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2/3rd of Americans want health care reform

Groucho

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Just thought I'd point this out, because I keep reading and hearing GOP members say that a majority of Americans don't want reform and are happy as can be with the current system. A recent poll show that this is not true:

Poll: Bipartisanship popular, compromise tricky - Behind the Numbers

Further, "nearly six in 10 in the new poll say the Republicans aren't doing enough to forge compromise with President Obama on important issues; more than four in 10 see Obama as doing too little to get GOP support. Among independents, 56 percent see the Republicans in Congress as too unbending and 50 percent say so of the president; 28 percent of independents say both sides are doing too little to find agreement."

Seriously, while this obstructionism is doing great with the rank-and-file GOP members, it's not attracting the moderates the GOP needs if they want to win.



 
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American

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We all want reform, just not Obama's reform. Where were you last year?
 

Groucho

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We all want reform, just not Obama's reform. Where were you last year?
Not on this board.

I agree as well, I don't want Obama's reform, I want a single payer system.

The point of the thread, however, as I stated above, was that there are those who are claiming that the US doesn't want any reform. That is blatantly not true.

Glad to see you're not one of them.
 

Boo Radley

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Not on this board.

I agree as well, I don't want Obama's reform, I want a single payer system.

The point of the thread, however, as I stated above, was that there are those who are claiming that the US doesn't want any reform. That is blatantly not true.

Glad to see you're not one of them.
It's a mistake many make. They think people want less, or no reform instead of more reform than is being offered.
 

Zinc Route

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Not on this board.

I agree as well, I don't want Obama's reform, I want a single payer system.

The point of the thread, however, as I stated above, was that there are those who are claiming that the US doesn't want any reform. That is blatantly not true.

Glad to see you're not one of them.

***** You claim you don't want Obama's full plan - but IF they had overidden any GOP Senate filibuster and forged the rudiments of what both Houses initially passed WOULD you be Happy then even if it wasn't exactly what you'd like ????

***** Also can you at present admit that regarding this televised Meeting of the Minds with the GOP that such a suggestion is almost a year too late AND that Obama just wants a big photo op to label Republicans as onstructionist ???
 

Groucho

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***** You claim you don't want Obama's full plan - but IF they had overidden any GOP Senate filibuster and forged the rudiments of what both Houses initially passed WOULD you be Happy then even if it wasn't exactly what you'd like ????
Sure, 50% of what I want is better than 0%.

***** Also can you at present admit that regarding this televised Meeting of the Minds with the GOP that such a suggestion is almost a year too late AND that Obama just wants a big photo op to label Republicans as onstructionist ???
But the republican plan IS obstructionist. I mean, anyone looking at this objectively knows it. They even vote against bills they cosponsored. Their goal is to keep Obama from passing anything so they can then label him as a "do nothing" President. I mean, come on, how can you deny that this is their strategy?
 

j-mac

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Just thought I'd point this out, because I keep reading and hearing GOP members say that a majority of Americans don't want reform and are happy as can be with the current system. A recent poll show that this is not true:

Poll: Bipartisanship popular, compromise tricky - Behind the Numbers

Further, "nearly six in 10 in the new poll say the Republicans aren't doing enough to forge compromise with President Obama on important issues; more than four in 10 see Obama as doing too little to get GOP support. Among independents, 56 percent see the Republicans in Congress as too unbending and 50 percent say so of the president; 28 percent of independents say both sides are doing too little to find agreement."

Seriously, while this obstructionism is doing great with the rank-and-file GOP members, it's not attracting the moderates the GOP needs if they want to win.

So in Progressive minds 'compromise' now means agree with us or we will label you obstructionist.....Nice.


j-mac
 

lizzie

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Just thought I'd point this out, because I keep reading and hearing GOP members say that a majority of Americans don't want reform and are happy as can be with the current system. A recent poll show that this is not true:
Most of us do want reform. What we don't want is government takeover and control.
 

Glinda

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So in Progressive minds 'compromise' now means agree with us or we will label you obstructionist.....Nice.
I'm interested in your statistical analysis of this "Progressive" poll. Care to share?
 

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Sure, 50% of what I want is better than 0%.
Their goal is to keep Obama from passing anything so they can then label him as a "do nothing" President. I mean, come on, how can you deny that this is their strategy?
Up to this point, Republicans were not able to stop anything. Members of his own party carried that banner.:roll:
 

Boo Radley

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Up to this point, Republicans were not able to stop anything. Members of his own party carried that banner.:roll:
They share the blame, true.
 

cpwill

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But the republican plan IS obstructionist.
:lamo man, until Scott Brown won a couple of weeks ago they couldn't have obstructed this bill if they wanted to (and they did, which is fine). As I pointed out ad nauseum at the time; the problem wasn't with Republicans, it was with Democrats. You didn't have to bribe republican senators to get them on board, you were having to bribe democrats.

:lol: but hey, if it makes you feel better, go ahead and blame Republicans. the people aren't going to buy it and you're going to get stomped in November.


even the voters in MASSACHUSSETTS wanted Republicans to get this bill killed.
 

cpwill

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I'm interested in your statistical analysis of this "Progressive" poll. Care to share?
voters in Conneticut (oh the deep red state of conneticut) seem to be pretty much on the same page as the people of Massachusetts, the people of Nebraska, and the rest of the country in general.

... * Connecticut residents oppose the current bills in Congress by a margin of 51-34 percent
* By a margin of 62-29 percent, Connecticut residents believe Congress has rushed the process and should take more time to get it right
* More than three-quarters of voters, 77 percent, say they are very concerned or somewhat concerned that changes in health care will result in more government spending, higher taxes, and a bigger budget deficit. 61% described theselves as “very concerned” about these possibilities
* Half of state residents say the changes to health care being considered will do more harm than good

...voters with an opinion on reform strategy broke almost 2-1 for the incremental approach rather than comprehensive reform, 44%/23%. The additional 33% with no opinion could very well be those who want to leave the system as it is; 49.8% said that government action will do more harm than good, and an additional 14% were undecided on government action. Only 36% said that government intervention was necessary.

In a recession, the idea of taxing businesses doesn’t get very much traction, either. Only 31% of Connecticut voters support tax penalties for businesses that don’t offer health insurance, while 44% oppose it altogether. That opposition jumps to 59% when the question of individual mandates gets asked in the form of tax penalties, and support drops to 24%.

Most interesting for such a blue state, the idea of expanding Medicaid to gain universal coverage is a non-starter. Only 26% support the proposal, while 47% oppose. The entire point of the effort was supposedly to get everyone insured, and even traditionally liberal voters in Connecticut pass on the idea of hammering state budgets to do it....
 

cpwill

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The final tracking numbers show that 40% of voters nationwide favor the plan while 58% are opposed. Support has remained between 38% and 42% every week since Thanksgiving.

...For months, most voters have believed that passage of the plan would lead to higher costs and lower quality of care. From the beginning of the health care debate, another challenge has been the fact that most Americans have insurance and are generally happy with their coverage. However, 52% of voters fear that they could be forced to change insurance if the health care legislation passes.

Adding to concerns about paying for the plan is the fact that 78% of voters expect it to cost more than projected. Voters overwhelmingly believe passage of the plan will increase the federal deficit and lead to middle-class tax hikes.

Most voters also dislike the propose excise taxes on “Cadillac” health insurance plans. Opposition is even higher when union workers are exempted from that tax, as the White House and Democratic congressional leaders agreed to do last week to get more support for the overall plan.

...Also consistent throughout the health care debate has been the partisan nature of the response. The latest numbers show that 75% of Democrats favor the plan, while 89% of Republicans are opposed. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 30% support the plan, and 66% are opposed....
 

Boo Radley

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The final tracking numbers show that 40% of voters nationwide favor the plan while 58% are opposed. Support has remained between 38% and 42% every week since Thanksgiving.

...For months, most voters have believed that passage of the plan would lead to higher costs and lower quality of care. From the beginning of the health care debate, another challenge has been the fact that most Americans have insurance and are generally happy with their coverage. However, 52% of voters fear that they could be forced to change insurance if the health care legislation passes.

Adding to concerns about paying for the plan is the fact that 78% of voters expect it to cost more than projected. Voters overwhelmingly believe passage of the plan will increase the federal deficit and lead to middle-class tax hikes.

Most voters also dislike the propose excise taxes on “Cadillac” health insurance plans. Opposition is even higher when union workers are exempted from that tax, as the White House and Democratic congressional leaders agreed to do last week to get more support for the overall plan.

...Also consistent throughout the health care debate has been the partisan nature of the response. The latest numbers show that 75% of Democrats favor the plan, while 89% of Republicans are opposed. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 30% support the plan, and 66% are opposed....
From your poll:

While most Americans oppose the plan, two reforms in it are supported by more than 70% of the public -- creating a new national insurance exchange and requiring health insurance companies to accept applicants with pre-existing conditions.


Being opposed can also mean that the plan doesn't go far enough. Also, believing it will pass doesn't really tell us much about the validity of the plan. Kind of a silly question to even ask. The Ad Populum fallacy at work here.
 

Glinda

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cpwill

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:roll:


I think it's clear that I specifically asked for j-mac's analysis.

j-mac? Can we hear from you?
woops, sorry. didn't mean to provide inconvenient data ;)
 

cpwill

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While most Americans oppose the plan, two reforms in it are supported by more than 70% of the public -- creating a new national insurance exchange and requiring health insurance companies to accept applicants with pre-existing conditions.
yup.

Being opposed can also mean that the plan doesn't go far enough.
it can, but that's not the position of the vast majority of opponents.
 

washunut

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Just thought I'd point this out, because I keep reading and hearing GOP members say that a majority of Americans don't want reform and are happy as can be with the current system. A recent poll show that this is not true:

Poll: Bipartisanship popular, compromise tricky - Behind the Numbers

Further, "nearly six in 10 in the new poll say the Republicans aren't doing enough to forge compromise with President Obama on important issues; more than four in 10 see Obama as doing too little to get GOP support. Among independents, 56 percent see the Republicans in Congress as too unbending and 50 percent say so of the president; 28 percent of independents say both sides are doing too little to find agreement."

Seriously, while this obstructionism is doing great with the rank-and-file GOP members, it's not attracting the moderates the GOP needs if they want to win.



We need both sides to really compromise. I know I want reform, but not the bills produced so far. I would rather have no bill than the one proposed and then say we took care of the issue.

We deserve real reform. Both parties are equally guilty. The republicans for not putting real answers on the table, and the democrats for putting out a lousy bill that makes insurance and pharma companies happy.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Just thought I'd point this out, because I keep reading and hearing GOP members say that a majority of Americans don't want reform and are happy as can be with the current system. A recent poll show that this is not true:

Poll: Bipartisanship popular, compromise tricky - Behind the Numbers

Further, "nearly six in 10 in the new poll say the Republicans aren't doing enough to forge compromise with President Obama on important issues; more than four in 10 see Obama as doing too little to get GOP support. Among independents, 56 percent see the Republicans in Congress as too unbending and 50 percent say so of the president; 28 percent of independents say both sides are doing too little to find agreement."

Seriously, while this obstructionism is doing great with the rank-and-file GOP members, it's not attracting the moderates the GOP needs if they want to win.



If everyone wanted to jump off a sky scraper, would that be a good idea to?
 

Boo Radley

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it can, but that's not the position of the vast majority of opponents.
I see no evidence of that, as noted most want many of the programs they won't get. Remember, a major even favored the public option.
 

jamesrage

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Just thought I'd point this out, because I keep reading and hearing GOP members say that a majority of Americans don't want reform and are happy as can be with the current system. A recent poll show that this is not true:

Poll: Bipartisanship popular, compromise tricky - Behind the Numbers

Further, "nearly six in 10 in the new poll say the Republicans aren't doing enough to forge compromise with President Obama on important issues; more than four in 10 see Obama as doing too little to get GOP support. Among independents, 56 percent see the Republicans in Congress as too unbending and 50 percent say so of the president; 28 percent of independents say both sides are doing too little to find agreement."

Seriously, while this obstructionism is doing great with the rank-and-file GOP members, it's not attracting the moderates the GOP needs if they want to win.




Yo would be right be right but reform is in the eye of the beholder. For you or some other lib socialized medicine might be reform. But to me my idea of reform is making the Certificate of Need requirements just to build a hospital made illegal in order to increase competition among hospitals.
 

cpwill

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I see no evidence of that, as noted most want many of the programs they won't get. Remember, a major even favored the public option.
until they found out more about it.

Forty percent (40%) of voters now favor the creation of a government-sponsored non-profit health insurance option that people could choose instead of a private health insurance plan. But 48% oppose such an option.

...63% of voters say it is more important to guarantee that no one is forced to change their health insurance coverage than it is to give consumers the choice of a government-sponsored non-profit health insurance option. Thirty percent (30%) think the “public option” is more important.

...Voters have consistently sent mixed signals about the creation of a “public option,” but opposition grows dramatically if it threatens to force them to change health insurance coverage. Most Democrats, however, favor a “public option” and believe the creation of such an option is more important than guaranteeing that no one is forced to change their existing health insurance coverage. Most Republicans and unaffiliateds disagree.

Sixty percent (60%) believe passage of the health care legislation will increase the deficit. That’s likely to be one reason why 57% say it would be better to pass no health care reform bill this year than to pass the plan currently being considered by Congress...
 

The_Penguin

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Just thought I'd point this out, because I keep reading and hearing GOP members say that a majority of Americans don't want reform and are happy as can be with the current system. A recent poll show that this is not true:

Poll: Bipartisanship popular, compromise tricky - Behind the Numbers

Further, "nearly six in 10 in the new poll say the Republicans aren't doing enough to forge compromise with President Obama on important issues; more than four in 10 see Obama as doing too little to get GOP support. Among independents, 56 percent see the Republicans in Congress as too unbending and 50 percent say so of the president; 28 percent of independents say both sides are doing too little to find agreement."

Seriously, while this obstructionism is doing great with the rank-and-file GOP members, it's not attracting the moderates the GOP needs if they want to win.



Yes, the people are correct. I'd love some reform. However, as I'm looking at the life-insurance industry and how it was deregulated and forced to underbid itself in order to bring lower costs to customers, I can't help but wonder why can't we do the same thing to the health-care industry?

Lets entertain this argument for a sec. We seriously de-regulate as to what it takes to get insurance. At the moment, it's wicked expensive and most people get it through their employer or co-op of some form (lots of people get together and join, what it amounts to, an interface to the health-care companies a large entity.) Now, say that a company in Kansas thinks it can lower the price for 2% over a provider in Utah. Ideally, that company should be able to put up some advertising in Utah and say, hey, guess what, you can now save a nickel or two by just switching to us. They can have a little gecko saying this if they want to :) . The provider in Utah freaks out and starts thinking of either how to provide more value on the same buck or lower prices.

At the moment, the above scenario is impossible. The current regulations make it difficult for me to go to a doctor in New Hampshire and get my fillings done there or get a company from that state to cover me. This is compounded by the fact that the Medicare system essentially rewards inefficiency. The key to having a sustainable system for health-care will be one that harnesses the forces of the free-market to continually bring lower prices. Think about Six Sigma and 5S, this wasn't a creation of a government entity.
 
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