Abbas condemns Hamas attack; 4 Israelis shot dead (edited)

Apocalypse · Sep 9, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

alexa said:
Well, I got that information from this forum. I suspect from Apocalypse. Like you say you can apply for a licence for a gun if you want one. Why would it be denied to you? It makes the situation more difficult. A solution would need to be found which it was believed by both sides was a fair one.

Yeah right, besides not recalling ever speaking with you about the gun laws in Israel, I would have never said something as ridiculous as "everyone in Israel has the right to carry arms".
I suspect this opinion of yours has nothing to do with this forum at all.

ido_ · Sep 9, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

alexa said:
I never made any comment on what should happen to them. I simply referred to what happened when Northern Ireland achieved peace.

Ok, so mybe you can tell us what SHOULD happen with them?

Well, I got that information from this forum. I suspect from Apocalypse. Like you say you can apply for a licence for a gun if you want one. Why would it be denied to you? It makes the situation more difficult. A solution would need to be found which it was believed by both sides was a fair one.

Why? mybe because I'm a crazy phycopath? I understand that people don't hold handguns in the UK to protect their households from burglers and such?

Gardener · Sep 9, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Apocalypse said:
I suspect this opinion of yours has nothing to do with this forum at all.

Considering the nature of the sites she references so doggedly, I don't think we need to look very far to find the source of the ideas that have flowed into her head.

CaptainCourtesy · Sep 10, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Degreez said:
You can't speak for Israel, but you can say that the majority of the pro-Palestinians in this forum support setting murderers free.

You are the only who has said anything about how murderers should be in imprisoned for life (something I agree with). Does that mean I get to assume that the majority of pro-Israelis on this forum support setting murderers free? No one else has commented on how Israel granted amnesty to its terrorists. Does that give me the right to post a faulty generalization?

Gardener said:
Considering the nature of the sites she references so doggedly, I don't think we need to look very far to find the source of the ideas that have flowed into her head.

Moderator's Warning:

Tashah issued a warning about staying on topic. These two posts are most certainly NOT on topic. You are both thread banned in accordance with the modified thread ban rules:

SIMPLE SUMMARY OF TEMPORARY RULE CHANGES:

* Thread Bans will be issued with a 0 point “Thread Ban Infraction” warning the poster that they are now thread banned and they should not post any further in the thread.
* Staying banned from a thread is not hard coded
* Any additional posts in a thread after a thread banning will result in a 5 point DBAJ infraction. All subsequent posts after will continue to have a similar infraction levied
* Thread Bans will always be announced in thread to help with enforcement and notification
* All are temporary measures until a hard coded “Thread Ban” system is able to be added to the forum.

Anyone else not discussing the ABBAS CONDEMNATION ISSUE will also get thread banned. That means NO "what about how Israel treats "murderers". I hope this is clear.

ido_ · Sep 11, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Would be nice to get an answear Alexa...

ido_ said:
Ok, so mybe you can tell us what SHOULD happen with them?

alexa · Sep 12, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

ido_ said:
Ok, so mybe you can tell us what SHOULD happen with them?

I believe in the rule of law. What should happen is what is prescribed under the rule of law. I also do not believe in the death penalty under any circumstances so if that is the rule of law it would not have my support. Further on a personal belief, I believe that it is appropriate to keep civilians safe. Hence if people are a danger to society they must be kept under lock and key. In respect to the safety issue, when violence was denounced and peace had been achieved in Northern Ireland, there was no need to keep in jail terrorists who had previous committed terrible crimes because they were no longer a danger to the community. Northern Ireland now works with many people who did terrible things and who needs to come to terms with what they had done and make amends in their own way. These are people who under normal circumstances would never have acted in the way they did.

ido_ said:
Why? mybe because I'm a crazy phycopath? I understand that people don't hold handguns in the UK to protect their households from burglers and such?

and this crazy part, coupled with difficulties on being on line, was what made me think there was no point in further addressing this issue. I have no idea what you are talking about here.

ido_ · Sep 12, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

alexa said:
I believe in the rule of law. What should happen is what is prescribed under the rule of law. I also do not believe in the death penalty under any circumstances so if that is the rule of law it would not have my support. Further on a personal belief, I believe that it is appropriate to keep civilians safe. Hence if people are a danger to society they must be kept under lock and key. In respect to the safety issue, when violence was denounced and peace had been achieved in Northern Ireland, there was no need to keep in jail terrorists who had previous committed terrible crimes because they were no longer a danger to the community. Northern Ireland now works with many people who did terrible things and who needs to come to terms with what they had done and make amends in their own way. These are people who under normal circumstances would never have acted in the way they did.

So a person should be kept in jail only if he\she is a danger to society?
If a husband murders his cheating wife he should be set free because he is not a danger to society as his cheating wife is already dead?
Is there no justice in your world? People who break the law should be punished according to their future criminal potential and not their previous acts?

alexa · Sep 12, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

ido_ said:
So a person should be kept in jail only if he\she is a danger to society?

I never said that.

ido_ said:
If a husband murders his cheating wife he should be set free because he is not a danger to society as his cheating wife is already dead?
Is there no justice in your world? People who break the law should be punished according to their future criminal potential and not their previous acts?

I never said that either.

ido_ · Sep 12, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

alexa said:
I never said that.

I never said that either.

So why not answear the simple question without spins and tweaks. why bring this up:

In respect to the safety issue, when violence was denounced and peace had been achieved in Northern Ireland, there was no need to keep in jail terrorists who had previous committed terrible crimes because they were no longer a danger to the community

I still don't understand what you think should be done with those murderers.

alexa · Sep 12, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

ido_ said:
So why not answear the simple question without spins and tweaks. why bring this up:

I still don't understand what you think should be done with those murderers.

I made it quite clear. They should be dealt with by the law. Personally I don't favour the death penalty so I hope that is not the law, but whatever is due process of the law is how they should be dealt with.

ido_ · Sep 12, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

alexa said:
I made it quite clear. They should be dealt with by the law. Personally I don't favour the death penalty so I hope that is not the law, but whatever is due process of the law is how they should be dealt with.

So if the law states that they should serve community service, you are satisfied?

Vader · Sep 13, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Khayembii Communique said:

SAve your backwards propaganda.

Vader · Sep 13, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Qatzel Ok said:
settler children prepare for a game of cowboys and palestinjuns

Learning about guns is not a bad thing. Your attempt at propaganda has failed.

Vader · Sep 13, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Degreez said:
Yeah, like the Israeli society did so well with its cold blooded murderers... :roll: Yitzhak Shamir, Nathan Yellin-Mor, Yehoshua Cohen, Yehoshua Zeitler, Eliyahu Bet-Zuri and Eliyahu Hakim... Except for the last two (who where killed for their crimes), the rest served a long, long, day in prison before being granted amnesty for killing political figures that were trying to bring about peace in Palestine (ie - Bernadotte, Moyne)... :roll:

Yet more lies.

alexa · Sep 13, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

ido_ said:
So if the law states that they should serve community service, you are satisfied?

How you get from my saying I hope the rule of law is not the death sentence because I never approve of that, to talking about community service is beyond me. I am finished with this silly argumentative, meaningless discussion.

ido_ · Sep 13, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

alexa said:
How you get from my saying I hope the rule of law is not the death sentence because I never approve of that, to talking about community service is beyond me. I am finished with this silly argumentative, meaningless discussion.

No Alexa, you said that they should be dealt by the law, I asked what if this is what the Palestinian law will find community service as a right punishment for their actions? Its fine with you?
You could answear with a simple answer - "I think they should be imprisoned for life as the murderers they are" but keep bringing those vague answers.

justabubba · Sep 13, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Vader said:
Yet more lies.

what about degreez post was nonfactual?

Quote Originally Posted by Degreez
Yeah, like the Israeli society did so well with its cold blooded murderers... Yitzhak Shamir, Nathan Yellin-Mor, Yehoshua Cohen, Yehoshua Zeitler, Eliyahu Bet-Zuri and Eliyahu Hakim... Except for the last two (who where killed for their crimes), the rest served a long, long, day in prison before being granted amnesty for killing political figures that were trying to bring about peace in Palestine (ie - Bernadotte, Moyne)...

Vader · Sep 15, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

justabubba said:
what about degreez post was nonfactual?

Dude ... we should get back on topic here.

expandmymind · Sep 15, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

This title is misleading. Hamas praised the attacks but did not commit them. Al Qassam Brigades, a separate entity from Hamas, carried out the attack.

Apocalypse · Sep 15, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

expandmymind said:
This title is misleading. Hamas praised the attacks but did not commit them. Al Qassam Brigades, a separate entity from Hamas, carried out the attack.

Now that's just ridiculous.

Hamas claims responsibility for Jewish settlers attack - Telegraph

And just for the protocol:

Wikipedia said:
The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades (كتائب الشهيد عز الدين القسام; named after Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, often shortened to Al-Qassam Brigades) is the military wing of Palestinian socio-political organisation Hamas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izz_ad-Din_al-Qassam_Brigades

The article isn't misleading, you are.

expandmymind · Sep 15, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Apocalypse said:
Now that's just ridiculous.

Hamas claims responsibility for Jewish settlers attack - Telegraph

And just for the protocol:

Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The article isn't misleading, you are.

First, your wiki link proves nothing. All that is provided in the references are newspaper articles responsible for perpetuating this lie.

Second, read the Telegraph link as I did weeks ago. It's unsubstantiated crap.

Aug 31 (Reuters) - Hamas Islamists in the Gaza Strip praised a shooting that killed four Israelis in the occupied West Bank on Tuesday but did not claim responsibility for the attack.

Hamas praises West Bank shooting attack | Reuters

The easiest way to realise that Al Qassam Brigades are not Hamas, is by reading about Hamas's battle with Fatah in 2007. Al Qassam Brigades did nothing in the battle, because they are not Hamas. They took a back-seater to the hostilites. A strange way to act considering the are the 'militant wing of Hamas', wouldn't you agree?

They are not Hamas. Read about suicide bombings and you'll quickly realise that Hamas and Al Qassam Brigades' suicide bombs are not classed together, but separately. Because they are not one in the same. Although it must be mentioned that, for the most part, Hamas has been able to control them (most notably they stopped them from carrying out suicide attacks).

Apocalypse · Sep 15, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

expandmymind said:
First, your wiki link proves nothing. All that is provided in the references are newspaper articles responsible for perpetuating this lie.

Second, read the Telegraph link as I did weeks ago. It's unsubstantiated crap.

Aug 31 (Reuters) - Hamas Islamists in the Gaza Strip praised a shooting that killed four Israelis in the occupied West Bank on Tuesday but did not claim responsibility for the attack.

Hamas praises West Bank shooting attack | Reuters

The easiest way to realise that Al Qassam Brigades are not Hamas, is by reading about Hamas's battle with Fatah in 2007. Al Qassam Brigades did nothing in the battle, because they are not Hamas. They took a back-seater to the hostilites. A strange way to act considering the are the 'militant wing of Hamas', wouldn't you agree?

They are not Hamas. Read about suicide bombings and you'll quickly realise that Hamas and Al Qassam Brigades' suicide bombs are not classed together, but separately. Because they are not one in the same. Although it must be mentioned that, for the most part, Hamas has been able to control them (most notably they stopped them from carrying out suicide attacks).

"My wiki link" doesn't need to prove anything as it speaks on the known and obvious truth.
That you deny that the al-Qassam brigades are the military wing of Hamas, in a complete contradiction to reality, history and mankind's common sense itself is bizarre on its own, but that you claim the Wiki link is the one that is lying and not the entire world that is opposing your crude expressions of ignorance is ridiculously absurd.

It is supposed to be a common knowledge, it is supposed to be something that anyone who even takes the smallest of interests in the conflict can tell immediately, to claim that it is a lie is to simply engage in the contradiction of a known and established fact.

Here, even a source which I assume is one of your favorites speaks against your opposition to reality:

Nahru Massoud, a senior figure in the Izzedine al-Qassam brigades, the military wing of Hamas, has denied he was being investigated for involvement.

Killed Hamas official Mahmoud al-Mabhouh betrayed by associate, says Dubai police chief | World news | guardian.co.uk

Now as to the second claim that Hamas has never taken responsibility over the attack, this is yet another deliberate attempt to mislead.

You are referring to Hamas initial praising of the attack.
Sure, when it has praised the attack minutes after it has made it to the world headlines it has indeed not taken responsibility, but as the link states, a few hours later, it has taken responsibility and its spokesman has pretty much came up and said "We take responsibility for this attack", so once more you're opposing clear and established facts, something that could be said on every single one of your posts.

Here, yet another one of the thousands of legit and based sources that say the same thing, this time the leftist Ha'aretz:

The attack, for which Hamas has claimed responsibility, shattered years of relative calm in the West Bank.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...ing-years-of-relative-west-bank-calm-1.311351

justabubba · Sep 17, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

Apocalypse said:
"My wiki link" doesn't need to prove anything as it speaks on the known and obvious truth.
That you deny that the al-Qassam brigades are the military wing of Hamas, in a complete contradiction to reality, history and mankind's common sense itself is bizarre on its own, but that you claim the Wiki link is the one that is lying and not the entire world that is opposing your crude expressions of ignorance is ridiculously absurd.

It is supposed to be a common knowledge, it is supposed to be something that anyone who even takes the smallest of interests in the conflict can tell immediately, to claim that it is a lie is to simply engage in the contradiction of a known and established fact.

Here, even a source which I assume is one of your favorites speaks against your opposition to reality:

Killed Hamas official Mahmoud al-Mabhouh betrayed by associate, says Dubai police chief | World news | guardian.co.uk

Now as to the second claim that Hamas has never taken responsibility over the attack, this is yet another deliberate attempt to mislead.

You are referring to Hamas initial praising of the attack.
Sure, when it has praised the attack minutes after it has made it to the world headlines it has indeed not taken responsibility, but as the link states, a few hours later, it has taken responsibility and its spokesman has pretty much came up and said "We take responsibility for this attack", so once more you're opposing clear and established facts, something that could be said on every single one of your posts.

Here, yet another one of the thousands of legit and based sources that say the same thing, this time the leftist Ha'aretz:

4 Israelis killed in shooting attack shattering years of relative West Bank calm - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

you post as if only the Palestinian anti-peace opposition would benefit from such an attack immediately before the peace talks began. look again at your likud leadership:

... The attack prompted sharp reactions from West Bank settler leaders, who were quick to draw a link between the killings and the peace talks that are set to get underway. "It's about time that the leaders of Israel wake up from their delusions of an imaginary peace," said Zvi Bar Hai, the head of the South Hebron Hills regional council.

Lawmakers from right-wing parties called on Netanyahu to announce an immediate suspension of talks with the PA.

"Netanyahu must at once freeze the talks and concentrate on securing the peace for the citizens of Israel," said MK Uri Ariel (National Union ). "Now it is clear that the most violent period is when a diplomatic process is underway."

"Anyone who in recent months was complicit in building the myth of Abu Mazen [Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas] as the one who is in control on the ground must sober up and immediately cease and desist from continued actions aimed at strengthening the Palestinian army, which is being gradually established under American sponsorship," said MK Aryeh Eldad (National Union ).

MK Tzipi Hotovely, a hawkish member of Netanyahu's ruling Likud faction, said: "The terrorist organizations are sending a clear message by resuming their attacks on innocent Israelis. This is a warning sign to anyone who believes that concessions over the Land of Israel will lead to a solution to the conflict. There needs to be a firm response to terrorism, not concessions."

Fellow Likud MK Ofir Akunis added: "Every time Israel extends its hand for peace, the Palestinians make every effort to cruelly cut it off. The entire world can see this evening that Israel seeks peace while the Palestinians seek terror and violence."

According to Science and Technology Minister Daniel Hershkowitz, "Unfortunately, this horrific attack once again proves that there is no partner on the Palestinian side and that we must now consider if there is any point in holding these discussions."

appears we have agreement between the Palestinian terrorists and those of israel's right wing: peace talks should not go forward - there is no basis to achieve peace

why do you only focus on one of the two sides which takes this extreme position

b.larset · Sep 17, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

I am following the thread ; but I cant seem to time it right and get in . It's Like getting in on A game of jump rope that uses Barbed Wire.

Vader · Sep 18, 2010

Re: 4 Israelis shot dead by Hamas terrorists in West Bank(edited)

justabubba said:
you post as if only the Palestinian anti-peace opposition would benefit from such an attack immediately before the peace talks began. look again at your likud leadership:

appears we have agreement between the Palestinian terrorists and those of israel's right wing: peace talks should not go forward - there is no basis to achieve peace

why do you only focus on one of the two sides which takes this extreme position

Agreed. Once Hamas is exterminated ... useful peace talks can commence.

Abbas condemns Hamas attack; 4 Israelis shot dead (edited)

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

ido_

Gardener

free market communist

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

ido_

alexa

ido_

alexa

ido_

alexa

ido_

Vader

Vader

Vader

alexa

ido_

justabubba

long standing member

Vader

expandmymind

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

expandmymind

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

justabubba

long standing member

b.larset

Vader

Abbas condemns Hamas attack; 4 Israelis shot dead (edited)

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

free market communist

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

long standing member

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

long standing member

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