America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamentalism

[MSgt]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

The US has declared a "holy war" against Muslims with Bush fooling the American evangelists to thinking he is God.
US have murdered many women, men children and elderly in Iraq
Still no riots over the patriot act
the US is not demanding everyone to transform to christians but they are certainly trying, with war to get people to become christian and democratic.
Not seen a single report of anyone from the US strapping bombs on themself
No hijackins yet except countries.
Many videos show US soldiers torturing Iraqies, they have been distributed.

Bwahaha. There's a whole lot of lies and deceit in this one. Your desperation continues to rise to greater hieghts. My first reaction was to address your trolling officially. However.....

1) "The US has declared a "holy war" against Muslims with Bush fooling the American evangelists to thinking he is God."

So your needy exhoneration has you believing that it is not the Islamic Brotherhood (1928) that leads the pulse of the historical holy war on the west, but that America has a holy war against Muslims? Your desperate plea to the world is for them to believe that President Bush has fooled Americans into thinking he is "God?"

2) "US have murdered many women, men children and elderly in Iraq."

So your needy exhoneration is to pretend that the deaths (I mean murder as you need to call it) of women, men, children, and the elderly are a shame while celebrating the civilian deaths during WWII as acceptable? You accuse the civilian deaths in a war where America is trying to give them something they would not have had otherwise while dismissing the deaths of unarmed blacks in western Africa in numerous locations by French troops?

3) "Still no riots over the patriot act"

A roiot? And why would Amer9icans riot over something that can be dealt with through legislation? We aren't in France where the French riot and burn up the city streets because of mistratment and we certainly don't take to the streets for a lessoned work week with more pay.

4) the US is not demanding everyone to transform to christians but they are certainly trying, with war to get people to become christian and democratic.

Really? Is this what is happening? Are you suggesting that Democracy equals Christianity? We want Muslims to become Christians? And what fantasy have you conhured up now where we live in a world where Muslims are executed for changing religions and "infidels" are the target of conversion?

5) "Not seen a single report of anyone from the US strapping bombs on themself"

And why would there be? Do you even know why Islamists do this?

6) "No hijackins yet except countries."

Are you referring to Saddam's Iraq? The one your country supported to the very end? The Iraq that belongs to Iraqis and in no way ever been the subject of American property?

7) "Many videos show US soldiers torturing Iraqies, they have been distributed."

Many? The very few soldiers caught acting like college fraternity idiots constitute as torture to you? And where are these "many" videos? Isn't it true that you are merely running off of anti-American exxagerations that never came to proof? Now if you like I can produce material about the French in western Africa. We could also discuss the actions of the French in Somalia along with the Italians and the Belgians.




You post better when you are under control and less of an angry wreck. At least then you aren't irrational and too desperate.

 

[Tashah]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

The US has declared a "holy war" against Muslims.

I checked the Congressional Record. Nothing there. Please provide a US Congressional citation for this statement.

 

[WMDLIAR]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

the christian conservatives at least arent going around killing people.

What planet do you live on?

 

[nort_12345]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

they are, iraq is a good example

so is this:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

 

[nort_12345]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

radical christians and radical muslims are similar. they both want the rest of the world to believe what they believe and they both are terrorists (http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm). the radical muslims are imo, more extreme in using violence.

 

[nort_12345]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

i don't consider the 'christians' or 'muslims' that commit acts of terrorism to be christians or muslims. neither christianity nor islam promote terrorism. so the radicals that say that they are christian or muslim are either lying or they don't know what a christian/muslim is.

 

[jfuh]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

radical christians and radical muslims are similar. they both want the rest of the world to believe what they believe and they both are terrorists (http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm). the radical muslims are imo, more extreme in using violence.

Radical islamics are still in the 14th century.
Only by spreading education not wars can we allow the muslims and christians to realize the dangers and corruption of radical sectarianism.

 

[nort_12345]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Only by spreading education not wars can we allow the muslims and christians to realize the dangers and corruption of radical sectarianism.

you've got it right. you can't stop violence w/ violence

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

so is this:

Violence at US Abortion Clinics

:shock: :shock:

 

[MSgt]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

you've got it right. you can't stop violence w/ violence

History might not agree with you. We sure didn't hug two World Wars away. I think you probably meant something else.


It is very true that Christian fundamentalist have historically proven to be as dangerous as Islamic fundamentalist. But, dismissing a history of Islamic Radicalism that continues today to embrace select points where Christianity has bathed in blood is as ignorant as the fundamentalist. Christian Radicals are quite content with harming themselves or punishing those within the society (only seven have died form abortion clinic bombings in the U.S. ) Islamic fundamentalists are quite content and even have a need to punish not only individuals or sects from within, but in other civilizations.

However, given the title of the thread, "America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamentalism," we are talking about something else. The purpose here seems to be about bashing Christianity (Conservative ones). You see, by incorporating all Conservative American Christians into the same category as isolated Islamic fumdamnetalists (which seperates the idiots from the rest of the Muslim world), the author is seeking a level of persecution. But the truth here is that the bashers don't seem to know anything about Christianity or Islam. And that their prejudices against Christianity is as absurd as the prejudices that fundamentals have within religion.

 

[QueerNation]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

the christian conservatives at least arent going around killing people.

Sure they are. They bomb abortion clinics, bomb federal buildings and cause the murder of innocent children in Waco. I think the US is really fooling itself if it thinks there is a greater threat from Islamic fundies than Christian fundies. Christian fundies kill with deception and lies, and their prey is innocent kids who they seduce with their destructive ideology. The idea of the 'rapture' and tribulation of the planet is very fatalistic and the bible is the most genocidal book of all time.

 

[MSgt]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

Sure they are. They bomb abortion clinics, bomb federal buildings and cause the murder of innocent children in Waco. I think the US is really fooling itself if it thinks there is a greater threat from Islamic fundies than Christian fundies. Christian fundies kill with deception and lies, and their prey is innocent kids who they seduce with their destructive ideology. The idea of the 'rapture' and tribulation of the planet is very fatalistic and the bible is the most genocidal book of all time.

And what defines Christiainty? The Bible or Jesus Christ?

Most of the Bible was written before Jesus Christ and Christianity never existed before his time.

Where are the organizations of Christian fundamentals that punish the masses through violence in our civilization through government sponsership and travel across borders to punish the cultures of others?

You speak of abortion clinics. How many people have died?- "7." How many incidents? And how many of these incidents were about punishing other civilizations? Let's not mince words and use "deception and lies" as a meaning for "kill." One may as well accuse McDonalds of mass murder for the fat in their burgers.

This only trivializes global events.

 

[QueerNation]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

And what defines Christiainty? The Bible or Jesus Christ?

That would depend on who you asked. Many Christians openly debate that topic. There are many Christians who say that the Bible is the 'word of God' and that they are bound by both the Old and New Testaments. Other Christians say that only the new testament and the teachings of Christ apply. As a non-christian, I really don't have an opinion on either definition.

Most of the Bible was written before Jesus Christ and Christianity never existed before his time.

So says you. Other Christians believe that to not observe the bible in WHOLE, would disqualify them as christians. Yes, most of the Bible was written before Christianity, and most of the writings from the bible grew out of ancient Paganism and Gnosticism.

You speak of abortion clinics. How many people have died? HJow many incidents? And how many of these incidents were about punishing other civilizations? Let's not mince words and use "deception and lies" as a meaning for "kill." One may as well accuse McDonalds of mass murder for the fat in their burgers.

To be honest, I've never added them up, but if you need the numbers, I'm sure you could find them after a few searches in Google. As far as 'punishing other civilizations', what does that have to do with the act of violence? McDonalds serving fat is a little different than bombing a building, you must agree.

 

[MSgt]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

So says you.

Oh, no...no...no. So say's history. Christianity can trace its roots to 2,000 years ago. The life of Jesus Christ. Islam can trace its roots to 14 centuries ago. The life of Muhammed.

The Bible and the Qu'ran are man written tools. It doesn't matter what some Christians believe. History suggests something else. They may believe what they want, but it will not change history.

To be honest, I've never added them up, but if you need the numbers, I'm sure you could find them after a few searches in Google. As far as 'punishing other civilizations', what does that have to do with the act of violence? McDonalds serving fat is a little different than bombing a building, you must agree.

I did look it up and I provided a link. 41 bombings resulting in 7 people dead in the history of the Abortion clinic bombing phenomena in America and Canada. This fact flies in the face of those looking to compare the violence of Radical Islam to the violence of Radical Christianity. One could easily see that with 41 attacks amounting to only seven deaths, the intent is generally not of murder. When all is said and done, more is always said that done (a mirror of a "practical" terrorist as oppossed to an "apocalyptic" terrorist).

And since the topic is, "America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamentals" then it is important to show how different they are.

And the Mcdonalds crack was about how you were implying that Christian morality is "killing" children, which was supposed to be your reaching example on how similar they are to Islamic Radicals.

 

[Kelzie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

And what defines Christiainty? The Bible or Jesus Christ?

Most of the Bible was written before Jesus Christ and Christianity never existed before his time.

Where are the organizations of Christian fundamentals that punish the masses through violence in our civilization through government sponsership and travel across borders to punish the cultures of others?

You speak of abortion clinics. How many people have died?- "7." How many incidents? And how many of these incidents were about punishing other civilizations? Let's not mince words and use "deception and lies" as a meaning for "kill." One may as well accuse McDonalds of mass murder for the fat in their burgers.

This only trivializes global events.

I can handle that. The only way Christians know Jesus' teachings is the New Testament. So I think we can agree that Christianity is defined by the New Testament. But what about the Old? As you and I have already discussed, Christians must follow that too...according to Jesus. Proof:

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

Do Not Ignore Old Testament

So what defines Christianity? According to Jesus, the Bible does. All of it.

 

[nes]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

you are so ignorant.

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

You don't understand that death in the bible means going to hell forever.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

BTW, the "law" that is referred isn't actually the bible itself. Its the "universal law" or whatever u want to name it, the book's laws are simply based off of it! Changing the wording in the bible does not change the law.

If you only looked closer at these so called "contradictions", you would recognize that they usually not contradictions. I've seen websites quoting so called contradictions, some quotes have figurative language that someone would understand 2000 years ago.

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

Matthew is in the new testament.

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)

So he made that statement after the old testament was made, which means it applied only to the present and future when he wrote / heard the statement. Regardless, I still believe not a letter of the law has changed from the old to new testament.

 

[Kelzie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

you are so ignorant.

It would be wise to refrain from personal attacks against a mod. :roll:

You don't understand that death in the bible means going to hell forever.

That's kinda...worse isn't it? Regardless, I don't believe you. "Put to death" isn't subject to many interpretations.

BTW, the "law" that is referred isn't actually the bible itself. Its the "universal law" or whatever u want to name it, the book's laws are simply based off of it! Changing the wording in the bible does not change the law.

Umm...no. Research your religion a little.

Torah (תּוֹרָה) is a Hebrew word meaning "teaching," "instruction," or "law". It is the central and most important document of Judaism revered by Jews through the ages. It is also very important to Christians, as it constitutes part of their bibles. It is written in Hebrew, the oldest Jewish language. It is also called the Law of Moses (Torat Moshe תּוֹרַת־מֹשֶׁה). Torah primarily refers to the first section of the Tanakh–the first five books of the Tanach. The term is sometimes also used in the general sense to also include both Judaism's written law and oral law, encompassing the entire spectrum of authoritative Jewish religious teachings throughout history, including the Mishnah, the Talmud, the Midrash, and more.

Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you only looked closer at these so called "contradictions", you would recognize that they usually not contradictions. I've seen websites quoting so called contradictions, some quotes have figurative language that someone would understand 2000 years ago.

BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

What contradictions are you talking about? I never mentioned any contradictions.

Matthew is in the new testament.

Yeah...that's kinda my point.

So he made that statement after the old testament was made, which means it applied only to the present and future when he wrote / heard the statement. Regardless, I still believe not a letter of the law has changed from the old to new testament.

I see. So you agree that there is nothing wrong with stoning unbelievers or selling your daughters? Charming.

 

[Feela]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

The ideology of the fundies and islamic fundamentalists are very similar, in fact christianty has killed far more over the centuries , but their socio-economic situations are very different which makes alot of difference, but this has little to do with their ideology.

 

[Feela]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I can handle that. The only way Christians know Jesus' teachings is the New Testament. So I think we can agree that Christianity is defined by the New Testament. But what about the Old? As you and I have already discussed, Christians must follow that too...according to Jesus. Proof:


Do Not Ignore Old Testament

So what defines Christianity? According to Jesus, the Bible does. All of it.

I wouldn't go that far, the NT is of very dubious authorship, Jesus the historical character, if he existed was very unlike he christian idea of him.

 

[MSgt]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

The ideology of the fundies and islamic fundamentalists are very similar, in fact christianty has killed far more over the centuries , but their socio-economic situations are very different which makes alot of difference, but this has little to do with their ideology.

This is false. Check your history. Islam exploded from the Arabian desert with such force-born of monotheist conviction-that it terrorized Europe for a thousand years. But Islam today counts only its own losses and not the destruction Muslim swords inflicted upon others.

Arabs make much of the crusades, a two century interlude of European meddling in the Levant, whose brief successes were enabled only by divisions among Muslims. But they fail to acknowledge that the streets ran with Christian blood too. And if Jerusalem was a blood bath then so was Constantinople much later. Europe's first attempt at overseas empire ended in grotesque failure. The Crusades did far more damage to Christiandom than they did to the realms of Islam. But facts count for nothing in Muslim minds desperate to explain their pervasive failure.

Are you aware of those thousand years where Islam pushed into Europe? The countless caliphates over centuries who conquered and demanded human sacrifice as the penalty for not converting? The Ottoman Empire? Even the Arab thrust into France in Islam's first burst of conquest posed far less of a danger to Christiandom than did the Sultans who fought their way from Bursa into the Balkans and, at last, into Hagia Sophia, the symbol of Byzantine and the greatest monument of Christianity's first thousand years (when Muslims rage about repossessing lost domains of their faith, one is tempted to note the Western claims on Constantinople, Antioch, Damnascus, Ephesus, and not least, Alexandria, where Christianity first discrovered how to substitute bureaucracy for Christ). But, of course, the west doesn't make issue of lost "holy" lands as the Mulsims world does and this is why even westerners are quick to offer sympathy to their claims.

The "Grand Turk" was the greatest scourge on Europe since the Black Death. The Balkans were gathered in under the sultan's banner. Constantinople's triple wall defense was breached. From Nicopolis to Mohacs Christian armies were devoured. Turkish fleets controlled the Mediteranean. The empire was spread throughout the Arab world and outposted East Africa. There was a brief encounter as far as India that changed the world. The struggles before the walls of Vienna in 1683 determined the fate of Europe. Crete belonged to the Ottoman's all the way up to 1898 and patches of the Balkans still remained Turkish until the early 20th century. The long conquest and recession of the Ottoman Empire extracted a terrible price in blood from both sides.

But for some very frustrating reason, the west seems to only make themselves aware of the brief crusade period (which Jews, Christians, and Muslims all were claiming the same land) and the 16th century (where Christians slaughtered themselves and "sinners") as they claim that Christiains killed more than Muslims. Maybe it's because the Muslim world places such an emphasis on the Crusades as their justification for revenge and grievance. This is false.

 

[MSgt]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

So what defines Christianity? According to Jesus, the Bible does. All of it.

This is wrong.

"Evil Bible.com?" Shall I show you "proof" of how society is crumbling because of homosexuality by using a site called "Evil Homo.com?" :roll: Great source.

Here's a source (without the bias hatreds and prejudices) that simply explain away your claims by using the scriptures in the Old and New Testament that explain Jesus' purpose on earth.

We've already done this....

In the book of Hebrews we are told that Jesus came to establish a new and better Covenant because he found fault with the Old Covenant (Hebrews 8:7,8). The Old Covenant, the law, was perfect for the purpose for which it was given, but it was only a temporal law and consequently was not adequate for a universal and a spiritual law. Jesus is drawing a contrast between the law of Moses and the law of the kingdom (the New Testament or New Covenant), showing the superiority of the law of the kingdom, the New Covenant, over the law of Moses, the Old Covenant.

You will notice that six times (in Matt. 5) Jesus says "You have heard that it was said," meaning by the old law that certain things were true, "but I say to you." He then contrasts his teachings with the teachings of the Old Covenant. Each time he points out the inadequacy of the law and shows the superiority of the New Covenant.

We are to allow the superiority of the New Covenant (the New Testament) to govern our lives today. The Old Covenant (Old Testament) is not binding on man today.
Q. Please explain Matthew 5:17-18. Are we to obey the all Law to it's ABSOLUTE fullest?

This site has scriptures and explains much more if you are even interested. The "New Coveneant" is Christianity. It is what is taught throughout America in churches in every single state. But given what is here, Jesus obviously never stated that "all of the Bible" defines Christianity. If he did, then he would have sacrificed animals, slaughtered enemies, turned people into salt, and annihilated cities for punishment. Ever read the Sermon on the Mount? It's actually very revolutionary. Few things come close to its rejection of mortal hierachies, its embrace of the marginal, and above all, its generosity of spirit. The sermon itself was treason not just against a Jewish or a Roman state, but against all states. Jesus Christ was so profoundly antiauthoritarian and subversive it's surprising that his picture (in beret) isn't on the wall of every university dorm room. But people have this need to paint Christianity as this "Evil Bible.com" picture and refuses to look at the man that defined the movement.

But none of this garbage matters. What is at the heart of the discussion is what is and is not Christianity and Islam. Christianity is Jesus. Islam is Muhammed. "Man" gave us the books.

It is also of interest to note that the prophesies by Paul, the commissar who culled, codified, and corrupted the message of Christ, down through an apostolic succession of fire with holy zeal didn't help matters. Paul stripped away the most radical aspects of Christ's message. "Paul" is what Christian haters cater to. Not Jesus Christ.

 

[Kelzie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

I wouldn't go that far, the NT is of very dubious authorship, Jesus the historical character, if he existed was very unlike he christian idea of him.

So...what exactly are Christians supposed to be basing their belief off of if the NT doesn't represent Jesus's words?

 

[MSgt]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

So...what exactly are Christians supposed to be basing their belief off of if the NT doesn't represent Jesus's words?

She is mispeaking. The New Testament after the book of John is as suspect as the Old Testament. The Book of Revelation was not of Jesus. It was of Paul (who claimed to speak for Jesus).

History knows all too well what men do when they speak for God. This is why the popular preaching is of Jesus' life...not the book. The book is a tool written by man.

 

[Kelzie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

This is wrong.

No it's not.

"Evil Bible.com?" Shall I show you "proof" of how society is crumbling because of homosexuality by using a site called "Evil Homo.com?" :roll: Great source.

The source was actually the Bible. The website just conveniently put the quotes together. Or do you deny that they are in the Bible?

Here's a source (without the bias hatreds and prejudices) that simply explain away your claims by using the scriptures in the Old and New Testament that explain Jesus' purpose on earth.

We've already done this....

And your source is somehow more valid than mine? Nope. And if you read the scriptures that are provided, it doesn't really do much to back up your point. Not that is, until you read the author's interpretation of those scriptures. My site doesn't need an explanation. My Bible passages are in black and white and do not require justification or some weird twists to make them work. Keep looking.

This site has scriptures and explains much more if you are even interested. The "New Coveneant" is Christianity. It is what is taught throughout America in churches in every single state. But given what is here, Jesus obviously never stated that "all of the Bible" defines Christianity. If he did, then he would have sacrificed animals, slaughtered enemies, turned people into salt, and annihilated cities for punishment. Ever read the Sermon on the Mount? It's actually very revolutionary. Few things come close to its rejection of mortal hierachies, its embrace of the marginal, and above all, its generosity of spirit. The sermon itself was treason not just against a Jewish or a Roman state, but against all states. Jesus Christ was so profoundly antiauthoritarian and subversive it's surprising that his picture (in beret) isn't on the wall of every university dorm room. But people have this need to paint Christianity as this "Evil Bible.com" picture and refuses to look at the man that defined the movement.

This is wrong.

But none of this garbage matters. What is at the heart of the discussion is what is and is not Christianity and Islam. Christianity is Jesus. Islam is Muhammed. "Man" gave us the books.

That is a rather bizzare way of looking at religion. Tell me, how are Christians supposed to know how Jesus wants them to behave? Does he whisper it in their ear? Use some sort of telepathy? No...no...he must have left a book of instructions or something. I know. I shall call it....the Bible.

It is also of interest to note that the prophesies by Paul, the commissar who culled, codified, and corrupted the message of Christ, down through an apostolic succession of fire with holy zeal didn't help matters. Paul stripped away the most radical aspects of Christ's message. "Paul" is what Christian haters cater to. Not Jesus Christ.

I see. So the OT was wrong, even though Jesus said to follow it. Paul was wrong, even though he was a cornerstone of the NT. What exactly do you want to count in your cherry-picked definition of Christianity? Only the stuff that preaches love and kindness? In that case, I only want to believe that stuff in the Koran. The other stuff...doesn't count.

 

[Kelzie]

Re: America's Christian conservatives are not much different than Islamist fundamenta

She is mispeaking. The New Testament after the book of John is as suspect as the Old Testament. The Book of Revelation was not of Jesus. It was of Paul (who claimed to speak for Jesus).

History knows all too well what men do when they speak for God. This is why the popular preaching is of Jesus' life...not the book. The book is a tool written by man.

Thank you for taking it upon yourself to correct others when you think they have mispoken. :lol: