
"a racist society"

adjective
noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist

1.
showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.




Refusing to rent to blacks.

Leading the racist Birther Movement.

Publicly supporting Neo Nazis and the KKK at a White Supremacist rally, which had a stated purpose of uniting White Supremacists from across the country, and which had White Supremacists carrying Nazi flags and chanting Nazi slogans, by saying some of these were "very fine people".


I can go on, of course, Trump has a long history of racist behaviour.

Nice try, but the only thing even remotely racist in the mans past is 'his refusal to rent to blacks.' That was 1972. The rest of your examples are crap and dont fit the definition you posted.

 

[Winston]

Discovery of a body does not count as a conviction, much less allow that 'murder' to be attributed to a particular statistical class of perp. Be careful what you cite as a crime statistic. You can disagree all day long but asserting that life in 'the hood' is safer due to a lower conviction rate is nonsense.

I'm not saying immigrant communities are the hood either. Some are in the hood some are not.

I'm saying the homicide rate is not lower due to unreported incidents in immigrant communities.

I'm saying the homicide rate is lower because there are fewer incidents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ttwtt78640]

I'm not saying immigrant communities are the hood either. Some are in the hood some are not.

I'm saying the homicide rate is not lower due to unreported incidents in immigrant communities.

I'm saying the homicide rate is lower because there are fewer incidents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know what you are saying but you have offered nothing to support that assertion. Obviously, if you count only solved crimes then you have eliminated all unsolved crimes. Fewer convictions does not mean fewer crimes. If six cars sped by and none were pulled over and ticketed then you have zero speeding convictions. If six dead bodies are found, riddled with bullets, then how many murder convictions is that?

 

[JustHanging]

Nice try, but the only thing even remotely racist in the mans past is 'his refusal to rent to blacks.' That was 1972. The rest of your examples are crap and dont fit the definition you posted.

Refusing to rent to blacks is only "remotely racist"? Leading the racist Birther Movement wasn't actually racist? Publicly supporting White Supremacists isn't racist?

Fletch, it's obvious why you are such a staunch Trump supporter. If anyone had any doubts before, you've made it very clear this post.