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Another Win For Socialism

SouthernDemocrat said:
We have Scandinavians on this forum that have no problem saying whatever they want. They also live in countries with crime rates that are a tiny fraction of ours, and that have a higher quality of life by every single measure.
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If I repeated in public in Sweden some of the disobliging things I say here about Islam I could face problems. Speech is more free in the US. And your media, because more diverse, is better.

Crime rates are probably not much lower in small town Sweden than is small town America. And our 'big' cities are small compared with US.

'Quality of life' measurement is entirely subjective. My impression is that the Q of L in Vermont, where I have family, is at least as good as in the Swedish county of Uppland where I live which has a similar sized population.

Finally the US is far more democratic than Sweden.
 
Sweden said:
I disagree. There are many well-informed people is the US who know that for a country to be fully socialist business and industry must be in state hands.

If one looks at the stock market page in a Swedish paper one can see at a glance that the free market is alive and well in all sectors.
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Dude, Republicans over here will call CAFE standards "Socialist", they call SCHIP "Socialist", hell some even call public schools "Socialist". They sure as hell see Sweden as socialist.
 
Winston said:
I guess advocating for campaign finance reform, single-payer, and less war makes you a Marxist nowadays.
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Advocating overnment control of the provate sector makes one a communist.
 
apdst said:
Advocating overnment control of the provate sector makes one a communist.
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No Democrats call for the seizure of the means of production. Not one.
 
Excon said:
Finance reform = restricting free speech and restricting freedom of association

Single-payer = robbing peter to give to Paul

Less war? Not even.

If that is marxist, okay.
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i disagree with campaign finance reform. we should institute new rules on that.. it is the equivalent of the electoral college, only for corporations versus citizens instead of mob versus states.


I'm also not necessarily against Single-payer, but it has to be done properly.
 
apdst said:
Not one?

LEADING DEMOCRAT Calls For Nationalizing Oil Industry!
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That's the same website that called Linda Sarsour a radical Islamist part of Hamas. They're ridiculous. That's one industry and one person. Where's the Democratic leadership calling for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a seizure of the means of production? The fact is the right, does not understand socialism. Anyone that calls Obama a socialist automatically loses all credibility on the subject. Socialism to the right is what tides are to Bill O'Reilly.
 
DamnYankee said:
Liberty, freedom, limited gov't, less taxes and regulations, free speech, living one's life to the fullest, all very ugly to leftists.
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If your are an orphaned child from a religious or racial minority or other vulnerable demographic, born to poverty, with no access to an education and no opportunities because you are systematically discriminated against because of the color of your skin or the religion of your parents, when you are told that you are innately inferior to others and that's why you're in the shape you're in so you should even stop trying (because racists have freedom of speech too, you know), then... guess what is going to happen to your liberty, freedom, and ability to live life to the fullest?

And if you think you or your kids are too smart or good looking to ever be that kid, think again. There is a dangerously naïve arrogance among conservatives these days, thinking that the privileges they enjoy have everything to do with themselves as individuals, and nothing to do with contingent social/cultural/economic factors which can change on a dime, until they realize they are vulnerable too. They are not that special.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c
 
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Winston said:
That's the same website that called Linda Sarsour a radical Islamist part of Hamas. They're ridiculous. That's one industry and one person. Where's the Democratic leadership calling for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a seizure of the means of production? The fact is the right, does not understand socialism. Anyone that calls Obama a socialist automatically loses all credibility on the subject. Socialism to the right is what tides are to Bill O'Reilly.
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Don't like source (Who didn't see that coming?)

Try it out on video (is it live, or is it Memorex?)

https://youtu.be/Y0BdKkEKTrs
 
ataraxia said:
If your are orphaned child from a religious or racial minority or other vulnerable demographic, born to poverty, with no access to an education and no opportunities because you are systematically discriminated against because of the color of your skin or the religion of your parents, when you are told that you are innately inferior to others and that's why you're in the shape you're in so you should even stop trying (because racists have freedom of speech too, you know), then... guess what is going to happen to your liberty, freedom, and ability to live life to the fullest?

And if you think you or your kids are too smart or good looking to ever be that kid, think again. There is a dangerously naïve arrogance among conservatives these days, until they realize that the very policies they keep pushing for end up hurting them too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c
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Nationalization of the school system is a Democrat policy.
 
apdst said:
Don't like source (Who didn't see that coming?)

Try it out on video (is it live, or is it Memorex?)

https://youtu.be/Y0BdKkEKTrs
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So should we be getting rid of all our public schools, fire departments, police departments, etc... too, because they are socialist institutions?
 
ataraxia said:
If your are orphaned child from a religious or racial minority or other vulnerable demographic, born to poverty, with no access to an education and no opportunities because you are systematically discriminated against because of the color of your skin, when you are told that you are innately inferior to others and that's why you're in the shape you're in so you should even stop trying (because racists have freedom of speech too, you know), then... guess what is going to happen to your liberty, freedom, and ability to live life to the fullest?

And if you think you or your kids are too smart or good looking to ever be that kid, think again. There is a dangerously naïve arrogance among conservatives these days, until they realize that the very policies they keep pushing for end up hurting them too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqnk4kt2Z-c
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That's funny. Leftists routinely tell people they aren't good enough, life is hard, you can't do that etc. Didn't you listen to Globalist Granny speeches? LMAO Suppressing the people and making them dependent on big gov't is a leftist specialty. Suck then in with a nice check courtesy of the taxpayers.

I grew up poor. Been there, done that. I didn't allow leftists to brainwash me into believing I needed then to make it. I did that myself with no gov't help.
 
DamnYankee said:
I grew up poor. Been there, done that. I didn't allow leftists to brainwash me into believing I needed then to make it. I did that myself with no gov't help.
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Did you have enough to eat? Who was paying for that? Because many kids don't have enough to eat. What about a house? Because many kids don't have that either.

And who was paying for your school? Did you have health care growing up? Vaccinations? Who was paying for all that?

No, you didn't do it all yourself. Sorry to break the news.
 
ataraxia said:
So should we be getting rid of all our public schools, fire departments, police departments, etc... too, because they are socialist institutions?
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All, or none; the usual Leftist mantra.
 
apdst said:
All, or none; the usual Leftist mantra.
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No. That's the conservative mantra: that if you want to even protect the basic human rights and dignity of US citizens, as signed by the US in the Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (including the right to food, clean water, a basic education, and access to healthcare), then you must be a Marxist communist dictator who wants to make everyone dependent on big nanny government so you can take their liberty away.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes socialism is always such a failure, just look at all the starving Scandinavians.....
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We all know those countries aren't socialist.Just like most countries ( including this one) , they are hybrids.

But the general rule is that a more a country leans toward socialism, the worse it gets.

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
The Scandinavians embrace a brand of free-market capitalism that exists in conjunction with a large welfare state, known as the “Nordic Model,” which includes many policies that democratic socialists would likely abhor.
 
KLATTU said:
We all know those countries aren't socialist.Just like most countries ( including this one) , they are hybrids.

But the general rule is that a more a country leans toward socialism, the worse it gets.

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
The Scandinavians embrace a brand of free-market capitalism that exists in conjunction with a large welfare state, known as the “Nordic Model,” which includes many policies that democratic socialists would likely abhor.
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There are no pure capitalist countries in the world. And it's not because they are too dumb and stupid.

The closest we ever got to pure capitalism was the US and wester Europe in the gilded age: when you had industrialists which were making more than the entire GDP of entire nations, while employing kids as young as 8 to work 80 hour weeks in their factories- and the kids still didn't have enough to eat. And left free and alone, it was only getting worse, not better. The only thing that stopped the trend were child labor laws, workplace safety laws, minimum wage laws, and other sensible regulations. And that's where the hybrid economic system started, and has stayed with us.

So no, the general is NOT that a more a country leans toward socialism, the worse it gets.
 
apdst said:
Don't like source (Who didn't see that coming?)

Try it out on video (is it live, or is it Memorex?)

https://youtu.be/Y0BdKkEKTrs
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Maxine Waters made that statement 9 years ago and conservatives have unsuccessfully tried to Red Bait Obama since then. She is not a socialist. Anyone who says she is, is a right wing hack trying to Red Bait Democrats. Socialism in America lost with the dissolution of the USSR. That was the nail in the coffin for socialists in America. Eugene Debs was a socialist. Learn about socialism before you make statements about Democrats that make you look like a conservative attempting a hatchet job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ataraxia said:
No. That's the conservative mantra: that if you want to even protect the basic human rights and dignity of US citizens, as signed by the US in the Declaration of Human Rights in 1948 (including the right to food, clean water, a basic education, and access to healthcare), then you must be a Marxist communist dictator who wants to make everyone dependent on big nanny government so you can take their liberty away.
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When did I say anything about getting rid of fire and police departments? When did I say we shouldn't help the old and the sick?

Like I said, you people see only two choices: communism, or anarchy.
 
Winston said:
Maxine Waters made that statement 9 years ago and conservatives have unsuccessfully tried to Red Bait Obama since then. She is not a socialist. Anyone who says she is, is a right wing hack trying to Red Bait Democrats. Socialism in America lost with the dissolution of the USSR. That was the nail in the coffin for socialists in America. Eugene Debs was a socialist. Learn about socialism before you make statements about Democrats that make you look like a conservative attempting a hatchet job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nice denial.
 
KLATTU said:
We all know those countries aren't socialist.Just like most countries ( including this one) , they are hybrids.

But the general rule is that a more a country leans toward socialism, the worse it gets.

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
The Scandinavians embrace a brand of free-market capitalism that exists in conjunction with a large welfare state, known as the “Nordic Model,” which includes many policies that democratic socialists would likely abhor.
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But if that is the general rule, then the nordic countries should be hell holes because they a much more socialist than any other hybrid system. Democrats in this country would be solidly conservative in Nordic countries, yet they get called socialists here.
 
ataraxia said:
Did you have enough to eat? Who was paying for that? Because many kids don't have enough to eat. What about a house? Because many kids don't have that either.

And who was paying for your school? Did you have health care growing up? Vaccinations? Who was paying for all that?

No, you didn't do it all yourself. Sorry to break the news.
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Yep, went hungry at times, wore hand-me-downs, one pair of shoes, 6 of us on a meager single income, no insurance, parents save and paid cash, and not a single dollar from the taxpayer. I worked and save for my education, sometimes at two jobs, got a degree, a wonderful successful career at which I am now retired. Semi actually, but marketed my skills and work two days a week, with two retirement incomes making more money now than I did when I was working, I'm a minimalist so most of my money goes into the bank or is invested. And yes, all that myself. See, I didn't listen to people like you bombard me with negativity about not being capable of doing great things. That is what is upsetting to leftists, people not buying into the you-need-a-big-gov't-paycheck-to-make-it nonsense. There are a lot of people out there that applied themselves and did something to change their circumstances.
 
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