51% Favor Government Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Funding

[Kobie]

Of all the criticisms of Obamacare, the one that carries zero water is how many words it contains. That's like claiming Lake Ontario is better than the Atlantic Ocean because it contains fewer water molecules. It's nothing but a horse-apple talking point.

 

[P. Kersey]

In post #61 you stated this” That's speculation and hasn't been proven “in response to my post which this stated we spend 17.6 percent (2010 numbers) of our GDP on healthcare.

In post #90 I respectfully ask if you “perhaps have something besides your opinion that you can cite for me? “

All I got was some paranoid bull**** about a “health care scam “ inspite of the fact that it was/is a a repub idea. Followed by a lameass screed about high unemployment and stagnant wages. Hey- if you don’t have anything besides your opinion just state it. Don’t throw bunch of off topic bull**** out and hope for the best.:lamo

All you have is opinion that it is good and will fix everything and it will save money...etc...
I don't give a flip if it was republican, democrat or martian...it's a scam the govt is running and all that can be guaranteed is that it will give them more control over people...under penalty of law.
You statists and hyperpartisans think the gov't should do everything. I disagree. I'll just add this again;


I want somebody to suggest to me a single, government run program that isn't a bloated, mismanaged, intransient, rapacious abuser of tax dollars...but you want the govt to run "healthcare"..LMAO...seriously?

 

[P. Kersey]

Of all the criticisms of Obamacare, the one that carries zero water is how many words it contains. That's like claiming Lake Ontario is better than the Atlantic Ocean because it contains fewer water molecules. It's nothing but a horse-apple talking point.

Right. Deflection and evasion.

I'm sure you understand every word of it., right? If you think ANY law that takes 2 million words to enact and regulate is good.....Not to mention all the bureaucracy nad unionized government "employees" it will take to maintain the stupid law...LMAO ..wait never mind.I just remembered....you CLAIM to be neutral but you ONLY criticize and vilify the right...Another statist and follower of dear leader.

I'll say this; You don't have a clue how this healthcare bill will be good for the country...No one does...it's ALL speculation and a political power grab to further grow an intrusive government.

I notice how that over 1200 businesses and most of the major labor unions have received exemptions..I notice many govt. agencies have exemptions...including the IRS who will be enforcing this law/ Care to address those points? I didn't think so.

Just do as you're told, berate the other party and march in lockstep...the government knows what's best for you. Keep believing.



Just how long is 2,163,744 words?

The epic novel War and Peace is only 560,000 words long.

Atlas Shrugged weighs in at 645,000 words.

The Obamacare regulations appear to have even eclipsed what Wikipedia considers the longest published novel in either the Latin or Cyrillic alphabets. Artamène, or Cyrus the Great (in French: Artamène ou le Grand Cyrus) is a ten-volume, 13,095 page novel containing 2,100,000+ words.

By our count the King James Version of the Bible contains 830,314 words.4 That makes Obamacare regulations two and a half times as long as the Bible! If you add the text of the Obamacare statutes to its regulations, they are together three times as long as the Bible!

The average reader reads at a rate of 250 to 300 words per minute, but when reading detailed documents such as regulations the rate drops to 200 words per minute.5

At 200 words per minute, the Obamacare Regulations would take 180 hours to read. That’s seven and a half days of non-stop reading; it’s four and a half 40-hour business weeks.

The length of these regulations exemplifies not only the complexities that Obamacare has placed on the medical and insurance communities, but also the need to vigilantly monitor these regulations as they are published.
How long are the Obamacare regulations?: 5x the length of the Obamacare statutes | Obamacare Watcher



Same thing I said above;

Show me a single, government run program that isn't a bloated, mismanaged, intransient, rapacious abuser of tax dollars...but you want the govt to run "healthcare"..LMAO...seriously?

 

[P. Kersey]

Doing nothing would cost a lot more. Health care costs and insurance rates were skyrocketing long before Obamacare.



It's been awhile since I glanced through the ACA, but if recall it was double spaced which did make it easier to read. I saw some good stuff in it...such as low interest loans for medical students and loan forgiveness if they work two years at a major hospital. This is meant to help the doctor shortage. Also, insurance reimburcements if insurance company's over charge and going after medical fraud more aggressively, and negotiating for lower drug prices. Having the choice to pick which private insurance plan to buy is good and you can keep it if you move or lose your job.


I'm not convinced that the private sector left to it's own devices is much better. Companies that only care about share holder value and profit tend to cut corners, gouge consumers and produce less value.



Either the taxpayers and those with health insurance continue to pay for others to have free healthcare at emergency rooms... or every individual pays for their own insurance. I think I prefer the latter.



If you can choose from several private insurance companys and plans on the Insurance Exchange...then isn't that giving people a choice? Utah already had their insurance exchange set up in 2009. On the home page it says...."The average monthly individual health insurance premium paid for single-person coverage in UT is $131."

Here's what Utah's insurance exchange looks like....

Health Insurance Online - Free Quotes and Information | HealthCare.com



I like the idea of having a standard level of quality in health care.



I'm pretty sure that the private insurance companies had a hand in creating Obamacare. It's because of them that there isn't 'single payer' or universal healthcare.


Right arm.

Thanks for the polite reply. Appreciate it.

You make some good points and I agree with some in theory, but in the end I don't trust or believe that any law this big and convoluted is good for anyone and I don't want the government to be any bigger or have any more power over people.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me a single, government run program that isn't a bloated, mismanaged, intransient, rapacious abuser of tax dollars...

How can a reasonable person think that somehow everything will just magically work out all of a sudden and the govt will become efficient and honest?

 

[Visbek]

It's quite clear that the problem is not the provisions. Most people want the good stuff, they just don't know it's in the bill, and/or don't want to pay for it.

This split has been going on for a few years, e.g. Newsweek Poll: Public opposes Obama health care reform plan... until they find out what's in it, then they like it - AMERICAblog News

In fact, many of the Obamacare provisions are popular with Republicans. This should not be too surprising, since it was actually a Republican/conservative idea in the first place. Poll: Republicans hate ‘Obamacare,’ but like most of what it does

 

[humbolt]

In post #61 you stated this” That's speculation and hasn't been proven “in response to my post which this stated we spend 17.6 percent (2010 numbers) of our GDP on healthcare.

In post #90 I respectfully ask if you “perhaps have something besides your opinion that you can cite for me? “

All I got was some paranoid bull**** about a “health care scam “ inspite of the fact that it was/is a a repub idea. Followed by a lameass screed about high unemployment and stagnant wages. Hey- if you don’t have anything besides your opinion just state it. Don’t throw bunch of off topic bull**** out and hope for the best.:lamo

You know, all these claims here that the ACA was a republican idea are complete BS. Not one single republican in Congress voted for it. Not one. The program in Massachusetts is a program developed because the people of Massachusetts wanted that program, and a republican governor signed it after the democrat legislators passed it. The will of the people of Massachusetts was a primary consideration. The ACA can't make that claim at all. Find something new to carp about, because the claim that the ACA was a republican idea is absolute BS.

 

[P. Kersey]

You know, all these claims here that the ACA was a republican idea are complete BS. Not one single republican in Congress voted for it. Not one. The program in Massachusetts is a program developed because the people of Massachusetts wanted that program, and a republican governor signed it after the democrat legislators passed it. The will of the people of Massachusetts was a primary consideration. The ACA can't make that claim at all. Find something new to carp about, because the claim that the ACA was a republican idea is absolute BS.

Good point. I overlooked that in the hailstorm of "nuh uh, you're wrong" that was getting thrown at me..

 

[humbolt]

Good point. I overlooked that in the hailstorm of "nuh uh, you're wrong" that was getting thrown at me..

I know what you mean. When faced with a wall of opposition, some of which is complete BS, it's hard to know where to start. The claim at the outset that somehow we're going to insure 30 or 40 million people in addition to those already insured at a net savings is suspicious from the start. Now we know it was a lie.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

51% Favor Government Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Funding - Rasmussen Reports™

majority of America has the Republicans back .
this is why Harry Reid is scared ****less and will pull every trick in the book to keep the house debt ceiling bill to ever reach the senate floor because he might not have enough opposing votes for it not to pass. remember there is an election coming in 2014 there is a lot of democrat seats in red and purple states that will be challenged and they will go on record for the 2nd time in support of Obama care if they oppose the house bill and will lose their seat for supporting such an unpopular law

Again...these fear and scare tactic ...is something that only exists in the Fox news bubble.
Let me say this again....you people out there ...with your deranged Obama syndrome ....ARE MINORITIES.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

51% Favor Government Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Funding - Rasmussen Reports™

majority of America has the Republicans back .
this is why Harry Reid is scared ****less and will pull every trick in the book to keep the house debt ceiling bill to ever reach the senate floor because he might not have enough opposing votes for it not to pass. remember there is an election coming in 2014 there is a lot of democrat seats in red and purple states that will be challenged and they will go on record for the 2nd time in support of Obama care if they oppose the house bill and will lose their seat for supporting such an unpopular law

Again...these fear and scare tactic ...is something that only exists in the Fox news bubble.
Remember when SS and medicare was introduced ...it was the same dam thing! Your .."GOD"..Ronald Reagan then proclaimed the end of the world.

Today ...you people cling to these programs ..like a child cling to candy!!
How long before we hear republicans say to the government ..."take your hands off my 'OBAMACARE'?

Let me say this again....you people out there ...with your deranged Obama syndrome ....ARE MINORITIES.

The American people ....went to poles ...and voted for Obama ....TWICE......suck it up!!

We've seen this too many times from the right wing...you freak out because blacks get to ride in the front of the bus...or women get to work for a living...or Gays get to marry!! You do that ...and we seen these ..HOLOCAST you conjure up come to pass and ....and in the end ....we find ...it never was a problem!!

 

[notquiteright]

Thanks a lot! :lamo That's not exactly what I had in mind! I was thinking more along the lines of hiding here somewhere! No good huh?

Greetings, notquiteright. :2wave:

I dunno, millions of deadbeat dads and illegal immigrants are trying that route... not sure I see a lot to recommend it...

 

[notquiteright]

Wow, a liberal complaining when a GOPer can avoid a war, end the Cold War, and all the priceless lives saved on both sides and yet we WIN...that is what is known as very cost effective, darlin...besides which the economy grew, we were put on a path first of recovery and then of long term continuing growth of the economy, the rising tide lifting most all boats, large and tiny, and we regained pride in our great country, a pride that had been stomped on by Carter, who had not the first clue as to how to restart an economy...and I would include Nixon as well, who by his misguided efforts embarrassed us all... Reagan took on the aftermath of all that turmoil with a big comforting smile...and with a comparatively minimal increase in the debt he made us economically, militarily, and politically strong as well as respected again. With all the $$$Trillions$$$ the boob has overspent, what has all that gotten us again?:

CONvoluted history I see. Reagan started down a road the BushII took to the pinnacle of folly with needless spending while dumping mental healthcare down the drain. It is foolishness to claim he somehow created the economic upturn after the period of stagnation. The economy had it's restart BEFORE Reagan took office, but as with this MUCH greater collapse we just had , it took a few years for the effect to move so massive an economy. No one was more stunned and was as clueless as our Dear Leader Reagan when the Berlin Wall fell.

Our needless military spending didn't beat the Russians, the Soviet inability to provide basic needs much less state of the art consumer goods broke the USSR as millions of 'communists' got tired of seeing the difference between consumer driven economies and tyrant managed ones. The USSR military didn't collapse, civilian support for the dictators did.

It wasn't a rising tide as Reagan made a big issue of constantly wanting to curtail the social safety net and 'trickle down' didn't float any boats- but made the gap between haves and have nots greater.

Reagan 'restored' our sense of pride militarily by stomping on a few TEENY TINY nations like Grenada, and somehow we miss the part where a barrack full of Marines gets blown up or crushed in that misguided incursion that was Lebanon.

You fail to note his administration had covertly dealt with Iran at the same time Reagan was castigating Carter for being 'soft' on Iran.

THEN went on to illegally trade weapons with IRAN to gin up illegal cash to support the Contras against Congress's expressed prohibition.

Reagan is like the fellow who did a rain dance and two years later when it rains, he takes credit.

 

[Donc]

All you have is opinion that it is good and will fix everything and it will save money...etc...
I don't give a flip if it was republican, democrat or martian...it's a scam the govt is running and all that can be guaranteed is that it will give them more control over people...under penalty of law.
You statists and hyperpartisans think the gov't should do everything. I disagree. I'll just add this again;


I want somebody to suggest to me a single, government run program that isn't a bloated, mismanaged, intransient, rapacious abuser of tax dollars...but you want the govt to run "healthcare"..LMAO...seriously?

I stated that

"health care rose a 3.9 percent in 2011 and consumed about 17.9 percent of GDP in 2011."

You stated

“That's speculation and hasn't been proven “

I stated,as well a provided a link to Medicare back up my post/opinion.

" do you, perhaps have something besides your opinion that you can cite for me?"

Did you bring anything besides dodgin and weavin to the DEBATE?:2wave:

 

[Donc]

You know, all these claims here that the ACA was a republican idea are complete BS. Not one single republican in Congress voted for it. Not one. The program in Massachusetts is a program developed because the people of Massachusetts wanted that program, and a republican governor signed it after the democrat legislators passed it. The will of the people of Massachusetts was a primary consideration. The ACA can't make that claim at all. Find something new to carp about, because the claim that the ACA was a republican idea is absolute BS.

Well the germ of BOcare IS the individual health insurance mandate,which originated in 1989 at the heritage foundation, which was founded in 1973, to promote conservative policies limited government.
Here’s some good reading on the history of the health insurance mandate.:2wave:

Nov. 20, 1993= Consumer Choice Health Security Act (SB 1743). Sponsored by Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) & 20 cosponsors (2-D, 18-R)

Jan. 18, 2007= Healthy Americans Act (SB 334). Sponsored by Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) & 17 cosponsors (7-D, 1-I, 9-R)

Don’t get the idea that I am a proponent of BOcare.I fought against it from the getgo.my personal preference was/is a national plan that would cover everyone from birth to grave with good quality healthcare that the majority of civilized nations have. Our country could do better than let 45,000 of our citizens die each year due lack of healthcare. Sad.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Libs own the media and if the gov is shut down they will make sure most of America blames reps, just the way it is.

 

[Donc]

Libs own the media and if the gov is shut down they will make sure most of America blames reps, just the way it is.

Hmm...you mean libs like David D. Smith,CEO of Sinclair Broadcasting, the broadcaster that owns more TV stations than anyone else?The same David Smith that aired the anti-Kerry documentary Stolen Honor to its 62 TV stations during Kerry s campaign for prez?

 

[polgara]

I know what you mean. When faced with a wall of opposition, some of which is complete BS, it's hard to know where to start. The claim at the outset that somehow we're going to insure 30 or 40 million people in addition to those already insured at a net savings is suspicious from the start. Now we know it was a lie.

And we're going to accomplish this miracle with fewer doctors, since many are leaving the medical field in frustration! Such a deal!

Greetings, humbolt. :2wave:

 

[Visbek]

You know, all these claims here that the ACA was a republican idea are complete BS.

Uh, no, it isn't.

Exchanges, coverage mandates, expansion of Medicare were all part of Romney's MA health care reform.

The Massachusetts Health Plan: Lessons for the States
PolitiFact | Obama says Heritage Foundation is source of health exchange idea

I really have no idea why the Republicans turned so virulently on their own ideas.... Other than rampant partisanship. Romney's reforms seem to be working fairly in Massachusetts.

The program in Massachusetts is a program developed because the people of Massachusetts wanted that program, and a republican governor signed it after the democrat legislators passed it.

1) Romney pushed very hard for it, and deserves credit for it.
2) Obamacare passed the exact same process on the federal level, as Romneycare on the state level.
3) Obama was re-elected, fair and square. There should be no question that a big part of that was an awareness that voting for Obama meant that Obamacare would go into effect.

 

[P. Kersey]

I stated that

You stated



I stated,as well a provided a link to Medicare back up my post/opinion.

Did you bring anything besides dodgin and weavin to the DEBATE?:2wave:

My point is that there is no way to prove that ACA will save any money or lower healthcare costs. Get over yourself.

 

[Kobie]

Libs own the media

Repeating it ad nauseam doesn't make it true.

 

[obvious Child]

you might have a point but if you couple this polls results to the Obama care disapproval polls this poll doesn't seam to far off the mark

This is grasping for straws. You just got owned by HoJ.

Poll does not support the headline.

 

[humbolt]

And we're going to accomplish this miracle with fewer doctors, since many are leaving the medical field in frustration! Such a deal!

Greetings, humbolt. :2wave:

Yeah. I keep hearing that this is still wonderful - we just don't know it yet. From what I've seen, it looks as if PPACA takes the worst aspects of many proposals, and rolls them into one big nightmare with increasing costs and declining care. What's not to like? And naturally, because we don't like the new law, the only way out of it now is to let the government run every aspect of health care entirely for everyone. It's the government telling us that because the government system isn't working, we need more of it. Just because the results suck doesn't mean that the people who design this crap aren't right - we just need a whole lot more of it. I love it.

 

[humbolt]

Uh, no, it isn't.

Exchanges, coverage mandates, expansion of Medicare were all part of Romney's MA health care reform.

Yes, they did something similar in Massachusetts, that bastion of republicanism. Give it a break. Just because Romney signed the thing doesn't make it his, or even a republican idea. That such a program can work in a very small state does not translate into a national program. There are some remarkable differences in scale and cost, among a rather long list of other reasons why what's good for Massachusetts may not necessarily be good for an entire nation. There are reasons why I don't live in Massachusetts.

The Massachusetts Health Plan: Lessons for the States
PolitiFact | Obama says Heritage Foundation is source of health exchange idea

I really have no idea why the Republicans turned so virulently on their own ideas.... Other than rampant partisanship. Romney's reforms seem to be working fairly in Massachusetts.

See above.

1) Romney pushed very hard for it, and deserves credit for it.
2) Obamacare passed the exact same process on the federal level, as Romneycare on the state level.

See above, again.

3) Obama was re-elected, fair and square. There should be no question that a big part of that was an awareness that voting for Obama meant that Obamacare would go into effect.

Obama did win, and there could be a case for the second part of that statement if the general public was aware of the actual effects of the PPACA. As these effects are becoming more apparent, public support for the program erodes.

 

[bubbabgone]

Yeah. I keep hearing that this is still wonderful - we just don't know it yet. From what I've seen, it looks as if PPACA takes the worst aspects of many proposals, and rolls them into one big nightmare with increasing costs and declining care. What's not to like? And naturally, because we don't like the new law, the only way out of it now is to let the government run every aspect of health care entirely for everyone. It's the government telling us that because the government system isn't working, we need more of it. Just because the results suck doesn't mean that the people who design this crap aren't right - we just need a whole lot more of it. I love it.

And imagine the size of the Federal Government workforce when they fully control healthcare?
Oh baby.
It'll be in inverse proportion to the number of medical personnel but in direct proportion to Democrat voters.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Repeating it ad nauseam doesn't make it true.

Right, facts make it true and denying those facts ad nauseam doesn't make them un true.