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A good border wall would devastate --------------

Tigerace117 said:
It's a rather large coast and the coast guard is physically incapable of being everywhere at once.......and it is very much within the realm of possibility for groups to use decoys to draw attention away from the actual area where they are supposed to land.
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Look around, there still may a few more straws you can grasp at.
 
lwf said:
How so? This is why asylum seekers leave their home countries. It is the height of arrogance when conservatives assume that asylum seekers are just here to commit crimes and make a few dollars. What makes you think they did nothing to fix their home country? What makes you think families of laborers even have the power to fix a country run by criminal gangs or a dictator? What makes you think that they wouldn't rather be able to stay in their homeland and make it a better place?

And I never said the US is legally obligated to grant asylum to all asylum seekers. I would posit that the U.S. is morally obligated to consider all requests of asylum. I also would posit that I am running on intellect and common human decency, and you are running on misinformation and apathy.
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What makes you think a bunch of farmers have the ability to fight back against an entire nation and achieve independence? Oh wait...
 
Cephus said:
What makes you think a bunch of farmers have the ability to fight back against an entire nation and achieve independence? Oh wait...
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A bunch? Maybe. If it's just you and your family, are you going to take up your hoe and march against the state army?
 
Cephus said:
And request it. Request. That doesn't mean they can cross the border and drop kids and pretend they own the place.
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Yeah sure. That's why Obama was the "deporter in chief".
 
ataraxia said:
Yeah sure. That's why Obama was the "deporter in chief".
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He was deporting people who were in the country illegally. Not sitting at the border waiting to be admitted. If Obama wasn't seen as some kind of absurd liberal savior, he'd be catching crap for daring to deport anyone.
 
Cephus said:
What makes you think a bunch of farmers have the ability to fight back against an entire nation and achieve independence? Oh wait...
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Which group of immigrants to this country ever stayed back in their own country to fight back against an entire nation and achieve independence?
 
ataraxia said:
Which group of immigrants to this country ever stayed back in their own country to fight back against an entire nation and achieve independence?
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Um... look around you. About 250 years ago.
 
Cephus said:
He was deporting people who were in the country illegally. Not sitting at the border waiting to be admitted. If Obama wasn't seen as some kind of absurd liberal savior, he'd be catching crap for daring to deport anyone.
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Sure. What the law says should be done with people at the border seeking asylum is give them a hearing in court.

If you are really interested in using resources wisely to protect the border, building a giant China Wall across the border is not the way to do it in the 21st century. The purpose of the wall is not really to secure the border. It's just a giant middle finger to the whole world. Not the best use of resources. But I think Trump and his supporters are more interested in cussing and insulting people all over the world. They like the drama and shock value of such a symbol of separation. They know this border problem is not that big a deal. But that's not what's really behind all this.
 
Cephus said:
Um... look around you. About 250 years ago.
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It was much easier to do it when they were not in the country itself, but an ocean away. The French did it 250 years ago too, in the country itself. But it was much more of a mess and a blood bath, wasn't it?

But I have found the "I got mine, so F you" attitude to be the dominant theme in conservative thought these days.
 
Logical1 said:
A good border wall would devastate drug and the sex trafficking business. Makes you wonder why democrats are so against it. Do they have a vested interest in these crimes?
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It would hinder the very dangerous and ruthless drug and sex traffickers for sure as well as at least slow down the entry of others intent on committing illegal activities here. According to NPR in 2017, illegals in the USA are sending up to $70 billion or more in U.S. dollars back to Mexico. Mexico gets all that lovely money for their government to tax and benefit from and they can send a lot of their crooks and criminals here.

No wonder the Mexican government has made so little effort to help with our immigration problem.
 
Lursa said:
Agreed. And Americans are thus very gunshy when it comes to just handing over our tax dollars. So many people just jump on this simplistic solution...little more than a slogan...for a wall. But just how effective would it be? Worth $5 billion? Or would that $$$ be better spent on other methods, like focusing REAL $$ and enforcement on the employers? (for example)
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IMO it would be better spent on hiring many more border agents AND enforcement on employers. But since the cry to get rid of ICE came out, I'm doubtful that would be acceptable. Back to the wall then.
 
ataraxia said:
Sure. What the law says should be done with people at the border seeking asylum is give them a hearing in court.

If you are really interested in using resources wisely to protect the border, building a giant China Wall across the border is not the way to do it in the 21st century. The purpose of the wall is not really to secure the border. It's just a giant middle finger to the whole world. Not the best use of resources. But I think Trump and his supporters are more interested in cussing and insulting people all over the world. They like the drama and shock value of such a symbol of separation. They know this border problem is not that big a deal. But that's not what's really behind all this.
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And we do. It's being done for the people sitting at the border right now. And look at how many are being turned down? Do we think they are going to turn around and go back home? Or are they going to try to sneak in anyhow? I personally think that we ought to mine the border and put in automated machine gun nests. That would be effective. It would also be very politically incorrect and wouldn't play to the left. Because nothing really plays to the left, mostly because they WANT the illegals so they get the votes and support.
 
ataraxia said:
It was much easier to do it when they were not in the country itself, but an ocean away. The French did it 250 years ago too, in the country itself. But it was much more of a mess and a blood bath, wasn't it?

But I have found the "I got mine, so F you" attitude to be the dominant theme in conservative thought these days.
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We got ours BECAUSE we actually went out and did it. What's their excuse?
 
Cephus said:
We got ours BECAUSE we actually went out and did it. What's their excuse?
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YOU did nothing, except be born in a free country. Not a single person living in the United States has ever risen up and overthrown their own government, so spare us the vainglory.
 
lwf said:
YOU did nothing, except be born in a free country. Not a single person living in the United States has ever risen up and overthrown their own government, so spare us the vainglory.
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I did nothing, no. But if given the same situation today, I'd have been one of the people picking up a gun and fighting against the aggressors. I have a feeling the liberals would be running away to Canada.
 
Cephus said:
I did nothing, no. But if given the same situation today, I'd have been one of the people picking up a gun and fighting against the aggressors. I have a feeling the liberals would be running away to Canada.
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I seriously doubt you are that stupid. For one thing, you wouldn't have a gun, you'd have a farming implement if you were lucky. You would be doing it on an empty stomach and you'd be lucky if the other people doing it numbered more than a dozen. Your family would likely be raped and murdered while you were away in retaliation for your sedition, and if you weren't killed in the initial attack, you would be publicly executed.

If you were the sole provider for a family, your decision to fight rather than flee would be both stupid and immoral.
 
lwf said:
I seriously doubt you are that stupid. For one thing, you wouldn't have a gun, you'd have a farming implement if you were lucky. You would be doing it on an empty stomach and you'd be lucky if the other people doing it numbered more than a dozen. Your family would likely be raped and murdered while you were away in retaliation for your sedition, and if you weren't killed in the initial attack, you would be publicly executed.

If you were the sole provider for a family, your decision to fight rather than flee would be both stupid and immoral.
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So wait, nobody in Revolutionary War times had guns? Um... sure, whatever you say. :roll:
 
Cephus said:
So wait, nobody in Revolutionary War times had guns? Um... sure, whatever you say. :roll:
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None of the refugees seeking asylum have guns. It's easy to be patriotic when everyone else is doing it. It is an entirely different story when your family is starving, the government controls all the weapons, and the 'rebellion' can't even feed itself.
 
lwf said:
None of the refugees seeking asylum have guns. It's easy to be patriotic when everyone else is doing it. It is an entirely different story when your family is starving, the government controls all the weapons, and the 'rebellion' can't even feed itself.
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Guns, farm implements, whatever you have. Appeal for help. Do something other than run away. It can't be that hard, at least if you care more about justice and your family than you do about your own skin.
 
Logical1 said:
A good border wall would devastate drug and the sex trafficking business. Makes you wonder why democrats are so against it. Do they have a vested interest in these crimes?
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Drug cartels own politicians in Mexico. What makes you think it doesn't happen here?
 
JustHanging said:
They've made it past grade 6, and thus understand what a ladder is, and how it can be used. (Please see post #10)
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Explain to me how a ladder helps you once you've made it to the top of a 25 foot tall wall with no footing. Are you just supposed to jump down?
 
Lursa said:
Really? How much reduction? Worth $5 billion?

How about applying $1 billion to finding and punishing employers that hire the illegal laborers?

I've seen nothing that justifies spending that $ in terms of effectiveness.
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How about both?
 
lwf said:
Walls only keep out children and adults who weren't seriously planning on coming in anyway. They function primarily as a visual barrier, not a physical one. I would be willing to bet that you personally could defeat any wall in the United States with less than 10 minutes of planning.
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Like prison walls, or the wall around the White House. They're both easy to penetrate, right?
 
Cephus said:
Guns, farm implements, whatever you have. Appeal for help. Do something other than run away. It can't be that hard, at least if you care more about justice and your family than you do about your own skin.
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It is not just hard, for most people it is impossible, otherwise the dictators and criminal gangs wouldn't be in power. If all you know is a life in a country where food is available upon demand, firearms are legal and affordable for laborers, people are free to assemble and speak their minds, primary and secondary education is free, tertiary education is affordable, and justice is entrenched in the laws of the land, it can be difficult to put yourself into the shoes of a father who must protect his family in a place where food is scarce, firearms are unavailable, education is non-existent, and laws exist only to enrich the already wealthy.

These refugees are not different from you. They are who you would have been had you not been lucky enough to be born into the U.S.A. And they are absolutely doing what you would have done, assuming you are an honorable person, even if you're too sheltered by western privilege to see it.
 
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