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A good border wall would devastate --------------

Lursa said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/...erican-workers-in-place-of-migrant-labor.html

https://reason.com/blog/2011/10/05/colorado-farmers-hire-locals-f

https://slate.com/business/2017/03/...ous-explanation-for-their-labor-shortage.html

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/02/colorado-massive-shortage-construction-workers/
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The first thing that needs to happen is we need to stop paying people to not work. The next problem is to pay people a decent wage that they can support a family. Sorry but between the welfare programs and these illegals driving wages down we are in this situation.
 
If Trump turned on a dime and said that on further study and reflection he had concluded a wall is unnecessary, the weather would change from wind generated by the millions turning in his immediate wake.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
I don't think so I know so. The first house I rented in Houston was broken into 5 times in 1 month. The police told me to move into a gated community or more expensive neighborhood away from the area I was in. I did not have a car at the time and could not afford to move out of the poor area of Houston which was close to where I worked. I was able to rent an efficiency apartment in a gated community for the same as I could rent a 3 bedroom house. However I was not robbed for the 1 year I lived in the gated community in the same neighborhood until I could afford a car and to move away from the crime ridden area.
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You're talking about opportunistic crimes. I concede: Walls can deter opportunistic crimes. If I am walking down the street looking for a random house to break into as quickly as possible, I might pick the one without the perimeter wall simply so I don't have to go through the trouble of climbing over the wall. This isn't because I am unable to do so, it is because I would rather break into an easier target. If my specific intent is to break into YOUR home, then locked doors, walls, and a gated community would be of no help to you.

Illegal immigration is not an opportunistic crime; it is planned and executed ahead of time with the specific intent of crossing the border. This isn't a situation where if we make it marginally more difficult, they'll just go to the next country over and seek asylum there. That is why I compared it to me intending to break into YOUR house, not random vandals looking for an easy target. What would stop me from breaking into your house, even without gates, walls, and locks? One nearby police officer.
 
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Moderate Right said:
And if we didn't have states like California, with it's open door policy, many illegals would never get here in the first place to migrate to other states. Let's face it, we have but a handful of states on the Southern border. Illegals aren't crossing the border directly into Iowa.
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Have you ever been to Tajuana? Last time I was there I drove down from San Diego, the boarder was anything but "open". We have three (3) states on our southern boarder with Mexico. Illegals may not cross directly into Iowa, but since MOST fly in they aren't crossing at our Mexican boarder either.
 
Irwin Corey said:
Have you ever been to Tajuana? Last time I was there I drove down from San Diego, the boarder was anything but "open". We have three (3) states on our southern boarder with Mexico. Illegals may not cross directly into Iowa, but since MOST fly in they aren't crossing at our Mexican boarder either.
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Most don't fly in. Most cross the southern border illegally, tens and hundreds of thousands.
 
Logical1 said:
A good border wall would devastate drug and the sex trafficking business. Makes you wonder why democrats are so against it. Do they have a vested interest in these crimes?
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It would hurt it yes, but our northern border allows more Muslims in then the south does.
 
Irwin Corey said:
Hundreds of thousands is bull****!
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There are over 10 million illegals living in the US at the moment costing us billions of dollars per year in several different ways and we apprehended over 300,000 trying to illegally cross the border in 2017. 300,000 is 300,000 too many and that's just one year and that is just the number actually apprehended. If we had a wall we wouldn't have to apprehend 300,000 per year, which would allow us to actually decrease the number of border agents, paying for the wall many times over. I'm not against increasing legal immigration numbers if we need the workers. People should come here legally, not illegally.
 
Moderate Right said:
There are over 10 million illegals living in the US at the moment costing us billions of dollars per year in several different ways and we apprehended over 300,000 trying to illegally cross the border in 2017. 300,000 is 300,000 too many and that's just one year and that is just the number actually apprehended. If we had a wall we wouldn't have to apprehend 300,000 per year, which would allow us to actually decrease the number of border agents, paying for the wall many times over. I'm not against increasing legal immigration numbers if we need the workers. People should come here legally, not illegally.
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Key word: apprehended.

Less than 20K get in and, BTW, about the same number leave. This is a zero sum game. Security measures we have are working. What we need is effective legislation to manage the problem.
 
Irwin Corey said:
Key word: apprehended.

Less than 20K get in and, BTW, about the same number leave. This is a zero sum game. Security measures we have are working. What we need is effective legislation to manage the problem.
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But you said there was no problem! We shouldn't be apprehending 300,000. It costs money to do so and once they are apprehended, they are here and cost us money. We need to stop them from being here. 300,000 apprehended are 300,000 people who are here who shouldn't be. And, you're 20% figure is on the low end of the estimate. Estimates range from 20% to 50% and you just naturally picked the lower number as fact. My point still stands, 300,000 people apprehended are 300,000 who are here. They are not thrown back across the border, as they should be. You are dishonest in your posting, nothing unusual for a liberal.
 
Tom Horn said:
It would hurt it yes, but our northern border allows more Muslims in then the south does.
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Exactly. Build the Northern wall. That's a wall I could support.
 
JustHanging said:
Exactly. Build the Northern wall. That's a wall I could support.
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According to Arnold the Barbarian, we should have two, because we thought of it first.
 
Moderate Right said:
If we had a wall we wouldn't have to apprehend 300,000 per year, which would allow us to actually decrease the number of border agents, paying for the wall many times over.
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This is not accurate. The most generous number I've ever seen for the estimated efficacy of a border wall is 25%, and that is for urban areas and relies on keeping border protection where it is. Reduce the number of border agents, and the efficacy of a wall approaches 0.

The one place where a wall (fence) is useful is in urban centers, and that assumes that border agents are less than a 5 minute drive away. Virtually every study I've ever read agrees that a border wall (fence) out in the uninhabited desert is useless, and it's useless precisely because there are no border agents out there to patrol it.
 
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Moderate Right said:
LOL. That's exactly what YOU have been doing!
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Well … there you go again; I haven't personally attacked you. You really don't have a valid argument … do you?
 
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