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Zimmerman 2nd degree murder

Happens every day in a big city...Hell, research Nashville, I am sure you can see it there as well.



No, but at the time their was only lip service played to local media about this incident, with no one caught for the crime, then nothing. Where is the mega phones for them?



Hey, wait just a gall darn minute here? I didn't call you any names, but I disagree with your blind charge of corruption, and I am the one being stupid? Check yourself man.





Well, I don't know if you were, or were not pulled in by the media lies at the time it was going on, but I wasn't....unfortunately in this case you have allowed yourself to be.




Crying about? heh, heh...Yeah right. I have had it up to my finely chiseled ass with all this misrepresentation. When this story was first coming to light, I, at first glance started out with being in full support, and full throated with the position you are now taking, that is UNTIL, I started to read articles, and think logically, and you know what?? To be Sooooooo down one way or the other at this moment is what is truly stupid.



So this isn't you?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...rman-2nd-degree-murder-62.html#post1060405374

Hmmm. Seems you can't even remember what you post from page to page, so I don't think I'll be taking your call to me to "get my facts straight" very seriously....sorry.



My buddies? like who? Oh, and BTW, this "public outcry" resulted in the NBPP placing a bounty "dead or alive" on Zim's head to be tried in "street court"...Is that the noble public outcry you admire so? Where is your call to prosecute those jack asses?
j-mac

The NBP didn't come out of the woodwork until 4 weeks after the murder.. The public outcry started in the churches weeks earlier.
 
very similar. also like the duke lacrosse players situation, too
al came out shooting from the hip in all three circumstances, insisting that zimmerman, the duke team, and the person accused by tawana brawley were guilty, even tho the facts would not support that conclusion

Could you outline what Al Sharpton's role was in the Duke Lacrosse case? I remember seeing him on Bill O'Reilly's show at the time and he claimed he wasn't involved in the case. There also no entry regarding the case on his Wiki page which lists, perhaps, all the high profiles he has been involved in.
 
We had the NYtimes for God's sake, trying to term Zim as a "white hispanic"... What the hell is that?

Well, the Sanford police report listed Zimmerman as white. So, beside the fact that those who are of a Hispanic/Latino background are racially diverse (i.e. different Hispanic individuals can be fit in different racial groups), it would seem as if the NYT and other media outlets that described Zimmerman as "white Hispanic" at least tried to be more specific in describing Zimmerman.

It's also rather ironic how mentioning all of Zimmerman's parental heritage is supposed to be a problem when certain people took issue with Barack Obama simply being described/identified as "black."
 
I can't believe, you don't or did not know....:shock:

Must have slipped your mind :)

I know George Zimmerman has a brother.. didn't know he had a sister.
 
Which gang wars and drug deals did the police or DA there decided upon themselves to let the gangsters and drug dealers just walk free without prosecution because the police chief and DA completely believed their story without need of further investigation?

Please provide the evidence for your assumption that the Sanford Police Department had closed the case. I'll wait. 'Til doomsday. The SPD had not closed the case. There was an ongoing investigation. Some of the witnesses, IIR, were interviewed as late as five days after the murder. Evidence please that this case was closed.
 
Please provide the evidence for your assumption that the Sanford Police Department had closed the case.

Well, Sanford Chief Bill Lee holding a press conference a couple of weeks after the shooting announcing that not only did SPD not have enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman on the night of the incident but still, at that time, didn't "have anything to dispute this was self-defense," doesn't inspire any confidence that any real investigation was ongoing despite apparent lip service about conducting a thorough investigation.

Also, his unprofessional and odd racial butt-hurt (“We are basing our investigation based on facts and circumstances not the color of the individual’s skin... As a white man in a uniform, I know that doesn’t mean anything to anybody...”
) didn't inspire any confidence either.
 
Well, Sanford Chief Bill Lee holding a press conference a couple of weeks after the shooting announcing that not only did SPD not have enough evidence to arrest Zimmerman on the night of the incident but still, at that time, didn't "have anything to dispute this was self-defense," doesn't inspire any confidence that any real investigation was ongoing despite apparent lip service about conducting a thorough investigation.

Also, his unprofessional and odd racial butt-hurt (“We are basing our investigation based on facts and circumstances not the color of the individual’s skin... As a white man in a uniform, I know that doesn’t mean anything to anybody...”
) didn't inspire any confidence either.

So, IOW, no evidence the case was closed.
 
When Serino filed a capias to Wolfinger, it would have included an affidavit of evidence against Zim...that is how it works...he was the lead investigator, the capias was his.

You are contradicting yourself, first you say there are 2 different "situations" (I guess you are saying that the first submission of the capias and some other imagined submission (that you won't document) are the "situations") but then you deny that the first submission even happened.

Of course, none of your denials even touches the fact that Serino did file a capias to Wolfinger and that it would have included the affidavit for charges.
The one that was alleged to have happen on the night of the incident, the 26th, has not been proven to exist.
 
So, IOW, no evidence the case was closed.

More like no evidence that there was any real effort to continue investigating the incident. Again, Chief Lee's press conference was two weeks after the shooting and, technically speaking, cases can be "open" without any active investigation. So, with the kind of statements Chief Lee made where, if you noticed, he didn't say "we are still trying to confirm Mr. Zimmerman's story" or "we are continuing to investigate leads" or "we are waiting on results from the xyz examination" or some-such but instead reiterated how SPD supposedly didn't have any evidence to arrest Zimmerman on the night of the incident and still didn't have any evidence after two weeks after the fatal shooting... Again, no confidence that there was any real investigation going on.

You'll also notice Dolphinocean didn't claim that the case was "closed." So, I'll challenge you to provide evidence that the SPD actively continued conducting the investigation (e.g. interviewing or re-interviewing witnesses, Zimmerman, etc.) into the shooting at the time of and/or after Chief Lee's press conference.
 
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So, IOW, no evidence the case was closed.

Well there is that pesky vote of no confidence and the end of Bill Lee's law enforcement career.

Did you know he was the former dean of Seminole College where GZ was going to school?
 
Happens every day in a big city...Hell, research Nashville, I am sure you can see it there as well.
Are you claiming that gangsters and drug dealers who shot and killed unarmed persons on the streets and then claimed self-defense were allowed to walk free without any consequences and that these happens every day in big city?

No, but at the time their was only lip service played to local media about this incident, with no one caught for the crime, then nothing. Where is the mega phones for them?
If no one is caught for the crime then who do you expect they are going to charge? It's not like the police chief or the DA in that case bought the killer's story and letting the killer just walk free as in Zimmerman's case. Zimmerman was there with his weapon when the police arrived at the scene. You are comparing apples and oranges. So, stay alert and think clearly, will ya?

Hey, wait just a gall darn minute here? I didn't call you any names, but I disagree with your blind charge of corruption, and I am the one being stupid? Check yourself man.
Just where did I call you name or stupid? Please read what I wrote and comprehend it before you shoot off with your mouth. Also, I said "police/DA injustice". How does that become my "blind charge of corruption"?

Well, I don't know if you were, or were not pulled in by the media lies at the time it was going on, but I wasn't....unfortunately in this case you have allowed yourself to be.
Since day one after reading the father's petition through change.org, all I was asking was for the Sanford police dept to do its job to conduct a proper and thorough investigation and to follow up with appropriate criminal charges if there was probable cause.

When this case exploded in the media, I have seen vast majority of the public crying out for the same justice I was asking for Trayvon. Only a few handful was on Zimmerman's side. When Zimmerman's non-emergency call to the dispatch about Trayvon suspicion came out and other details concerning that night emerged, people were definitely seeing the probable cause for at least a negligence of some sort on Zimmerman's part. But, when somebody leaked to the media about Trayvon's school suspension details and photographs of him at his age or in certain pose, which are entirely much-ado-about-nothing, benigh and irrelevant, nevertheless it did sway quite a bit of people from the majority.

As for me, I still hold that the police should have done a thorough investigation before trying to dismiss the case instead of letting the killer just walk. From what I've seen of those leaked evidence, there is certainly enough probable cause for an arrest for criminal negligence of some level such as negligent homicide. Fortunately, the special prosecutor did just that and a judge did find probable cause for the charge of 2nd degree murder, which I wasn't expecting. But, she has the evidence and we don't. Whether Zimmerman is guilty or not is for the jury to decide and not us.

But, here you have people day in and day out trying to demonize Trayvon and his parents and to declare Zimmerman innocence based on his claim and insisted he should not even be charged of any crime. Others simply disagree with this view. This is where the debate is all about. While some would go into who did what first to whom kind of stuffs, I generally stay clear of that since now this case is in the court of our justice system.

Since Zimmerman is now charged of 2nd degree murder, he is and should be in jail until a bail is set by the judge. So. what's wrong with that?

Crying about? heh, heh...Yeah right. I have had it up to my finely chiseled ass with all this misrepresentation. When this story was first coming to light, I, at first glance started out with being in full support, and full throated with the position you are now taking, that is UNTIL, I started to read articles, and think logically, and you know what?? To be Sooooooo down one way or the other at this moment is what is truly stupid.
Do you twist and bend so easily with the winds?

This case is about an unarmed kid walking on the street minding his own business but then shot to death by an armed adult who followed him because he thought the kid was acting suspicious.

Does this fact alone not warrant a thorough investigation instead of simply taking the killer's story and let him walk without further ado within a matter of days if not 24 hours?

With what we know about this case, don't you at least agree with the judge who read the special prosecutor's affidavit and declared that he find probable case for the charge?

So, in between all these media ruckus and all these speculative debates and character assassination of the dead victim who can't speak for himself, the probable cause (not guilty or not guilty as in a trail) for some kind of negligent charges, if not 2nd degree murder, should still be solidly grounded in principle if you still have any sense of justice in your character and not be easily wavered by irrelevant stuffs.

So this isn't you?

Page Not Found - Debate Politics Forums (Zimmerman 2nd degree murder)

Hmmm. Seems you can't even remember what you post from page to page, so I don't think I'll be taking your call to me to "get my facts straight" very seriously....sorry.
If you follow the thread and read what was said, you would know that the person who brought up these was the poster I responded to. Jeez, I don't even have to lay it out for you.

My buddies? like who? Oh, and BTW, this "public outcry" resulted in the NBPP placing a bounty "dead or alive" on Zim's head to be tried in "street court"...Is that the noble public outcry you admire so? Where is your call to prosecute those jack asses?
Those mess? Why should I clean up your mess?
 
Please provide the evidence for your assumption that the Sanford Police Department had closed the case. I'll wait. 'Til doomsday. The SPD had not closed the case. There was an ongoing investigation. Some of the witnesses, IIR, were interviewed as late as five days after the murder. Evidence please that this case was closed.
Don't get technical with me.

When the police chief refused the family's attorney and influential friends to continue with the investigation of the case, he effectively told them the shooting was a case of self-defense and won't gave an inch even when they told him if they gone public it would be like a wreck train coming his way.

What did the police do when the case went public? He continued to tell the public of the same story that the injuries suffered by Zimmerman is consistent with his claim of self-defense. If the case wasn't dismiss, he should have said the case is still under investigation and that's all the family was asking at the beginning. But he didn't and that's why the special prosecutor was appointed to take over the case.
 
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You'll also notice Dolphinocean didn't claim that the case was "closed." So, I'll challenge you to provide evidence that the SPD actively continued conducting the investigation (e.g. interviewing or re-interviewing witnesses, Zimmerman, etc.) into the shooting at the time of and/or after Chief Lee's press conference.

Al Sharpton and other bad elements won't be coming out of the woodwork and there won't be any public outcry if the previous Sanford police chief and DA had diligently did their duty and carry out their responsibilty properly in the first place instead of hastily and eagerly trying to sweep the case clean under the rug to let the killer go free. If the previous DA had done what this special prosecutor did, i.e. did the investigation and file charges before a judge, then we won't be hearing any of this from the media nor from the bad elements you're crying about.

I'm not looking for anything. Dolphin said the case was "swept clean under the rug." Where is proof? People are slandering the Sanford PD...jumping to ridiculous conclusions -- there is absolutely no evidence that the investigation was over. In fact, one of the witnesses complained it took five days to interview her. The investigation was ongoing. It was not "over." There is no reason to believe it was over. And people who say that are just jumping to conclusions.

And you think this guy can get a fair trial??
 
I'm not looking for anything. Dolphin said the case was "swept clean under the rug." Where is proof? People are slandering the Sanford PD...jumping to ridiculous conclusions -- there is absolutely no evidence that the investigation was over. In fact, one of the witnesses complained it took five days to interview her. The investigation was ongoing. It was not "over." There is no reason to believe it was over. And people who say that are just jumping to conclusions.

And you think this guy can get a fair trial??
Like I said, don't get sqicky technical on me.

Tracy Martin's relative who is a lawyer and knew some people who find this attorney and they at first assured Martin that the Sandord police is handling the case and to "let's wait and see" until they found out they weren't going to do anything on the basis that it was a self-defense case. I hate repeat myself again but read my above post.

If you're still not satified, too bad.
 
I'm not looking for anything. Dolphin said the case was "swept clean under the rug." Where is proof? People are slandering the Sanford PD...jumping to ridiculous conclusions -- there is absolutely no evidence that the investigation was over. In fact, one of the witnesses complained it took five days to interview her. The investigation was ongoing. It was not "over." There is no reason to believe it was over. And people who say that are just jumping to conclusions.

And you think this guy can get a fair trial??
Another thing, this is about the Sanford police chief handling of this case. It's not about Zimmerman that night per se. What does it gotta do with Zimmerman getting a fair trial?

Stop crying wolf, will ya?
 
Another thing, this is about the Sanford police chief handling of this case. It's not about Zimmerman that night per se. What does it gotta do with Zimmerman getting a fair trial?

Stop crying wolf, will ya?

How about addressing my post?

It's about lies, made-up stuff, postulating out of one's ass, and the tooth fairy.
 
How about addressing my post?

It's about lies, made-up stuff, postulating out of one's ass, and the tooth fairy.
The lies and made-up stuff are with the Sanford police chief whom you support when he said there was no probable cause to arrest Zimmanman. Well, the special prosecutor proved both you and him wrong and the judge agreed with her that he found probable cause far more than the negligent homicide that a detective was planning on filing.

If the police chief wasn't trying to dismiss the case, the Martin family and their lawyer and friends would have waited it out patiently like they waited it out patiently with the special prosecuotor when she made known that the investigation is on going and said nothing more.
 
...there is absolutely no evidence that the investigation was over. In fact, one of the witnesses complained it took five days to interview her. The investigation was ongoing. It was not "over."

Five days would fall well short of the 14 or so days between the shooting (Feb 26th) and Chief Lee's press conference which I believe was on March 12th. In that press conference, again, instead of saying SPD was still conducting interviews or collecting evidence or awaiting results to determine this or that, Chief Lee declared that there was evidence that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

Now, seriously, 14 or so days after the shooting what was the SPD investigating that would have had them go against the what the Chief declared as evidence Zimmerman acted in self-defense?

Again, the press conference was well after the five days it took to interview that witness you referenced and, if it's the same witness I'm thinking of, you only serve to undermine your claim that the investigation was ongoing. If it's the same witness, they said they didn't believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense. So, here you are giving justification for why the SPD is negatively viewed.

Notice, again, Chief Lee didn't say "we are attempting to confirm Mr. Zimmerman's story" and his definitely didn't indicate that there was conflicting stories... He flat out stated there was evidence (based on what Zimmerman's and an unidentified witness' statement) Zimmerman acted in self-defense.
 
Could you outline what Al Sharpton's role was in the Duke Lacrosse case? I remember seeing him on Bill O'Reilly's show at the time and he claimed he wasn't involved in the case. There also no entry regarding the case on his Wiki page which lists, perhaps, all the high profiles he has been involved in.

here you go:
Al Sharpton on the Duke Rape Arrests | Fox News
I think that there are certainly a lot of racial factors. Whether it is directly in the case, we'll see, because some reports said that there was racial language used. But I think that when you look at the racial atmosphere, when you look at the fact that there again were the allegations of racial statements, when you look at a lot of people feeling that they have been treated differently, where this girl has basically had a character charged in the media, there is a lot of racism that's in the air. Having said that, I commend a lot of the blacks and whites who stood vigil and to come together in that community to stand up for this girl. So I think in the midst of this, there is some good.
... But I think that all of the facts that you have laid out the DA had — and I know this DA is probably not one that is crazy. He would not have proceeded if he did not feel that he could convict. So it tells me that all of what you said is either not true or he has convincing evidence that would certainly knock that out and no one is not letting him proceed. You know, a lot of those community leaders down there, pro and con, wanted a lot of people to come in. I know for a fact asked Jesse Jackson to come, we said we don't want to be (INAUDIBLE)...
 

Sorry, that doesn't outline his role in that case. He was simply interviewed on the case. Matter of fact, that was the view O'Reilly interview I referenced in my post. In that interview, Sharpton said he wasn't involved in the case. A mere appearance on O'Reilly doesn't amount to him having a role/involvement in the case.

The funny part is you cut off the interview where Sharpton/O'Reilly note how Sharpton wasn't involved in the case (i.e. the community protests, etc
SHARPTON: But I think that all of the facts that you have laid out the DA had — and I know this DA is probably not one that is crazy. He would not have proceeded if he did not feel that he could convict. So it tells me that all of what you said is either not true or he has convincing evidence that would certainly knock that out and no one is not letting him proceed. You know, a lot of those community leaders down there, pro and con, wanted a lot of people to come in. I know for a fact asked Jesse Jackson to come, we said we don't want to be (INAUDIBLE)...

O'REILLY: So you didn't go down, Jackson did go down. I don't want what happened to Amadou Diallo, remember Amadou Diallo.

So, my question is: why do people act like Sharpton was involved in the Duke Lacrosse case? Why did you link to an O'Reilly interview (the one I mentioned) as opposed to news articles that cited Sharpton involvement in the case?

It's like people have SDS... Sharpton Derangement Syndrome. lol
 
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Sorry, that doesn't outline his role in that case. He was simply interviewed on the case. Matter of fact, that was the view O'Reilly interview I referenced in my post. In that interview, Sharpton said he wasn't involved in the case. A mere appearance on O'Reilly doesn't amount to him having a role/involvement in the case.

The funny part is you cut off the interview where Sharpton/O'Reilly note how Sharpton wasn't involved in the case (i.e. the community protests, etc


So, my question is: why do people act like Sharpton was involved in the Duke Lacrosse case? Why did you link to an O'Reilly interview (the one I mentioned) as opposed to news articles that cited Sharpton involvement in the case?

It's like people have SDS... Sharpton Derangement Syndrome. lol

he did what he always does
finds access to a microphone and declares the person of color in an incident to be the victim, even if they are not
 
he did what he always does
finds access to a microphone and declares the person of color in an incident to be the victim, even if they are not

Well, the access to the microphone was given to him by O'Reilly and his interview on O'Reilly still does not answer my question about his role he served, if any, in the case. There were plenty of people who were on TV at the time who made statements similar to Sharpton but, for some reason, they haven't inspired the kind of derangement you have regarding Sharpton especially since, in this case, Trayvon Martin is, indeed, the shooting victim and, contrary to your claim, Sharpton's advocacy in the Martin case doesn't go against the grain of the evidence.
 
Wrong, he was arrested for murder because a prosecutor believes that is what he did. He admitted shooting the guy the night it happened, why did it take over a month to bring up charges?

As has already been pointed out it can sometimes take a long time to examine and analyse the evidence, and for charges to emerge therefrom.

Part of the reason he was arrested is that he admitted to shooting and killing Trayvon Martin. I did not state that he admitted to murder, merely the homicide of the 17 year old. You are correct in your assumption that the prosecutor believes his act to comprise murder in the second degree, which will be established, or otherwise, in court, but there is no controversy surrounding the fact that he killed Trayvon Martin.

Just a little FYI, if its found to be self defense, its not illegal homicide.

Thank you for that information, none of which negates my statement - "Whether he can resort to the mitigating circumstance of self-defence is what will be decided in court, but he nonetheless committed what, without mitigation, is an illegal homicide."

My future professional life will involve wearing a horsehair wig, and arguing cases at law, so I am aware of the importance of precision in language, and I attempt to use words accordingly. :)
 
Well there is that pesky vote of no confidence and [highlight]the end of Bill Lee's law enforcement career[/highlight].
Where do you get this from?

Or are you just spouting more bs that you want to believe?
 
The one that was alleged to have happen on the night of the incident, the 26th, has not been proven to exist.
You guys are so confused, it is so sad. The investigation ended on the 26th of Feb, that is when Serino submitted the capias to the State Attorney:
1. What was the purported “conflict” that required the initial prosecutor to step down? On March 22 — after several weeks on the job — state attorney Norm Wolfinger stepped down from his role as prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case. Wolfinger relinquished his post after meeting with Florida Gov. Rick Scott and Attorney General Pam Bondi. He said it was necessary for him to step aside to preserve “the integrity of this investigation,” adding he wanted to avoid “the appearance of a conflict of interest.” He did not explain why his continued involvement would damage the integrity of the case or explain the potential conflict he was seeking to avoid. Did anyone at the prosecutor’s office know Zimmerman or his family? [Orlando Sentinel]
2. Why did the prosecutor ignore the recommendations of the lead homicide investigator? ABC News reported that Chris Serino, the lead homicide investigator on the Trayvon Martin case, recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter on the night of the shooting. Serino filed an affidavit that night stating “he was unconvinced Zimmerman’s version of events.” As the lead homicide investigator, Serino was: 1. In the best position to evaluate Zimmerman’s credibility, and 2. Intimately familiar with Florida law. Why was he ignored? [ABC News]
3. Why did then-Police Chief Bill Lee make public statements directly contradicting the official recommendations of the police department? On the day the Sanford Police concluded their investigation and handed over the case to the prosecutor, then-Police Chief Bill Lee stated publicly that there was no “probable cause” to arrest or charge Zimmerman. (Lee has subsequently “temporarily” stepped down from his post.) But the Miami Herald reports that on the same day the Sanford Police formally requested that the prosecutor charge Zimmerman, something known as a “capias” request.
Project Me This!: Trayvon Martin - ThinkProgress.org
 
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