Americans - would you support single-payer?

[Geoist]

Progressives say that about every proposed (new or expanded) government program.

Well, it certainly seems to be the case:

Single-Payer Systems Likely to Save Money in US, Analysis Finds

A single payer healthcare system would save money over time, likely even during the first year of operation, according to nearly two dozen analyses of national and statewide single payer proposals made over the past 30 years.

www.ucsf.edu

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/new-study-says-medicare-for-all-will-save-u-s-money-lower-healthcare-costs

22 studies agree: ‘Medicare for All’ saves money

Whether you call it single-payer or “Medicare for All,” it isn’t some socialist pipe dream. It’s a sensible, efficient and effective way to guarantee excellent health insurance to every…

thehill.com

 

[ttwtt78640]

Well, it certainly seems to be the case:

Single-Payer Systems Likely to Save Money in US, Analysis Finds

A single payer healthcare system would save money over time, likely even during the first year of operation, according to nearly two dozen analyses of national and statewide single payer proposals made over the past 30 years.

www.ucsf.edu

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/new-study-says-medicare-for-all-will-save-u-s-money-lower-healthcare-costs

22 studies agree: ‘Medicare for All’ saves money

Whether you call it single-payer or “Medicare for All,” it isn’t some socialist pipe dream. It’s a sensible, efficient and effective way to guarantee excellent health insurance to every…

thehill.com

See posts #294 and #299.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

I was didapointed that Obama didn't lead with Universal Healthcare & be negotiated down to the vastly inferior ACA. At least give it a shot, so folks could have been more exposed to the concept. Bernie Sanders as the best advocate for it. There are those who feel that the sudden shift of all candidates to backing Joe Biden was basically to block Bernie & Medicare for All.

I think he was just trying to work with what the majority of Americans would accept, rather than waste time with something that seemed extreme to some at the time. I always thought Universal Healthcare would be good for this country.

If Bernie was in the running in '16, he would have had my vote, but it went to Hillary. In '20, I felt that Biden was the best choice to beat trump because he was more moderate.

He did what was needed and he kept the traitor out of the White House for another four years. President Biden will have my vote again if he's in the running at the time of the election, I will vote Democratic regardless....the USA will not survive being run by an ignorant Fascist racist dictator wannabe. The lying scum must not get another chance, he ruined enough lives and hurt our national security in the process. He still puts a smile on his master, Mr. Putin's face as we speak. If Trumpism lives, Democracy dies.

 

[rickc]

We need to raise taxes across almost the whole board and pay for it. I don't give a shit about labels. It's more financially efficient. Complaints about single payer systems are necessarily cherry-picked.

Actually we are already spending the money. 2023 health care cost were 4.5 trillion. A single payer system is even estimated to cut health care cost. We just need to change which pocket it is coming out of.

 

[jpevans]

Progressives say that about every proposed (new or expanded) government program.

As the last holdout 1st world country, we have plenty of examples to look at & judge.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I was didapointed that Obama didn't lead with Universal Healthcare & be negotiated down to the vastly inferior ACA. At least give it a shot, so folks could have been more exposed to the concept. Bernie Sanders as the best advocate for it. There are those who feel that the sudden shift of all candidates to backing Joe Biden was basically to block Bernie & Medicare for All.

What you call “vastly inferior ACA” insurance pays medical care providers more than either Medicare or Medicaid.

 

[rickc]

Grand Mal said:
The USA ranks 59th for life expectancy, between Algeria and Panama.
Is that alright with you?

Are you saying our method of paying for health care is the primary reason for that?

Actually it is.

Many Americans can't afford health care.

Also with a single payer system more Americans would be on a well care system of seeing their doctor regularly and catching health conditions before they become chronic requiring expensive treatment.

 

[washunut]

Grand Mal said:
The USA ranks 59th for life expectancy, between Algeria and Panama.
Is that alright with you?



Actually it is.

Many Americans can't afford health care.

Also with a single payer system more Americans would be on a well care system of seeing their doctor regularly and catching health conditions before they become chronic requiring expensive treatment.

The Share of Americans without Health Insurance in 2022 Matched a Record Low. In 2022, 26 million people — or 7.9 percent of the population – were uninsured, according to a report in September 2023 from the Census Bureau.Nov 9, 2023

 

[Allan]

Hmm… isn’t the federal corporate income tax rate 38% in Canada and 21% in the US? I doubt very much if auto workers’ salaries in Canada are as high as they are in the US.

These companies likely don't pay anywhere near that. Ford Oakville recently got a half billion dollar grant from the Province to fund retooling for electric vehicle production.

 

[Mr Person]

Actually we are already spending the money. 2023 health care cost were 4.5 trillion. A single payer system is even estimated to cut health care cost. We just need to change which pocket it is coming out of.

I know. But don't underestimate Republican malevolence. If we do pass single payer, they'll do their best to administer it as awfully as possible when in power. Whether or not it ultimately saves money will come down to how well it is administered.

At any rate, we've been running trillion+ deficits as it is and have a bunch of things we'll need more funds for: keeping SS solvent, addressing AGW, and tons of infrastructure upgrades/repairs. The repeated GOP tax cuts have left us poorly positioned to address all of that.

 

[Allan]

Also with a single payer system more Americans would be on a well care system of seeing their doctor regularly and catching health conditions before they become chronic requiring expensive treatment.

That's the key to keeping costs down. France has put a lot of resources into preventative care over the last couple of decades. Their goal is to extend healthy lifespan by delaying or preventing expensive conditions such as metabolic syndrome.

 

[jpevans]

What you call “vastly inferior ACA” insurance pays medical care providers more than either Medicare or Medicaid.

Yet millions of Americans are still uninsured.

 

[ttwtt78640]

As the last holdout 1st world country, we have plenty of examples to look at & judge.

Look at the tax rates and defense spending of those other 1st world countries. It’s also worth noting how much medical care providers are paid under those ‘cost saving’ UHC systems.

How Do US Physician Salaries Compare With Those Abroad? - Physician's Weekly

In a recent International Compensation Report, earnings for physicians in the US, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Brazil, Mexico, and Italy were compared. The report focused on salary, job satisfaction, daily work challenges, and the impact of COVID-19 on income. All currencies were standardized on...

www.physiciansweekly.com

Top-Paying Countries for Doctors: Where to Earn the Most?

Discover which countries offer the highest salaries for doctors and what factors contribute to these lucrative paychecks.

futuredoctor.ai

10 highest paying countries for doctors - Medic Footprints

We explore in more depth, the financial remuneration that you can expect to receive in some of the highest paying countries for doctors.

medicfootprints.org

 

[Allan]

Look at the tax rates and defense spending of those other 1st world countries. It’s also worth noting how much medical care providers are paid under those ‘cost saving’ UHC systems.

How Do US Physician Salaries Compare With Those Abroad? - Physician's Weekly

In a recent International Compensation Report, earnings for physicians in the US, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Brazil, Mexico, and Italy were compared. The report focused on salary, job satisfaction, daily work challenges, and the impact of COVID-19 on income. All currencies were standardized on...

www.physiciansweekly.com

Top-Paying Countries for Doctors: Where to Earn the Most?

Discover which countries offer the highest salaries for doctors and what factors contribute to these lucrative paychecks.

futuredoctor.ai

10 highest paying countries for doctors - Medic Footprints

We explore in more depth, the financial remuneration that you can expect to receive in some of the highest paying countries for doctors.

medicfootprints.org

Yeah doctors don't like single payer. When it was introduced in Canada there were lots of docs protesting, threatening to leave the country etc.

 

[aociswundumho]

I was charged $750 for a 6 mile ride to the hospital ER in a fire truck (all their ambulances were tied up on other calls).

Nowadays that's actually not too bad.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nowadays that's actually not too bad.

I never paid them. My point was that public entities also charge ‘user fees’ for their services.

 

[aociswundumho]

It’s also worth noting how much medical care providers are paid under those ‘cost saving’ UHC systems.

This is somewhat ambiguous. Are you implying that doctors in those countries are underpaid, or that doctors in the US are overpaid?

 

[Superfly]

Some of these posts truly reveal the conservative mindset:

1. How does it affect me?
2. Anything bad that happens to OTHERS is the result of poor life choices.

And the hubris that he can sit on his high horse and look down at people for using socialized medicine, when he himself uses socialized medicine.

 

[ttwtt78640]

This is somewhat ambiguous. Are you implying that doctors in those countries are underpaid, or that doctors in the US are overpaid?

Nope, I wasn’t implying anything other than UHC obtains most of its (miraculous?) cost savings by paying medical care providers less.

How physician pay in the US compares to other countries: 11 findings

Physicians in the U.S. on average earn far more than their counterparts in other countries and rank significantly higher in terms of net worth, according to Medscape's

www.beckersasc.com

 

[aociswundumho]

The injection is looking at the future and pointing out that with the implementation of UHC (in it's most common model) means there wouldn't be different retirement health care systems based on employer. UHC by it's very nature means everyone (working, retiree, private sector, government sector, etc.) are all in the same system.

Every country with UHC has a two-tiered system. A private system for wealth politicians and the like, and a public system for everyone else. Just like we have private schools along with shit public schools.

Politicians will not vote for a public system if they will be forced to use it.

 

[aociswundumho]

Nope, I wasn’t implying anything other than UHC obtains most of its (miraculous?) cost savings by paying medical care providers less.

Another way they save money is by putting patients on waiting lists.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Every country with UHC has a two-tiered system. A private system for wealth politicians and the like, and a public system for everyone else. Just like we have private schools along with shit public schools.

Politicians will not vote for a public system if they will be forced to use it.

True, but the wealthy would still have the option to use “free” universal medical care for most of their needs. Of course, they would also likely have to pay more in taxes.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Another way they save money is by putting patients on waiting lists.

That works if you can eliminate the ability to sue them.

 

[Tender Branson]

Here in Austria, we actually have single-payer healthcare (but decentralized), unlike the NHS in Great Britain.

Until a few years ago, every of the 9 states had its own chapter of the ÖGK (Austrian Healthcare System), managing the finances on their own. This was merged into one a few years ago to make bureaucracy more efficient.

Now, the ÖGK has just 4 branches left (based on regularly-employed, self-employed, farmers and state bureaucrats, retirees).

Anyway, some say the merger has cut costs and lowered debts, others say it was useless and didn't lead to any major improvements ...

Austria's healthcare system is generally very solvent and despite single-payer (or slightly decentralized), it has virtually no debts. Only 1 billion € in debt, with more than 9 million people insured. Sometimes, it even runs surpluses.

The ÖGK (the Austrian Universal Healthcare System) is part of the Sozialversicherung (Social Insurance), which is universal and combines Health, Unemployment, Pension and Work Accident Insurance as well as Welfare payments and Asylum Compensation. This means that 99.9% of the Austrian population is insured for health and other insurances. Only a few thousand people are not insured at any time of the year because for example newly arrived asylum seekers who get their asylum applications processed and approved and only then they are fully insured. But even for these few thousand people, doctors will usually treat them and refund the costs later with the ÖGK once they are insured.

On top of that, Austrians who are wealthier, can of course have private insurances too. These will lead to swifter appointments with specialized doctors. But the universal healthcare appointments are also with no long waiting times. The Austrian healthcare system ranks in the top 10 worldwide.

 

[Trippy Trekker]

@Allan -

Glad to see the vast majority of members who participated in your POLL chose to support the concept of a single-payer health system.

In the Big Picture, we either choose to focus on the Common Welfare for the benefit of the most people or we don’t give a rat’s ass about the Common Welfare.

I have come to recognize which of the two camps many of our members belong in,

Re: What is a Liberal?

To help those of you confused over differences between Liberals and Conservatives, I have provided a brief description of both.

Liberals:
-tip generously, wait longer between haircuts and lawn cuts, take life in stride, help strangers, put others ahead of themselves, spew love and peace, smile a lot, have an optimistic and inclusive attitude, make hard work look easy, and focus on the common welfare for the benefit of the most people.

Conservatives, on the other hand:
- have a stingy and judgmental nature, insist on conformity, focus on criticizing other people's values instead of their own, show strangers disdain, glorify themselves, spew hate and discord, frown a lot, have a pessimistic and exclusionary attitude, a sense of entitlement and couldn't give a rat's ass about the common welfare.