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Zimmerman 2nd degree murder

Nothing similiar except your racism which you are keen to spread around even when it doesn't apply.

there was NOTHING racist about this incident
until it was fabricated by the likes of al and jesse to be one
 
Nothing similiar except your racism which you are keen to spread around even when it doesn't apply.
Really unnecessary comment and it allows bub an out.

You are better than this.
 
Nothing similiar except your racism which you are keen to spread around even when it doesn't apply.

I'm trying my best to be nice...

the tawana brawley travesty is the epitome of that.

It was a sham beyond all shams, yet the press, the radical racist false clergy and the socialists all rallied around the stupid little ****.

Practically, the same crap thats going on in this case

Read it, print it and frame it...

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin


For the Revs. Jackson and Sharpton, for the increasingly redundant civil rights establishment, for liberal blacks and the broader American left, the poetic truth that white racism is somehow the real culprit in this tragedy is redemption itself. The reason Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have become such disreputable figures on our cultural landscape is that they are such quick purveyors of poetic truth rather than literal truth.

The great trick of poetic truth is to pass itself off as the deep and essential truth so that hard facts that refute it must be dismissed in the name of truth. O.J. Simpson was innocent by the poetic truth that the justice system is stacked against blacks. Trayvon was a victim of racist stereotyping—though the shooter never mentioned his race until asked to do so.

There is now a long litany of racial dust-ups—from Tawana Brawley to the Duke University lacrosse players to the white Cambridge police officer who arrested Harvard professor Skip Gates a summer ago—in which the poetic truth of white racism and black victimization is invoked so that the actual truth becomes dismissible as yet more racism.

When the Cambridge cop or the Duke lacrosse players or the men accused of raping Tawana Brawley tried to defend themselves, they were already so stained by poetic truth as to never be entirely redeemed. No matter the facts—whether Trayvon Martin was his victim or his assailant—George Zimmerman will also never be entirely redeemed.
 
there was NOTHING racist about this incident
until it was fabricated by the likes of al and jesse to be one

GZ had a problem with black males in the neighborhood. The property values had fallen from $250K to less than $100K . Half the residents and tenants were blacks and 50 % of the houses are now rentals.
 
GZ had a problem with black males in the neighborhood. The property values had fallen from $250K to less than $100K . Half the residents and tenants were blacks and 50 % of the houses are now rentals.
?

GZ's sister dating or is she married to a black dude?
 
No, because you made the claim that someone was trying to confuse Maggie. I didn't see anyone do that so I asked you who. You are now officially in diversion mode.


Whoaaaa ... why did you stop there ... ? Wolfinger went on to say ...

"I am outraged by the outright lies contained in the letter by Benjamin Crump to Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin dated April 2, 2012. I encourage the Justice Department to investigate and document that no such meeting or communication occurred. I have been encouraging those spreading the irresponsible rhetoric to stop and allow State Attorney Angela Corey to complete her work. Another falsehood distributed to the media does nothing to forward that process." ~ Norm Wolfinger

... the only thing he identified as "lies contained in that letter" was a meeting or communication involving him. He did not dispute Serino's opinion that he wasn't buying Zimmerman's account; and more to the point, he didn't dispute that Serino filed an affidavit. That is not being disputed.
:lamo
Are you not able to put two and two together?
Really?

The letter was about a supposed quashed affidavit.
If the meeting and communication never took place, because they are out right lies, then there is no affidavit that was discussed. It is fabrication.

Unless proof of it's existence can be provided, it doesn't exist for discussion of evidence.




No, it is proving that such an affidavit exited, something bubba was trying to deny.
It does not prove it exists.



Again, is the argument over the date, or the existence of the affidavit? When it was filed, the exact date has no bearing on whether it existed.
I think the point there is that she was speaking of an entirely different situation than the first. As noted.
It is pretty obvious she was.


A law-enforcement source, who had been informed of the case by investigators, told Reuters that Serino was eager to bring a charge but encountered resistance from the office of the prosecutor, State Attorney Norman Wolfinger.

"Chris (Serino) would have made a recommendation for manslaughter, but Norm Wolfinger's office wanted it to be a slam dunk," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They don't want to hear that this is wrong or that is wrong with the case. That's the way this county does business." Wolfinger on Monday broke a long silence about the case, denying reports he quashed police intentions to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.
Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries | Reuters
Well looky what we have here!

A third party anonymous source. :lamo
Well Golly Gee Wilikers that there kinda source is enough to make me want to go right out an buy some Enron stocks if he recommended them.
And jeepers, he says the guy "would have", not that he actually did.

Yep that is a clincher.
It is now confirmed that Serino filed an affidavit that very night.
Not!

Yep! Fabrication.
 
here's Reuters having the gist of the Serino story confirmed


Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries | Reuters

Sanford police released Zimmerman without charge, but [Tracy] Martin says Serino told him he would challenge Zimmerman's account. "The detective's words were, 'I want to interview him again to catch him in a lie,'" Martin said.
A law-enforcement source, who had been informed of the case by investigators, told Reuters that Serino was eager to bring a charge but encountered resistance from the office of the prosecutor, State Attorney Norman Wolfinger.
"Chris (Serino) would have made a recommendation for manslaughter, but Norm Wolfinger's office wanted it to be a slam dunk," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They don't want to hear that this is wrong or that is wrong with the case. That's the way this county does business." Wolfinger on Monday broke a long silence about the case, denying reports he quashed police intentions to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.

"who had been informed of the case by investigators"
I have heard that Lee has given some interviews on background only.
 
:lamo
Are you not able to put two and two together?
Really?

The letter was about a supposed quashed affidavit.
If the meeting and communication never took place, because they are out right lies, then there is no affidavit that was discussed. It is fabrication.
Recheck what I have already posted in re this.

I provided Wolfinger's actual letter. It wasn't Wolfinger, but his office. He never had any such meeting nor communication as Crump alleged in his letter and as Rand repeated later.
It wasn't Wolfinger that had the meeting or communication..

ABC sites more than one source, and Reuters also sites a source.
 
And jeepers, he says the guy "would have", not that he actually did.

Yep that is a clincher.
It is now confirmed that Serino filed an affidavit that very night.
Not!
Are you still trying to deny that a capias existed, that an affidavit showing evidence for arrest would not have been included?
What a garbled mess.

Tracy Martin, the father, talked directly to Chris Serino the next day after his son was killed. Chris told him he did not believe Zim. Chris would not file a capias for arrest if he did not include his findings for arrest (the affidavit).

Now you can go on believing that Chris did not have suspicions, did not create a document for arrest, and did not include it in the capias.

That is fine with me, but like I said, that is some heavy duty denial.
 
here's Reuters having the gist of the Serino story confirmed


Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries | Reuters

Sanford police released Zimmerman without charge, but [Tracy] Martin says Serino told him he would challenge Zimmerman's account. "The detective's words were, 'I want to interview him again to catch him in a lie,'" Martin said.
A law-enforcement source, who had been informed of the case by investigators, told Reuters that Serino was eager to bring a charge but encountered resistance from the office of the prosecutor, State Attorney Norman Wolfinger.
"Chris (Serino) would have made a recommendation for manslaughter, but Norm Wolfinger's office wanted it to be a slam dunk," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They don't want to hear that this is wrong or that is wrong with the case. That's the way this county does business." Wolfinger on Monday broke a long silence about the case, denying reports he quashed police intentions to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.

"who had been informed of the case by investigators"
I have heard that Lee has given some interviews on background only.
I already posted this twice, it backs the claim that Serino had filed a capias for arrest and gave it to Wolfinger.
 
:lamo
Are you not able to put two and two together?
Really?
Translation: you are making it up.

I am going by what he said.

You are trying to extrapolate what you want him to say based on plugging together things you think he said.
 
Recheck what I have already posted in re this.

I provided Wolfinger's actual letter. It wasn't Wolfinger, but his office. He never had any such meeting nor communication as Crump alleged in his letter and as Rand repeated later.
It wasn't Wolfinger that had the meeting or communication..

ABC sites more than one source, and Reuters also sites a source.
Ok.

here's Reuters having the gist of the Serino story confirmed


Trayvon Martin: Before the world heard the cries | Reuters

Sanford police released Zimmerman without charge, but [Tracy] Martin says Serino told him he would challenge Zimmerman's account. "The detective's words were, 'I want to interview him again to catch him in a lie,'" Martin said.
[highlight]A law-enforcement source, who had been informed of the case by investigators,[/highlight] told Reuters that Serino was eager to bring a charge but encountered resistance from the office of the prosecutor, State Attorney Norman Wolfinger.
"Chris (Serino) [highlight]would have made[/highlight] a recommendation for manslaughter, but Norm Wolfinger's office wanted it to be a slam dunk," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They don't want to hear that this is wrong or that is wrong with the case. That's the way this county does business." Wolfinger on Monday broke a long silence about the case, denying reports he quashed police intentions to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.

"who had been informed of the case by investigators"
I have heard that Lee has given some interviews on background only.

I am sure you are aware that this is in no way a confirmation that an actual affidavit was filed, but only a story that he wanted to file charges.
A story from a third party anonymous source.

Except for a small tid-bit of irrelevant info from the unreliable Tracy Martin, it is basically what was already provided.


Basically the same info.
Deserves the same reply.

Well looky what we have here!

A third party anonymous source.
Well Golly Gee Wilikers that there kinda source is enough to make me want to go right out an buy some Enron stocks if he recommended them.
And jeepers, he says the guy "would have", not that he actually did.

Yep that is a clincher.
It is now confirmed that Serino filed an affidavit that very night.
Not!

Yep! Fabrication.




Are you still trying to deny that a capias existed, that an affidavit showing evidence for arrest would not have been included?
WTFD?
Corey was speaking about two separate situations.


I already posted this twice, it backs the claim that Serino had filed a capias for arrest and gave it to Wolfinger.
It does no such thing.



GZ had a problem with black males in the neighborhood.
Bs.
What do you think you are doing?
Flooding us with false bs in the hopes we will change our minds?
Can it.
 
very similar. also like the duke lacrosse players situation, too
al came out shooting from the hip in all three circumstances, insisting that zimmerman, the duke team, and the person accused by tawana brawley were guilty, even tho the facts would not support that conclusion
but be assured, al and jesse made a bundle in the process. hell, sharpton even has his own tv show to spout his ignorance. if jesse hadn't insisted he was going to cut off Obama's balls, he probably would, too. but that's another thread
Yes, very similar in that Zimmerman claimed he acted in self defense when under attack and the Sanford police chief and DA just accepted his story hooks lines and sinkers and made it looked like Trayvon deserved the death sentence carried out by the vigilante. Which is akin to Crystal Mangum claiming she was raped and the DA Mike Nifong whole hearted accepted her story and made the Duke Lacrosse players looked like a bunch of condemned rapists deserving to be hanged outright. Which is also akin to Tawana Brawley claiming she was raped by some men and the prosecutor believed her enough to put the case before a grand jury.

In all these abovementioned cases, i.e. Zimmerman, Mangum and Brawley, the accusers made up some story and claimed the accused of attacking them, somehow according to your brand of logic, if we cannot prove their story is not true to your absolute certainty, then the accuser is believed and the accused is guilty as claimed without trial and thus deserved whatever punishment meted out to them, including justifiable death as in the case of Trayvon.

Well, at the very least the Duke Lacrosse and the Tawana rape cases were making their way through the justice system and in Tawan's case the grand jury decided against her after hearing the evidence. Unlike Zimmerman's case, they were not decided solely by the whims of a police chief or a DA acting as the sole judge and jury as in this Trayvon case, which would have been swept under the rug if not for the public outcry.
 
Yes, very similar in that Zimmerman claimed he acted in self defense when under attack and the Sanford police chief and DA just accepted his story hooks lines and sinkers and made it looked like Trayvon deserved the death sentence carried out by the vigilante. Which is akin to Crystal Mangum claiming she was raped and the DA Mike Nifong whole hearted accepted her story and made the Duke Lacrosse players looked like a bunch of condemned rapists deserving to be hanged outright. Which is also akin to Tawana Brawley claiming she was raped by some men and the prosecutor believed her enough to put the case before a grand jury.

In all these abovementioned cases, i.e. Zimmerman, Mangum and Brawley, the accusers made up some story and claimed the accused of attacking them, somehow according to your brand of logic, if we cannot prove their story is not true to your absolute certainty, then the accuser is believed and the accused is guilty as claimed without trial and thus deserved whatever punishment meted out to them, including justifiable death as in the case of Trayvon.

Well, at the very least the Duke Lacrosse and the Tawana rape cases were making their way through the justice system and in Tawan's case the grand jury decided against her after hearing the evidence. Unlike Zimmerman's case, they were not decided solely by the whims of a police chief or a DA acting as the sole judge and jury as in this Trayvon case, which would have been swept under the rug if not for the public outcry.

Great post...............
 
I am sure you are aware that this is in no way a confirmation that an actual affidavit was filed, but only a story that he wanted to file charges.
When Serino filed a capias to Wolfinger, it would have included an affidavit of evidence against Zim...that is how it works...he was the lead investigator, the capias was his.

WTFD?Corey was speaking about two separate situations.It does no such thing.
You are contradicting yourself, first you say there are 2 different "situations" (I guess you are saying that the first submission of the capias and some other imagined submission (that you won't document) are the "situations") but then you deny that the first submission even happened.

Of course, none of your denials even touches the fact that Serino did file a capias to Wolfinger and that it would have included the affidavit for charges.
 
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Well, at the very least the Duke Lacrosse and the Tawana rape cases were making their way through the justice system and in Tawan's case the grand jury decided against her after hearing the evidence. Unlike Zimmerman's case, they were not decided solely by the whims of a police chief or a DA acting as the sole judge and jury as in this Trayvon case, which would have been swept under the rug if not for the public outcry.

Public outcry? Where is, the public outcry when dark skin is shooting at dark skin? No...... As long as it is dark on dark.... it is no problemo in the media
 
Public outcry? Where is, the public outcry when dark skin is shooting at dark skin? No...... As long as it is dark on dark.... it is no problemo in the media
Cite me a case where dark skin is shooting at dark skin or whatever skin medley involved in which the police or the DA decided there is no case and let the pepetrator walks even though the victim is unarmed walking down the street.

This whole case is all about the injustice done by the police chief and the DA to sweep this case clean under the rug without further investigation and without letting the case moved through the proper justice system when an unarmed teenager is killed by an armed adult. You are not alone. Even the supposedly sharp minded talk radio hosts and tv news pundits get this wrong miserably.
 
Cite me a case where dark skin is shooting at dark skin or whatever skin medley involved in which the police or the DA decided there is no case and let the pepetrator walks even though the victim is unarmed walking down the street.

After living close to Balitmore and DC for 20 plus years, and seeing how gang wars, drug deals, etc. get a mere mention on the local news and then off to obscurity for them, then let's turn to this case.

We had the NYtimes for God's sake, trying to term Zim as a "white hispanic"... What the hell is that? Then throw into the mix race hustlers like Sharpton, Jackson, NBPP all out to stir up the nation in 'hoodie marches' and foment racial division and tension. Where are these poverty pimps, and race baiters when the family in Baltimore was burned in their house for "snitching"? Where is CNN, and MSNBC when 98% of black homicide is perpetrated by other blacks?

Earlier you wanted to bring in Duke, and Twana Brawley in the mix as examples of Zim trying to shirk responsibility of the events of that evening, however, what you seemingly miss here is that both of those cases are examples of the Media, and race baiters getting it totally wrong, dead wrong! And in Sharpton's case, he should be in an orange damned jumpsuit for the Brawley crap, that, and Freddies Fashion Mart where he knowingly strove to incite racial violence. And in the Duke case, do you know where that young woman is today? IN JAIL! Where is Jackson with her collage education he said he would pay for? That disappeared with the camera's.

This whole case is all about the injustice done by the police chief and the DA to sweep this case clean under the rug without further investigation and without letting the case moved through the proper justice system when an unarmed teenager is killed by an armed adult. You are not alone. Even the supposedly sharp minded talk radio hosts and tv news pundits get this wrong miserably.

This remains to be seen with facts in court. NOT on a message board where people are venting their preconceived notions, and relating their own bias into the story.

j-mac
 
I already posted this twice, it backs the claim that Serino had filed a capias for arrest and gave it to Wolfinger.
Is it clear that the affidavit Serino filed was an additional capias and not some other paperwork?
 
Ok.



I am sure you are aware that this is in no way a confirmation that an actual affidavit was filed, but only a story that he wanted to file charges.
A story from a third party anonymous source.

Except for a small tid-bit of irrelevant info from the unreliable Tracy Martin, it is basically what was already provided.


Basically the same info.
Deserves the same reply.
Well looky what we have here!

A third party anonymous source.
Well Golly Gee Wilikers that there kinda source is enough to make me want to go right out an buy some Enron stocks if he recommended them.
And jeepers, he says the guy "would have", not that he actually did.

Yep that is a clincher.
It is now confirmed that Serino filed an affidavit that very night.
Not!

Yep! Fabrication.
I didn't have time to provide a link. But I was talking abuot where we see what it is that Wolfinger is actually objecting to.

in re
War of words continues in Trayvon Martin case - CNN.com


On Tuesday, Martin family attorney Jasmine Rand insisted again that ... State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, met with the ... Sanford police chief on the night of the killing and overruled a police detective urging that Zimmerman be arrested.




Here is Wolfinger's actual statement.
Norm Wolfinger statement on letter | www.wftv.com

State Attorney Norm Wolfinger Statement on Letter to Department of Justice​
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE--April 2, 2011​
.
I am outraged by the outright lies contained in the letter by Benjamin Crump to Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin dated April 2, 2012. I encourage the Justice Department to investigate and document that no such meeting or communication occurred. I have been encouraging those spreading the irresponsible rhetoric to stop and allow State Attorney Angela Corey to complete her work. Another falsehood distributed to the media does nothing to forward that process.​



Iirc, it was some other attorneys who went, not Wolfinger as Crump's letter is said to have said. Wolfinger had no meeting or communication.

Norm Wolfinger is NOT responding to the article of the week before. He is quite explicitly referring to "the letter by Benjamin Crump to Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin dated April 2, 2012 ".

Crump's letter specifically states that Wolfinger himself, not his office, (as reported by ABC and Reuters), but the man himself came out and had a meeting or communication with the PD.
In reality, it was someone else in Wolfinger's office, (as reported by ABC and Reuters), not Wolfinger himself as Crump and subsequently Rand said it was.
Wolfinger is making it clear that he had nothing to do with it.

Wolfinger had no such meeting or communication as was reported in the letter by Benjamin Crump to Deputy Assistant Attorney General Roy Austin dated April 2, 2012.


here's crump's letter that stirred the fuss btw

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martin-trayvon-ltr-to-roy-austin-usdoj.pdf
 
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After living close to Balitmore and DC for 20 plus years, and seeing how gang wars, drug deals, etc. get a mere mention on the local news and then off to obscurity for them, then let's turn to this case.

We had the NYtimes for God's sake, trying to term Zim as a "white hispanic"... What the hell is that? Then throw into the mix race hustlers like Sharpton, Jackson, NBPP all out to stir up the nation in 'hoodie marches' and foment racial division and tension. Where are these poverty pimps, and race baiters when the family in Baltimore was burned in their house for "snitching"? Where is CNN, and MSNBC when 98% of black homicide is perpetrated by other blacks?

Earlier you wanted to bring in Duke, and Twana Brawley in the mix as examples of Zim trying to shirk responsibility of the events of that evening, however, what you seemingly miss here is that both of those cases are examples of the Media, and race baiters getting it totally wrong, dead wrong! And in Sharpton's case, he should be in an orange damned jumpsuit for the Brawley crap, that, and Freddies Fashion Mart where he knowingly strove to incite racial violence. And in the Duke case, do you know where that young woman is today? IN JAIL! Where is Jackson with her collage education he said he would pay for? That disappeared with the camera's.
Which gang wars and drug deals did the police or DA there decided upon themselves to let the gangsters and drug dealers just walk free without prosecution because the police chief and DA completely believed their story without need of further investigation?

With regards to your complaint about "the family in Baltimore was burned in their house for 'snitching'", are you trying to tell me that the police chief or DA in that case had also accepted the perpertrator's story that he acted in self-defense and therefore is justifiable in burning the house with the "snitches" in it and thus allowed to walk free without having to face justice simply because the police chief or DA wholehearted bought his story?

Why are you insisting to be so obtuse about the actual matter of controversy, which is police/DA injustice in this case, even when I had just pointed it out to you?

I know the woman who made up the whole story about rape by the Duke Lacrosse players is now in jail just as Zimmerman is now in jail. So, what's your point?

Al Sharpton and other bad elements won't be coming out of the woodwork and there won't be any public outcry if the previous Sanford police chief and DA had diligently did their duty and carry out their responsibilty properly in the first place instead of hastily and eagerly trying to sweep the case clean under the rug to let the killer go free. If the previous DA had done what this special prosecutor did, i.e. did the investigation and file charges before a judge, then we won't be hearing any of this from the media nor from the bad elements you're crying about.

BTW, please get your fact straight. I wasn't the one bringing in Duke, and Twana Brawley in the mix. So, don't start shooting your mouth and point your finger before reading the thread.


This remains to be seen with facts in court. NOT on a message board where people are venting their preconceived notions, and relating their own bias into the story.

j-mac
Fortunately with the public outcry this case was prevented from sweeping under the rug by the police chief and the DA. I agree this case should be tried in court (that was the whole point of the public outcry) and not on message board or public media. So, why don't you go tell your buddies about that which I have been saying all along?
 
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Which gang wars and drug deals did the police or DA there decided upon themselves to let the gangsters and drug dealers just walk free without prosecution because the police chief and DA completely believed their story without need of further investigation?


Happens every day in a big city...Hell, research Nashville, I am sure you can see it there as well.

With regards to your complaint about "the family in Baltimore was burned in their house for 'snitching'", are you trying to tell me that the police chief or DA in that case had also accepted the perpertrator's story that he acted in self-defense and therefore is justifiable in burning the house with the "snitches" in it and thus allowed to walk free without having to face justice simply because the police chief or DA wholehearted bought his story?

No, but at the time their was only lip service played to local media about this incident, with no one caught for the crime, then nothing. Where is the mega phones for them?

Why are you insisting to be so obtuse about the actual matter of controversy, which is police/DA injustice in this case, even when I had just pointed it out to you?

Hey, wait just a gall darn minute here? I didn't call you any names, but I disagree with your blind charge of corruption, and I am the one being stupid? Check yourself man.


I know the woman who made up the whole story about rape by the Duke Lacrosse players is now in jail just as Zimmerman is now in jail. So, what's your point?


Well, I don't know if you were, or were not pulled in by the media lies at the time it was going on, but I wasn't....unfortunately in this case you have allowed yourself to be.

Al Sharpton and other bad elements won't be coming out of the woodwork and ther won't be any public outcry if the previous Sanford police chief and DA had diligently did their duty and carry out their responsibilty properly in the first place instead of hastily and eagerly trying to sweep the case clean under the rug to let the killer go free. If the previous DA had did what this special prosecutor had done, i.e. did the investigation and file charges before a judge, we won't be hearing any of this from the media nor from the bad elements you're crying about.


Crying about? heh, heh...Yeah right. I have had it up to my finely chiseled ass with all this misrepresentation. When this story was first coming to light, I, at first glance started out with being in full support, and full throated with the position you are now taking, that is UNTIL, I started to read articles, and think logically, and you know what?? To be Sooooooo down one way or the other at this moment is what is truly stupid.

BTW, please get your fact straight. I wasn't the one bringing in Duke, and Twana Brawley in the mix. So, don't start shooting your mouth and point your finger before reading the thread.

So this isn't you?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...rman-2nd-degree-murder-62.html#post1060405374

Hmmm. Seems you can't even remember what you post from page to page, so I don't think I'll be taking your call to me to "get my facts straight" very seriously....sorry.

Fortunately with the public outcry this case was prevented from sweeping under the rug by the police chief and the DA. I agree this case should be tried in court (that was the whole point of the public outcry) and not on message board or public media. So, why don't you go tell your buddies about that which I have been saying all along?

My buddies? like who? Oh, and BTW, this "public outcry" resulted in the NBPP placing a bounty "dead or alive" on Zim's head to be tried in "street court"...Is that the noble public outcry you admire so? Where is your call to prosecute those jack asses?

j-mac
 
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