And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [W:54

[obvious Child]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

ROFL... Where to start...

Your first line...

Sure, as soon as you prove your assertions.. First prove this warming is unprecedented throughout history. Second, prove there is currently a "massive natural disaster" occurring.

Because we have no record of such rapid warming in Earth's history without some massive event. I can't point to a set of time lines that do not exist. Also, I never said there was a "massive natural disaster" occurring currently. It's funny how you laugh at me but show you can't read properly.

No we can prove chemistry right, by pointing out the entire ocean floor is alkaline... If you do not know what that means in terms of this particular point/subject, please refer to any basic chemistry book.

The entire floor is covered by vents? Can you prove this? Besides, what are you after with this? The ocean is not made up of just its floor. And the notion that the floor's alkaline can neutralize the increasing acidification through the water column quickly is pretty laughable.

See previous statement.. Repeating ignorance doesn't make it seem smarter.

Funny coming from someone who thought I was saying that massive natural disaster is currently occurring.

Says the guy who just cut up the mans post and removed all context from their discussion... WHich I just reciprocated... Irony is cold..

And how did I do this at all?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/envir...ce-cap-grows-60-w-54-a-10.html#post1062347637

That's his original post I quoted.

What are you talking about?

 

[obvious Child]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Ice cores are a dubious study at best... They assume that at that spot in that point and time, it was representative of the GH gas concentration levels all over the planet. A bold assumption to put it mildly.

Uh, do you understand the concept of diffusion?

Frankly I call it guess work given status by alarmism and frivolously given grant money for anything with global warming attached..

Uh huh. That explains why winter ice is melting earlier and earlier. And why organisms are moving towards the poles. Because ice cores are a fraud?

No wonder why America is a joke in the scientific community.

 

[Threegoofs]

No wonder why America is a joke in the scientific community.

Please don't conflate American science with gslack.

That association makes me want to take a shower.

 

[obvious Child]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Please don't conflate American science with gslack.

That association makes me want to take a shower.

I don't even know why I bother with this sub-forum.

The level of basic statistical ignorance and science idiocy is magnified here a thousand times. We already have math and science ignorant posters everywhere else, but here, it's particularly bad. I think I'm out. When your opponent is outright lying about what you said and ignoring your actual arguments from the start, it's not a good sign. Just a reminder why I generally don't post here. People can't even read graphs right.

 

[Threegoofs]

I don't even know why I bother with this sub-forum.

The level of basic statistical ignorance and science idiocy is magnified here a thousand times. We already have math and science ignorant posters everywhere else, but here, it's particularly bad. I think I'm out. When your opponent is outright lying about what you said and ignoring your actual arguments from the start, it's not a good sign. Just a reminder why I generally don't post here. People can't even read graphs right.

I agree. But the psychological pathology of the opponents is fascinating, to some extent, isn't it?

 

[obvious Child]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

I agree. But the psychological pathology of the opponents is fascinating, to some extent, isn't it?

I hit that extent a while back. This subforum is as bad as that Middle Eastern one. I have no desire to post there and I have no desire now to post here.

Failure to understand things like diffusion tells me this "science"-oriented subforum is largely free of science. At least the creationists here have SOME grasp of biology and chemistry. It's embarrassing when YECs have a better understanding of science than these guys.

Enjoy fighting those who cannot grasp the basics of chemistry. I'm out.

 

[gslack]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Because we have no record of such rapid warming in Earth's history without some massive event. I can't point to a set of time lines that do not exist. Also, I never said there was a "massive natural disaster" occurring currently. It's funny how you laugh at me but show you can't read properly.



The entire floor is covered by vents? Can you prove this? Besides, what are you after with this? The ocean is not made up of just its floor. And the notion that the floor's alkaline can neutralize the increasing acidification through the water column quickly is pretty laughable.



Funny coming from someone who thought I was saying that massive natural disaster is currently occurring.



And how did I do this at all?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/envir...ce-cap-grows-60-w-54-a-10.html#post1062347637

That's his original post I quoted.

What are you talking about?

EXACTLY!!! No record, period.. WHat we have is best-guesses using theory. That's it... You assume an ice core can give an idea of temperature of a given point in time, based on the the assumption that higher concentrations of GH gases at a given depth in said core, are a result of greater warming. This also assumes their assumption on the time scale is accurate, which is based on bits of material trapped in that core at certain depths. And all of this assumes near uniform melt and freeze patterns, based upon current climate conditions. As if all the assumptions aren't enough, we have to understand that gases thermodynamic properties change with temperature, and GH gases even more so. Colder conditions, would lead to more dense air closer to the colder surface, and ice would be a colder surface.. Meaning of course higher concentrations of GH gases to be trapped in the ice..

Vents? What the heck are you talking about dude? Alkaline, as in relatively low Hydrogen ion count per.. ROFL, for all of your talk about people not understanding basic middle school chemistry, you don't even know the very basic concepts or terms...

alkaline - definition of alkaline by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

al·ka·line (lk-ln, -ln)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or containing an alkali.
2.
a. Having a pH greater than 7.
b. Having a relatively low concentration of hydrogen ions.

LOL, too funny..

Your words.... "Okay, show me a period of time where temperatures increased this quickly without some massive natural disaster. I'm not going to hold my breath."

Those words imply that today, we are in some sort of disaster state. So if you meant a man-made disaster, equivalent to a natural one of grand scale, the case is yours to make.. Call it man-made if you like but the task of proving it remains..

And yes it is funny because you implied we are in such a state now, and caused by ourselves as well. Yet now you hide behind wordplay rather than prove your contention...

And his post you quoted which was in response to your previous post where you did the exact same thing. Not only to him but to others. He reciprocated your silliness, as did I.. My greater meaning in that was the fact you addressed a link of his, which was not included in either the quote of him by you, or your response. You were arguing a link he supplied, yet you left it out of both his quoted words and your reply.. Understand?

 

[Threegoofs]

No we can prove chemistry right, by pointing out the entire ocean floor is alkaline... If you do not know what that means in terms of this particular point/subject, please refer to any basic chemistry book..

Yes. Ocean acidification is impossible because the ocean floor is alkaline.

Genius speaks. And he read a basic chemistry book a long time ago.

 

[gslack]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Uh, do you understand the concept of diffusion?



Uh huh. That explains why winter ice is melting earlier and earlier. And why organisms are moving towards the poles. Because ice cores are a fraud?

No wonder why America is a joke in the scientific community.

Uh, do you understand the concept of assumption versus observed fact? Obviously not...

No, America is not.. How do you think we manage to remain so far advanced in comparison to other countries in terms of military technology? Why do you think so many scientists and doctors end up working here? That's as big a lie as any told these days.. NASA, NOAA, and a whole alphabet soup of climate research organizations have their main facilities or heads here.. So knock off the diversionary lie..

Dude you just regurgitated propagandist hogwash, and you talk of science? HA!

 

[gslack]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

I don't even know why I bother with this sub-forum.

The level of basic statistical ignorance and science idiocy is magnified here a thousand times. We already have math and science ignorant posters everywhere else, but here, it's particularly bad. I think I'm out. When your opponent is outright lying about what you said and ignoring your actual arguments from the start, it's not a good sign. Just a reminder why I generally don't post here. People can't even read graphs right.

LOL, yes,yes, you are way too smart for us that's why you must talk the resident troll for assurances..

 

[Threegoofs]

LOL, yes,yes, you are way too smart for us that's why you must talk the resident troll for assurances..

At least I know that NASA and NOAA are US government agencies. LOL!

 

[gslack]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Yes. Ocean acidification is impossible because the ocean floor is alkaline.

Genius speaks. And he read a basic chemistry book a long time ago.

One big reason you are laughed at goofs.. I say one thing, you make it out to be something more..

CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere alone cannot make the oceans acidic. Sorry but it just won't happen dude. It takes a number of factors all to happen at once. Is that better silly? Need a primer on the concepts or can you keep up?

Case in point... Most corals (particularly susceptible to acidity in oceans) became most common during a time when the atmospheric CO2 levels were believed to be as much as 10 times greater than they are today. How so if what alarmists say is true?

Careful goofs, you won't like this better as it goes on...

 

[gslack]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

At least I know that NASA and NOAA are US government agencies. LOL!

LOL, Too bad your knew pal thinks they are part of the laughing stock of science huh...ROFL..

 

[flogger]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Okay, show me a period of time where temperatures increased this quickly without some massive natural disaster. I'm not going to hold my breath.

No problem. There have been many such phases over recent millenia and the evidence comes from all over the world, the rate of change today is clearly quite unremarkable not that you will be prepared to accept that of course.

C3: Temp Readings: Ice Core/Other Proxy Data

Feel free to exhale now

How would you know that without any understanding of chemistry? Ocean acidification happens as more and more Co2 is released into the atmosphere. We can test this. To say it's not happening is saying chemistry is wrong.

So what ?

Disagrees with what? He thinks that temperatures aren't going to rise for decades?

Please prove how you know that they will whilst I phone the Nobel committee :lol:

Funny coming from a guy who doesn't know what ocean acidification we can measure exists. You apparently know enough science to spot lies but you don't know enough basic chemistry to demonstrate even 7th grade mastery of the subject. Sorry if I don't believe you that you understand basic science.

You are the guy obsessed with the new ocean acidification scare story . I couldnt care less frankly but heres some food for thought

http://www.c3headlines.com/are-oceans-becoming-acidic/

Hey bud, what's the temperature they link with those Co2 levels? I noticed you left that out. Why is that?

Is that the sound of goalposts moving ? Make up your mind is it temperatures which obsess you or CO 2 ?

Please read and inwardly digest this

Plants Need CO2 - Carbon Dioxide Emissions - Global Warming Climate Change Facts

Huh. Funny, I said temperature. Why is it that you are avoiding just that

Because temperatures have stopped climbing and hence are irrelevent. Why are you avoiding that !

Enjoy fighting those who cannot grasp the basics of chemistry. I'm out.

That line is quite amusing given you've never actually discussed those anywhere but instead alluded to others alleged ignorance of them .This is rather odd given that you brought the whole irrelevent chemistry/acidification deflection up in the first place ! :shock:

 

[Threegoofs]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

One big reason you are laughed at goofs.. I say one thing, you make it out to be something more..

CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere alone cannot make the oceans acidic. Sorry but it just won't happen dude. It takes a number of factors all to happen at once. Is that better silly? Need a primer on the concepts or can you keep up?

All things being equal, CO2 concentrations will definitely make the oceans MORE acidic. I dont know if you are playing games and pretending that acidity is some special dividing line, or that some magical buffer will stop any pH change or some other nutty denier argument that is pieced together with random facts that actual, real sciencists disagree with.

 

[Deuce]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

As I said, AGW is all about our C02 output, everything else is considered "natural".

Yes, and thus writing laws regarding natural variables would be silly, yes?

 

[jmotivator]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

You will argue that we don't have enough data till doomsday. It is childish to hold a view that depends on a non-existent entity to counteract a irrefutable law of nature.

I will argue that 100 years is not a significant trend measured against a data set with 500 year data points until the laws of mathematics and statistics cease to exist.

We don't need history to know that increased Co2 will warm the planet and acidify the oceans. Do you think God will protect us from the effects? If not God then why is Earth immune from the universal laws of matter?

The IPCC is arguing a warming that is more than double what CO2 would normally contribute to climate. It is these positive forcings and negative forcings that are being debated.

The "acidification" argument is a misnomer meant to scare people. The ocean remains alkaline. That is like saying that a plane that is descending in altitude is mining. In fact, if the oceans are warming then their ability to trap CO2 is declining "by the universal laws of matter", so in order to worry about the decrease in pH in the ocean we have to assume that the ocean is cooling OR that shellfish are prospering and sequestering carbon in their shells.

Either way it isn't nearly as scary as "OCEAN ACIDIFICATION!!" is trying to portray.

 

[jmotivator]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Uh Huh.

Yup.

Since when were we only considering just EPICA Dome C? You do realize there are plenty of other ice core drill sites no? Or are you just cherry picking the ones you know are long between drills?

uh, the Vostok ice drill is essentially a single long piece of ice.

You seem to be confusing the points researchers put on the charts, like this:

File:Vostok 420ky 4curves insolation.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As the only data points we have, when in actuality those are just for easier reference and the data points are much more frequent than 600 years. Between 3,000 and 3,200 there are at least a dozen data points.

Are you completely sure you are reading that graph right?



Between 3000 and 3200 METERS there are probably a few dozen. But 3000 to 3200 METERS corresponds to about 60,000 years in elapsed time. 60,000/36= 1666 years per data point.

That appears to be as you cannot read graphs properly.

It's not me with that problem, apparently.

Doesn't change the biological data we are seeing, from plants and animals moving towards the pole, seeding and germination happening earlier as well as winter thaws happening earlier and earlier.

Plants and animals don't read the blogs. Any movement of a given species is due to local climate, not global climate. And even then you can't assume all the reports are trustworthy... the polar bear was supposed to be going extinct but SURPRISE! Their numbers are increasing.

 

[gslack]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

All things being equal, CO2 concentrations will definitely make the oceans MORE acidic. I dont know if you are playing games and pretending that acidity is some special dividing line, or that some magical buffer will stop any pH change or some other nutty denier argument that is pieced together with random facts that actual, real sciencists disagree with.

No they are not goofs.. It was a poorly conceived scare tactic that has failed to meet reality's standards.If you don't know, look into it.

P.S. BTW, this will be my last interaction with you. I don't need another infraction for your trolling...

 

[code1211]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Cute. Another person who doesn't understand statistics. The data for temperature rises over the past 40+ years has shown a distinct and steady line of temperature increases. If you look at a small bit of data as deniers like you do, do, it looks erratic. But when you look at the long term data, there is no question at ALL that there is a clear line of increasing temperatures. There are years where it doesn't rise as much, goes down a bit, but the long term data all shows temperatures rising.



Or they just got better data.



How are the temperatures surprisingly low? Do you have any concept of ocean acidification?

The notion that the planet is cooling is insane. Plants are speeding up their germination timings to coincide with warming temperature coming sooner. Animals and plants are heading towards the poles every year. Winter melts are happening earlier and earlier. None of this supports a cooling planet at all.

It's funny to see "conservatives" having to essentially call the woodsmen and outdoorsmen who've spent their lives out in the country liars to argue that the planet isn't warming.

Your argument is devoid of data and reference.

The planet is cooling and has been for about 12 years.

When the ARGO Array was deployed the experts expected the array to show temperatures that were higher than they actually were and are. That is why they were surprisingly low. They surprised the experts.

Since then, the statistically insignificant change has been one of cooling.

Every data gathering agency on the planet agrees that the planet is cooling.

Does ocean acidification mean warming?

The planet seems to warm for 20 years as it did between about 1980 and 2000. It seems to have relative stability as it did between about 1940 and 1980. This is a 60 year cycle that has been repeating since 1700. If the cycle was still in effect, there should have been an end to the rapid waring since 1980 in about the year 2000. What do you know? It happened. Again.

If the cycle is dominant, this should have happened.

If CO2 is dominant, this should not have happened.

Wood for Trees: Interactive Graphs

http://people.duke.edu/~ns2002/pdf/Mazzarella-Scafetta-60-yr.pdf

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

Yes, and thus writing laws regarding natural variables would be silly, yes?

No sillier that writing laws for C02 which is one of 100 or even 1000 natural variables but at least you now admit AGW is 100% about C02, you're learning.

 

[Deuce]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

No sillier that writing laws for C02 which is one of 100 or even 1000 natural variables but at least you now admit AGW is 100% about C02, you're learning.

No, I'm clarifying your position. (and mine) The primary focus of legislation related to AGW is targeting CO2 emissions. It is not the only thing.

AGW does not suggest CO2 is the only human-influenced variable. There are other industrial emissions of note, both with warming and cooling forcings, land-use changes, albedo changes (generally due to said emissions), and I suppose technically any number of other miniscule details.

Absolutism is a common error. Try not to fall into that trap.

 

[gslack]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

No, I'm clarifying your position. (and mine) The primary focus of legislation related to AGW is targeting CO2 emissions. It is not the only thing.

AGW does not suggest CO2 is the only human-influenced variable. There are other industrial emissions of note, both with warming and cooling forcings, land-use changes, albedo changes (generally due to said emissions), and I suppose technically any number of other miniscule details.

Absolutism is a common error. Try not to fall into that trap.

But they aren't trying to get a methane tax, are they.. They want a carbon tax, and Carbon Dioxide is the reason they do so.. Your argument lacks reality. The fact is they seek a carbon tax and do so based on man-made CO2 emissions. They make their position clear on this. Denial of purpose, based on convenience is one reason people are waking up to this crazy scheme.

 

[Sandokan]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

The planet Earth is self regulating. Warming and cooling are natural cycles of the planet. Global warming, now the so call “man made climate change”, has never been about truth but about control. It's an irresistible and enormous power grab by governments.

It doesn't take much to put two and two together. The earth has been cooling for quite a while now. You can't argue with the facts. Still, there are people getting very rich over the global warming scam.

 

[flogger]

Re: And now it's global COOLING! Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% [

The planet Earth is self regulating. Warming and cooling are natural cycles of the planet. Global warming, now the so call “man made climate change”, has never been about truth but about control. It's an irresistible and enormous power grab by governments.

It doesn't take much to put two and two together. The earth has been cooling for quite a while now. You can't argue with the facts. Still, there are people getting very rich over the global warming scam.

Yup . They finally found a method to tax the air we breath and its coming to an ever inflating energy bill near you soon

Enjoy !