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All America can do lately is keep digging a hole

Schweddy

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New Rule: If America can't get its act together, it must lose the bald eagle as our symbol and replace it with the YouTube video of the puppy that can't get up. As long as we're pathetic, we might as well act like it's cute. I don't care about the president's birth certificate, I do want to know what happened to "Yes we can." Can we get out of Iraq? No. Afghanistan? No. Fix health care? No. Close Gitmo? No. Cap-and-trade carbon emissions? No. The Obamas have been in Washington for ten months and it seems like the only thing they've gotten is a dog.

Well, I hate to be a nudge, but why has America become a nation that can't make anything bad end, like wars, farm subsidies, our oil addiction, the drug war, useless weapons programs - oh, and there's still 60,000 troops in Germany - and can't make anything good start, like health care reform, immigration reform, rebuilding infrastructure. Even when we address something, the plan can never start until years down the road. Congress's climate change bill mandates a 17% cut in greenhouse gas emissions... by 2020! Fellas, slow down, where's the fire?

Read more at: Bill Maher: New Rule: If America Can't Get it Together, We Lose the Bald Eagle

Yes, the above was written by extreme liberal Bill Maher. You know, the guy that seemed critical of conservatives values during the Bush years. Only now, I think he is starting to *get it*. I agree with him on what the issues are and how America is truly lazy. It scares the hell out of me what my kids will have to endure.

Another quote from this article that more people need to get:
We might pass new mileage standards, but even if we do, they wouldn't start until 2016. In that year, our cars of the future will glide along at a breathtaking 35 miles-per-gallon. My goodness, is that even humanly possible? Cars that get 35 miles-per-gallon in just six years? Get your head out of the clouds, you socialist dreamer!

LOL - in the early 90's I had a car that got 27 miles to the gallon in the city. Woohoo! Now, almost 15 years and 3 cars later, my car gets 26 miles "in the city". Kinda pathetic...

Why is it that technology makes everything bigger, better, faster, higher, smaller....with the exceptions of fuel consumption on cars and health care? Wonder if it has anything to do with the government being involved?

Anyway, this is an interesting article. I disagree with many of his "solutions" (which aren't mentioned). I also disagree with cap and trade. Other than that, if you listen - there is a revolution coming - from both sides of the isle. Both sides are starting to realize that both the Bush and Obama administrations are the same. Nothing will get done - the only difference is that one can say nuclear.

I wonder if Bill and I could agree that if we take government out of the equation **** would start to get done?

2012 elections will be interesting...
 
Yes, the above was written by extreme liberal Bill Maher. You know, the guy that seemed critical of conservatives values during the Bush years. Only now, I think he is starting to *get it*. I agree with him on what the issues are and how America is truly lazy. It scares the hell out of me what my kids will have to endure.

Another quote from this article that more people need to get:


LOL - in the early 90's I had a car that got 27 miles to the gallon in the city. Woohoo! Now, almost 15 years and 3 cars later, my car gets 26 miles "in the city". Kinda pathetic...

Why is it that technology makes everything bigger, better, faster, higher, smaller....with the exceptions of fuel consumption on cars and health care? Wonder if it has anything to do with the government being involved?

Anyway, this is an interesting article. I disagree with many of his "solutions" (which aren't mentioned). I also disagree with cap and trade. Other than that, if you listen - there is a revolution coming - from both sides of the isle. Both sides are starting to realize that both the Bush and Obama administrations are the same. Nothing will get done - the only difference is that one can say nuclear.

I wonder if Bill and I could agree that if we take government out of the equation **** would start to get done?

2012 elections will be interesting...


The problem is Progressivism, and the ills that brings. I wouldn't worry about cars too awful much though, soon we will be told how bicycling everywhere could help not only in the green agenda, but with health as well...so get that Schwin out of storage.


j-mac
 
Maher is part of the problem. What exactly does he do that's worthwhile?
 
Maher is part of the problem. What exactly does he do that's worthwhile?

I agree. But I think we are all part of the problem. We are all lazy and we expect too much from our Government.
 
I agree. But I think we are all part of the problem. We are all lazy and we expect too much from our Government.



Well, according to the Tides Foundation, and the propaganda they are forcing our children to watch in the schools, The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard they all want complete dependance on Government.


j-mac
 
I agree. But I think we are all part of the problem. We are all lazy and we expect too much from our Government.

I don't. I make stuff. I run a trade surplus, too.
 
I agree. But I think we are all part of the problem. We are all lazy and we expect too much from our Government.

Agree, and disagree.

We have too large a percentage of the electorate that is addicted to the concept "the government should DO something!", rather than the concept of "WE should do something!" (as individuals, communities, society.)

If a majority of consumers clamored for higher fuel efficiency vehicles and alternative fuels, it would be more likely to happen... the market goes where there is a market for things. We are starting to see some of this in recent years, but it is a process and doesn't happen overnight. Also, gas and diesel are still relatively cheap (really, they are) and so most consumers don't feel the need for a Geo or a hybrid. Our "gas crunch" never really even rose to the level of the Carter years, imo, when there were lines miles long at those few stations that even HAD gas. (of course that was an artificial OPEC instigated "crisis" anyway.)

If gasoline and diesel go back up to 4-5 a gallon, that might be the thing to push that option... but let it happen naturally by market forces, not artificially by fiat taxation.

The USA, like DP, is highly polarized. Getting the electorate to agree on much of anything is hard, especially when the price tag becomes visible. As Obama has found, just because people voted for novelty and the promise of change does NOT mean there is a mandate for radical leftist agenda items... and congressmen tend to respond to a certain level of letters and calls from constituents.

Do you know, I actually know (personally, ITRW/FTF) an inventor who is working on an alternative to the traditional internal-combustion engine? He's having a prototype built right now. If it works like he hopes, it may revolutionize the way we generate torque in innumerable applications, probably including vehicles. It's chief premise is a far higher level of mechanical efficiency, which would probably translate to far higher fuel efficiency even for large vehicles with large engines. He's the sort that could actually make this happen...We'll see... my point is that individual ingenuity and initiative is alive an well, it just needs motivation and opportunity.

Gov't isn't the answer to most of our problems.
 
Agree, and disagree.

We have too large a percentage of the electorate that is addicted to the concept "the government should DO something!", rather than the concept of "WE should do something!" (as individuals, communities, society.)

If a majority of consumers clamored for higher fuel efficiency vehicles and alternative fuels, it would be more likely to happen... the market goes where there is a market for things. We are starting to see some of this in recent years, but it is a process and doesn't happen overnight. Also, gas and diesel are still relatively cheap (really, they are) and so most consumers don't feel the need for a Geo or a hybrid. Our "gas crunch" never really even rose to the level of the Carter years, imo, when there were lines miles long at those few stations that even HAD gas. (of course that was an artificial OPEC instigated "crisis" anyway.)

If gasoline and diesel go back up to 4-5 a gallon, that might be the thing to push that option... but let it happen naturally by market forces, not artificially by fiat taxation.

The USA, like DP, is highly polarized. Getting the electorate to agree on much of anything is hard, especially when the price tag becomes visible. As Obama has found, just because people voted for novelty and the promise of change does NOT mean there is a mandate for radical leftist agenda items... and congressmen tend to respond to a certain level of letters and calls from constituents.

Do you know, I actually know (personally, ITRW/FTF) an inventor who is working on an alternative to the traditional internal-combustion engine? He's having a prototype built right now. If it works like he hopes, it may revolutionize the way we generate torque in innumerable applications, probably including vehicles. It's chief premise is a far higher level of mechanical efficiency, which would probably translate to far higher fuel efficiency even for large vehicles with large engines. He's the sort that could actually make this happen...We'll see... my point is that individual ingenuity and initiative is alive an well, it just needs motivation and opportunity.

Gov't isn't the answer to most of our problems.


Do you have a link to this new type of engine? Sounds promising.


j-mac
 
Do you have a link to this new type of engine? Sounds promising.


j-mac


He hasn't gone public yet, and as much as I'd love to share (it is a fascinating concept, beautifully innovative), I've probably said more than he'd like already.
 
He hasn't gone public yet, and as much as I'd love to share (it is a fascinating concept, beautifully innovative), I've probably said more than he'd like already.


That's cool, I hope he is successful.


j-mac
 
I wonder if Bill and I could agree that if we take government out of the equation **** would start to get done?

That's funny, I was under the impression that Bill's argument was that the government isn't doing enough.
 
That's funny, I was under the impression that Bill's argument was that the government isn't doing enough.
You are right. However, his topics I agree with. We need to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan etc...

And to the conservative who say we need to "finish" the job - they have a hole in their common sense and a hole in their pockets.

Agree, and disagree.

We have too large a percentage of the electorate that is addicted to the concept "the government should DO something!", rather than the concept of "WE should do something!" (as individuals, communities, society.)
I agree. That is why I said "We are all lazy and we expect too much from our Government." That is the core of the problem. Mr Maher, expects the gov to do something faster and many of us want the gov to stop. Either way, the core issues remain the same and nothing is changing fast.
 
New Rule: If America can't get its act together, it must lose the bald eagle as our symbol and replace it with the YouTube video of the puppy that can't get up. As long as we're pathetic, we might as well act like it's cute. I don't care about the president's birth certificate, I do want to know what happened to "Yes we can." Can we get out of Iraq? No. Afghanistan? No. Fix health care? No. Close Gitmo? No. Cap-and-trade carbon emissions? No. The Obamas have been in Washington for ten months and it seems like the only thing they've gotten is a dog.

Well, I hate to be a nudge, but why has America become a nation that can't make anything bad end, like wars, farm subsidies, our oil addiction, the drug war, useless weapons programs - oh, and there's still 60,000 troops in Germany - and can't make anything good start, like health care reform, immigration reform, rebuilding infrastructure. Even when we address something, the plan can never start until years down the road. Congress's climate change bill mandates a 17% cut in greenhouse gas emissions... by 2020! Fellas, slow down, where's the fire?
...
We might pass new mileage standards, but even if we do, they wouldn't start until 2016. In that year, our cars of the future will glide along at a breathtaking 35 miles-per-gallon. My goodness, is that even humanly possible? Cars that get 35 miles-per-gallon in just six years? Get your head out of the clouds, you socialist dreamer!

Let's look at some of that. We are getting out of Iraq, but slowly. Just up and leave and a large portion of the country, and a large portion of the world will get pissed, to Obama and the countries detriment. Afghanistan is another, as we already have conservatives here on the board bitching that Obama is not doing enough there. If we get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and there is another terrorist attack here(and there will be sooner or later, it's inevitable no matter who is president), or even a plot stopped, and people will be screaming that it's all Obama's fault for leaving those places and letting the terrorists come here. He is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, so he is going with what he sees as the right course both for us and Afghanistan. Whether he is right or not only time will tell.

Closing Gitmo is happening, it's just a slower process than hoped for. People who did not make the closing Gitmo are a big pat of the problem here, as congress is not exactly being cooperative.

Cap and trade? You of all people support this? With all the misleading statements being made on the subject(see PolitiFact | Alexander claims that cap-and-trade will cost consumer $1,761 a year for one example), it's a hard thing to pass. Basic dishonesty seems to be a basic part of political discourse and this makes things a bit harder to do. However, the bill has not gone away.

In the 8 months(not 10) that Obama has been in office, he has kept 44 campaign promises so far, with 100 others in the works(PolitiFact | The Obameter: Tracking Barack Obama's Campaign Promises. That is slightly more than just getting a dog.

Greenhouse gasses: You do know that it cannot be done overnight, right? We cannot come out and say "you will cut greenhouse emissions by 17 % today". It won't work, and people will throw a legitimate fit. It does take time to get things done.

And onto the car mileage that you talk about vague. First, remember again that the conservatives here threw an absolute fit at the higher mileage requirements(http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...hanks-barack-new-improved-cafe-standards.html start at post 14), and remember that again, it does take time to do anything. This is not as simple as make a more fuel efficient car, it's make the average mileage higher. We can make cars that get decent mileage already: CNN/Money: Best gas mileage cars.

There are things that Obama has not done well on, things he does done piss poor on, but Maher's rant last night managed to pick all the wrong things, and on occasion the entirely wrong target. Obama has been busting his ass to get health care reform done, but when 1/3 of congress has no interest in passing any health care reform and is doing everything possible to sabotage any health care bill, it does make it slow, and it might not happen, since people are being fed lies by everyone involved, and at this point are pissed and tired of the whole thing.
 
The problem is Progressivism, and the ills that brings. I wouldn't worry about cars too awful much though, soon we will be told how bicycling everywhere could help not only in the green agenda, but with health as well...so get that Schwin out of storage.

j-mac

What ills does progressivism bring in your opinion?

We have too large a percentage of the electorate that is addicted to the concept "the government should DO something!", rather than the concept of "WE should do something!" (as individuals, communities, society.)

I disagree, goshin. WE can do something through the government. The government, when you break it down, is a societal grouping, it is one way for us to tackle problems that are too big for us individually.
 
No. 134: Send two additional brigades to Afghanistan

No. 15: Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

No. 125: Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq

No. 241: Require new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.

No. 290: Push for enactment of Matthew Shepard Act, which expands hate crime law to include sexual orientation and other factors

No. 334: Use the private sector to improve spaceflight

No. 427: Ban lobbyist gifts to executive employees

No. 502: Get his daughters a puppy



I think all of these are fairly important.
 
No. 134: Send two additional brigades to Afghanistan

No more than his duty.

No. 15: Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

Demagoguery

No. 125: Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq

This is disingenuous. The man is the CinC, and can order them all home by the end of the week.

No. 241: Require new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.

:roll: Yeah, sure he kept that promise :roll:
The name is on the line, so who cares if the gist of the document makes it a bald faced lie.

No. 290: Push for enactment of Matthew Shepard Act, which expands hate crime law to include sexual orientation and other factors

Hate Crime, not important. Crime is already crime.

No. 334: Use the private sector to improve spaceflight

Puh-Leeze.

No. 427: Ban lobbyist gifts to executive employees

No business involved in this. Restraint of trade.

No. 502: Get his daughters a puppy

Impressive.

I think all of these are fairly important.

I disagree for the reasons noted above.
 
Of course Voidwar has a different opinion on what is important, and apparently expects us to bend to his views on that. For me, it would go like this:

Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

Establish a credit card bill of rights

Expand loan programs for small businesses

Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq(note that just because "he man is the CinC, and can order them all home by the end of the week" does not mean that is a good idea)

Ban lobbyist gifts to executive employees

Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits

Reverse restrictions on stem cell research
 
Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

Why should homeowners be immune to foreclosure ?

Establish a credit card bill of rights

Anyone willing to make the claim that there have been no arbitrary increases in rates or minimum payments since this took effect ?
Or was it an unimportant, empty gesture ?

Expand loan programs for small businesses

In these economic conditions, I might even give you this one, though you would have to show me significant statistic follow up and impact before I would call it important.

does not mean that is a good idea)

Doesn't change the fact that it is a disingenuous "promise".
He can order it, so claiming he will "direct" military leaders, is disingenuous. He has the power to issue direct orders.

Ban lobbyist gifts to executive employees
Restraint of trade as I stated earlier.

Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits

In these economic conditions, I will give you this one as important also.

Reverse restrictions on stem cell research
I am with you on this, however, just because something is good, does not mean it is important.
 
Voidwar, just because you do not like, or think something is important, does not mean that is so. We disagree on what is important in this country, and Obama disagrees with both of us in some ways. Bitching that you personally don't like or find something to be important does not change the fact that Obama has done any number of things that many of us do find important...much more than just getting a dog.
 
Voidwar, just because you do not like, or think something is important, does not mean that is so.

Just because you don't like me, doesn't mean my opinion = bitching.

The list you linked to was used to make the claim that Obama HAS gotten things done in ten months as president.

The big number 44 promises kept and 100 more in the works, was presented as counter to Maher's comments :

The Obamas have been in Washington for ten months and it seems like the only thing they've gotten is a dog.

When you present your big number 44 to say he has gotten things, I think it is perfectly legitimate to look into that list and see if any of them were important things on the level of the comments Maher was making.

Attempts to highlight particular things must be evaluated on a case by case basis. Are small business loans good ? Sure. Is mouthing a statement that says they are good after you are elected, and adding a trickle of funding or a minor adjustment to an already existant program a big accomplishment ? Not so much.

Small business loan program was already existant before Obama campaigned.

Obama has done any number of things that many of us do find important...much more than just getting a dog.

So You mentioned the SBA loans program. Do you really think it was "important" that he moved the percent coverage from 75% or 85% to 90%, for a limited time ?

Perhaps we need to have a discussion on the meaning of the word important.
 
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