8-year-old boy dies in US custody on Christmas

[Josie]

Leave it to Calamity to find some way to crap on the Christmas spirit by using a dead kid as a political pawn.

That about wraps up the thread.

 

[Mr Person]

Leave it to Calamity to find some way to crap on the Christmas spirit by using a dead kid as a political pawn.

Plenty of your fellow conservatives are crapping on the Christmas spirit in their own way all about DP. Are you calling them out too?




Besides, pfffft, we're all online now aren't we? We're not exactly celebrating Christmas with people while posting on DP....

 

[SheWolf]

So he got sick on Monday, was obviously brought to a hospital,which most would see as a rational course of action, but Trump.....omg, but Trump.

If he is separated from his parent's, it's very reasonable to ask if he is getting proper care, comfort, emotional support, and supervision. Is he getting enough food and water while sick?

A very very sick child in detainment, treated like a criminal should be cause for concern. They have medical staff in prisons, beds, and basic food. No American should be comfortable with treating a sick child like an adult in federal prison, and I am not saying anything with certainty, but we should all want answers and an investigation into the treatment of such people.

Also, don't forget, this is Christmas. We should stop yo think how fortunate we are and our children, to feel free and safe in America, opening presents together. This kid was a refugee. He died in our care and in our custody. He probably did not get a Christmas or a gift. We should think about helping the less fortunate, and what we can personally do.

I am not satisfied with letting these detainment centers being run with no transparency. The public should know what it's like inside, and we should care.

 

[chuckiechan]

Well, this is one of those situations where there isn't really enough information available to draw reasonble inferences. But yeah, it's a safe bet that the "Trumpian scrooges" you refer to wouldn't give a **** even if it was tied directly to some policy change Trump imposed. Each such policy change with regard to immigration has involved deliberately cruelty.

We already saw them in action when the seven year old girl died of dehydration and shock 8 hours after being taken into custody: some were content to savage her death for purposes of attacking the asylum seekers while ignoring the fact that we take responsibility for someone when we take custody of them, and yet others decided to found a lower road (using the death to attack liberals for having cared).




I have to wonder:

1. Was/is there any pressure on medical staff treating any of these asylum-seekers to hurry it up and save on costs;

2. What happened in the interim. I have little faith that people who would let a girl die of dehydration and shock many hours after being taken into custody bother to check up on any sick ones to make sure they're not getting worse.

I suppose his is a more meaningful death than the nameless one's in the desert, particularly on tribal land. No one knows a damn thing except somehow it has to be Trumps fault or it just isn't worth talking about.

 

[ecofarm]

No stipend. Maybe retroactive stipend to reimburse Mexico for those actually granted asylum. For those not granted asylum, too bad.

The stipend can be 10% of what we currently spend and they live decent in Mexico while awaiting processing. Wanna save money or be vindictive?

 

[ecofarm]

Uh, no, not exactly. There's no silver bullet from being apprehended by Border Patrol. The do the best they can but the responsibility for a child's welfare and health reposes with the parent. It's no secret the journey is arduous - thousands die each year. Why, should we assume that suddenly being in the custody of the BP is going to miraculously cure the person of every health issue he has.

I'm talking about asylum seekers that approach a port of entry. Illegal crossing is another issue. Once in custody, same as any asylum seeker. Give them 10% of current cost and best of luck, processing notice will be available.

 

[JustHanging]

What was your choice? What should have been done?

From the article:

"The child was held for an additional 90 minutes for observation and then released from the hospital mid-afternoon on December 24 with prescriptions for amoxicillin and Ibuprofen," CBP said in a news release."

I'm not sure how things work in the States, but why wouldn't the hospital have just ordered the drugs from the dispensary, and given them to the child then and there instead of writing a prescription? It makes no sense giving a prescription to a child, or to a child with a destitute father.

Your TDS is in full swing.

I understand this was written to calamity and not me. But I'm pretty sure calamity doesn't have Trump Defense Syndrome, where Trump's actions are defended, no matter how disgusting or immoral. That's a Trump base kind of thing. Like the base you're part of. Like a lot of the posts you write. So aren't you maybe just projecting here? Something to think about anyways.

 

[JustHanging]

The stipend can be 10% of what we currently spend and they live decent in Mexico while awaiting processing. Wanna save money or be vindictive?

Are we talking brown skinned people here, because sadly I think that would make a big difference to a lot of the Trump base.

 

[Mr Person]

I suppose his is a more meaningful death than the nameless one's in the desert, particularly on tribal land. No one knows a damn thing except somehow it has to be Trumps fault or it just isn't worth talking about.

We'll find out whether it's Trump's policies fault. As you can see, I said I don't think there's enough information to even draw an inference.

But unlike most of the right wing crap threads around here, there actually are quite a few things related to Trump's immigration policy changes to talk about despite the OP's overreach. Also, note this:

And the worst bit is.... none of this is even necessary. Not the custody, not the death, not the thread. Obama's much-maligned "catch and release" was not some open borders plot. He was ordered to release those people because he had also been violating the 1997 Flores agreement.

And it worked. They set up the families with electronic monitoring, legal help, and other resources. The families showed up in court at something like a 96% or 97% rate because they really did legitimately want/need asylum.

But hey, this is modern politics, so we need to have stupid preventable tragedies and ****-ups happening over an invented problem about which the people who scream don't really care anyway, since they'd be focusing on policy changes regarding employers of illegals, not wall & deport.

Now, when I checked his article I don't recall seeing anything about how long the child was actually held in custody. If he was just caught, this probably would have happened anyway. But if they were in the system for a while, Trump's policy changes would still be a proximate cause, since he switched from Obama's policy to reinstating family detention and, for quite a while, deliberately separating children from parents in order to traumatize them.

Remember, the much-maligned Obama held families too long, also. He was ordered to release them. Hence the much-maligned but actually successful catch, release, monitor, and guide program.




And again, we don't know enough to know whether there was medical negligence, or whether our border people are pressuring docs to not do things properly, or whether the kid wasn't checked up on.

There's no reason to say he's not to blame either. There is definitely reason to be suspicious.

 

[SheWolf]

What, specifically, do you think Trump and his "scrooges" did to this little boy?

His supporters always blame everything squarely on the parents, and a Fox News pundit said these detainment centers are essentially summer camps.... sooooo it's not really like we expect the majority of Trump supports to stop and carr about any of these criminal Soros funded invaders

 

[JustHanging]

If he is separated from his parent's, it's very reasonable to ask if he is getting proper care, comfort, emotional support, and supervision. Is he getting enough food and water while sick?

A very very sick child in detainment, treated like a criminal should be cause for concern. They have medical staff in prisons, beds, and basic food. No American should be comfortable with treating a sick child like an adult in federal prison, and I am not saying anything with certainty, but we should all want answers and an investigation into the treatment of such people.

Also, don't forget, this is Christmas. We should stop yo think how fortunate we are and our children, to feel free and safe in America, opening presents together. This kid was a refugee. He died in our care and in our custody. He probably did not get a Christmas or a gift. We should think about helping the less fortunate, and what we can personally do.

I am not satisfied with letting these detainment centers being run with no transparency. The public should know what it's like inside, and we should care.

I would like to see this turned into an opportunity to improve the system. Why was an eight year old given a prescription (if he was alone)? Or why was a child with a destitute father given a prescription?

In such a situation, shouldn't a hospital just order the drugs from the dispensary and give them to the child then and there, regardless of other circumstances, regardless of country of origin? If I heard about this happening in a Canadian hospital I would be pissed, anybody who needs medicine and can't afford it should be given it.

We're the richest people in mankind's history and we can't spare what amounts to less than a pack of smokes to ensure a child in our care receives their medicine? That is seriously messed up.

 

[SheWolf]

The diagnosis at the hospital was a common cold and the boy was released. The boy was given prescriptions for amoxicillin (an antibiotic) and the painkiller ibuprofen, but it is unknown if these prescriptions were filled and administered. After experiencing nausea and vomiting that night, the boy was taken back to the hospital where he died an hour later. The cause of death remains unknown.

Guatemalan boy, 8, dies in immigration custody after being diagnosed with a cold

I was on Amoxicillin for pneumonia. Prescribing an antibiotic like that for a common cold seems over prescribing antibiotics, but it doesn't sound like he has a common cold either

 

[dobieg]

So, it looks like the nation has reached a cross-roads. Will we be Trumpian scrooges or humanitarians who actually give a rat's ass about what happens to tiny Tim? It's time to decide between the two on this holiday which is supposed to remind us all that people like Trump are not who we are.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/25/us/guatemalan-boy-dies-in-us-custody/index.html



The choice is yours. Choose wisely.

If Obama or Clinton were President, how would the outcome be different?

Please be specific.

 

[mike2810]

So, it looks like the nation has reached a cross-roads. Will we be Trumpian scrooges or humanitarians who actually give a rat's ass about what happens to tiny Tim? It's time to decide between the two on this holiday which is supposed to remind us all that people like Trump are not who we are.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/25/us/guatemalan-boy-dies-in-us-custody/index.html



The choice is yours. Choose wisely.

Got a question for you. If a person is taken to a hospital and is under the hospital doctors care and dies, is it the hospital doctors fault? The person is under the custody of the hospital. What did the child die of?, Did they have the medical issue prior to entering the US illegally?

Unless someone can show neglect by DHS it is pure hype the media is doing in how they are reporting the story.

 

[SheWolf]

I join other members and guests in expressing my deepest condolences to the parents of that boy.


Of course, no rational person would blame anyone in particular for the boy's death, unless it were proved that an incompetent doctor did not follow the correct protocol.


In other words, this death of a little boy had nothing to do directly with the immigration policies of the United States of America.

Given the lack of transparency, we can't say with any certainty the detainment centers are failing these people and children. But what we do know is that separating a small child from their parents in trauma inducing. We also know that sick and neglected children are less likely to recover from a health crisis and more likely to die from an illness, and combine that with a frightened child facing a basic loss of daily freedom and family seperation, and the child depressed and traumatized. All of those factors is a drain on a person's immune system and ability to fight an infection.

There have been numerous studies on this. Holding and comforting a scared and sick child makes a huge difference in their development and ability to fight infections.

Separating children from their parents and leaving them alone while sick and suffering, has irrefutable consequences.

It's simply a fact that can't separation policies are hurting the children, and again, we should all want transparency in this process and an investigation

 

[justabubba]

The stipend can be 10% of what we currently spend and they live decent in Mexico while awaiting processing. Wanna save money or be vindictive?

by such stipend you will have incentivized mass migration to the southern side of the mexican-American border

much as a refusal to enforce current immigration laws has made our nation a jobs magnet for undocumented aliens

 

[ecofarm]

by such stipend you will have incentivized mass migration to the southern side of the mexican-American border

much as a refusal to enforce current immigration laws has made our nation a jobs magnet for undocumented aliens

I don't think people are walking hundreds of miles for a few weeks, or days, of minimum developing world welfare.

It's less of an incentive than the three hots and a cot we currently provide. Perhaps we run the funds through, and services via, the Mexican government. They supply three hots and a cot, at their cost. Compared to the same in America, we have disincentivized.

 

[ecofarm]

How about this.

The Mexican government supplies a safe place to sleep. They get paid. The family gets daily money for food, toiletries, etc. The local Mexican economy gets paid. All for a tiny fraction of current costs, and parents take care of their kids.

 

[Mr Person]

What, specifically, do you think Trump and his "scrooges" did to this little boy?

His supporters always blame everything squarely on the parents, and a Fox News pundit said these detainment centers are essentially summer camps.... sooooo it's not really like we expect the majority of Trump supports to stop and carr about any of these criminal Soros funded invaders

For example, when the other very little kid died of shock and dehydration 8 hours (or 7?) after being taken into custody, they said it's the parents' fault for taking them on the trip. We make it very hard and unlikely to actually get asylum here, so I guess anyone who tries to save their kids' lives from death by drug gangs or evil government is to blame if we don't give them adequate care after taking them custody.

We've gone from pretending to be "The City on The Hill" to being proud of not acting like other humans are quite entirely human.

What, specifically, do you think Trump and his "scrooges" did to this little boy?

We'll find out, well maybe. I would hope that people who spent the last two years claiming the FBI and other law enforcement was corrupt just to defend Trump would also be suspicious of government investigating itself.

But Trump's track record is quite bad and his supporters' worse. If a child can die of dehydration 8 hours after being taken into custody, there's a reason to look into this.

 

[justabubba]

How about this.

The Mexican government supplies a safe place to sleep. They get paid. The family gets daily money for food, toiletries, etc. The local Mexican economy gets paid. All for a tiny fraction of current costs, and parents take care of their kids.

for anyone who has spent much time in mexico/lower tejas the problem with your proposed solution is immediately obvious

 

[ecofarm]

for anyone who has spent much time in mexico/lower tejas the problem with your proposed solution is immediately obvious

Fine, if we can't rely on the authorities to provide a safe place to sleep, we give those in processing a housing allowance. Still costs nothing compared to our current bureaucratic nightmare.

 

[Idiometer]

Do you know more than the article reveals? Based on the info available, is jumping to conclusion?

No one needs to jump to anything. This is the Trump administration's policy, to separate even babies from their parents. If this boy had been allowed to stay with his father, or the little girl who died previously had been kept with hers, a different outcome is likely, since a parent would know immediately that their child was unwell, instead of the child being ignored until it was too late.

What is it about empathy being so lacking among today's conservatives? Is this who we've become as a nation? It makes me sick.

 

[Idiometer]

So they notice he is sick but do not understand that he has some undetectable Guatamalen disease... they rush him to hospital, treat him with anti-biotics and then he suddenly starts vomitting and dies IN ONE HOUR and you think that this is somehow Trumps fault? How about we look at this impartially and understand that this is the very reason that we do not want these people in the country in the first place... imagine this ****head parent enrolling his little kid into 3rd Grade and infecting dozens of innocent children... killing them.

I'm assuming you opened the link, but you must have missed this part:

"The official cause of death is unknown."

You're assuming his fever was related to something infectious. Fevers can have many causes:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/fever/symptoms-causes/syc-20352759

A fever can be caused by severe hydration, as was the case with the little girl who died:

https://www.csu.org/Pages/default.aspx

It took me about five minutes to find, skim through, and post those links. Perhaps you could make an attempt at self-education before posting vitriol that makes you sound like the world's only living heart donor.

 

[Idiometer]

What, specifically, do you think Trump and his "scrooges" did to this little boy?

Separated him from the only person who loves him enough to be on the alert for signs of illness.

How can anyone consider themself to be a good person and yet support the Trump administration's inhumane treatment of these people? Sick, the lot of you.

 

[justabubba]

No one needs to jump to anything. This is the Trump administration's policy, to separate even babies from their parents. If this boy had been allowed to stay with his father, or the little girl who died previously had been kept with hers, a different outcome is likely, since a parent would know immediately that their child was unwell, instead of the child being ignored until it was too late.

What is it about empathy being so lacking among today's conservatives? Is this who we've become as a nation? It makes me sick.

i believe the guatemalan girl was with her father. the unaccompanied children took the first bus out. she and her father took the next one. he is said to have advised the authorities that his daughter was in good health