Your Job vs. Your Morals and Values

[Tigger]

This came up in another thread this morning and rather than derail that thread, it seemed best to start a new one....

About six years ago I encountered a situation at work that placed my morals and values in direct opposition to my job. I work for an electric utility company, designing new underground electical services. As I opened the job file, I noticed that the customer this work was for happened to be a well-known organization that is highly involved in the abortion debate. This was right at the end of a workday, so I closed the file and went home for the evening to consider my next step. The following morning I walked into my boss's office with the file in my hand and politely asked to have the project assigned to the other person in my department. When asked why, I responded that I had significant moral and ethic issues doing work to support the function of the organization that the project was for. I also informed my boss that if this work could not be re-assigned that I would have to regrettably hand in my resignation, as I could not in good conscience do the work. He took the project folder and told me he's look into it. About two hours later he came to me and gave me three other projects that he'd taken from the other member of the department to make room in his schedule to take the job I didn't want.

Has anyone else ever had this sort of moral dillema at work in the past? How do you deal with it? Are you willing to violate your own morals and values in order to get ahead, or even just get by in the workplace? How far would you go?

I know that in my current work environment this situation would be even worse. Now that we're Union, we don't have the ability to re-shuffle work like we used to. I've told my boss and the Union leadership that if something like that comes up again, and some accomidation cannot be made, I will have to resign and walk out.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I don't get paid for my moral values, so unless it was something I found very unethical, I wouldn't really care. But in my line of work, that's not really an issue I face.

 

[Tigger]

I don't get paid for my moral values, so unless it was something I found very unethical, I wouldn't really care.

I don't get paid for my values either. However, I also don't get paid anywhere near enough to even consider violating those values; if any such amount even exists to begin with. It confuses people around my job quite a bit when I turn down opportunities to do Overtime for philosophical reasons.

 

[shlunka]

I wonder if prostitutes have this issue...

 

[MaggieD]

This came up in another thread this morning and rather than derail that thread, it seemed best to start a new one....

About six years ago I encountered a situation at work that placed my morals and values in direct opposition to my job. I work for an electric utility company, designing new underground electical services. As I opened the job file, I noticed that the customer this work was for happened to be a well-known organization that is highly involved in the abortion debate. This was right at the end of a workday, so I closed the file and went home for the evening to consider my next step. The following morning I walked into my boss's office with the file in my hand and politely asked to have the project assigned to the other person in my department. When asked why, I responded that I had significant moral and ethic issues doing work to support the function of the organization that the project was for. I also informed my boss that if this work could not be re-assigned that I would have to regrettably hand in my resignation, as I could not in good conscience do the work. He took the project folder and told me he's look into it. About two hours later he came to me and gave me three other projects that he'd taken from the other member of the department to make room in his schedule to take the job I didn't want.

Has anyone else ever had this sort of moral dillema at work in the past? How do you deal with it? Are you willing to violate your own morals and values in order to get ahead, or even just get by in the workplace? How far would you go?

I know that in my current work environment this situation would be even worse. Now that we're Union, we don't have the ability to re-shuffle work like we used to. I've told my boss and the Union leadership that if something like that comes up again, and some accomidation cannot be made, I will have to resign and walk out.

I cannot think of anything legal that I would have a moral dilemma about in my job, including and almost especially, a social issue. I think you were fortunate your request was met with action. *shrug* To each their own.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I don't get paid for my values either. However, I also don't get paid anywhere near enough to even consider violating those values; if any such amount even exists to begin with. It confuses people around my job quite a bit when I turn down opportunities to do Overtime for philosophical reasons.

There is a fine line between sticking to your principles and being a stubborn idiot (Nothing personal intended). I have my own views on things, but I don't hold them as the final say on a matter. Most likely a fair portion of what I believe will never change, but I'm not going to hold on to every shred just for the sake of it.

Compromise is an incredible thing.

 

[Fisher]

Sure, but I am self-employed so I can cherry pick at will without consequence.

 

[rocket88]

This came up in another thread this morning and rather than derail that thread, it seemed best to start a new one....

About six years ago I encountered a situation at work that placed my morals and values in direct opposition to my job. I work for an electric utility company, designing new underground electical services. As I opened the job file, I noticed that the customer this work was for happened to be a well-known organization that is highly involved in the abortion debate. This was right at the end of a workday, so I closed the file and went home for the evening to consider my next step. The following morning I walked into my boss's office with the file in my hand and politely asked to have the project assigned to the other person in my department. When asked why, I responded that I had significant moral and ethic issues doing work to support the function of the organization that the project was for. I also informed my boss that if this work could not be re-assigned that I would have to regrettably hand in my resignation, as I could not in good conscience do the work. He took the project folder and told me he's look into it. About two hours later he came to me and gave me three other projects that he'd taken from the other member of the department to make room in his schedule to take the job I didn't want.

Has anyone else ever had this sort of moral dillema at work in the past? How do you deal with it? Are you willing to violate your own morals and values in order to get ahead, or even just get by in the workplace? How far would you go?

I know that in my current work environment this situation would be even worse. Now that we're Union, we don't have the ability to re-shuffle work like we used to. I've told my boss and the Union leadership that if something like that comes up again, and some accomidation cannot be made, I will have to resign and walk out.

I did a similar. Worked for a copy shop and they wanted me to print anti-union stuff. My boss ended up doing it because I wouldn't.

Our company had a clause in the employee handbook that you could personally refuse something that you found offensive, so I was on solid ground.

 

[justabubba]

This came up in another thread this morning and rather than derail that thread, it seemed best to start a new one....

About six years ago I encountered a situation at work that placed my morals and values in direct opposition to my job. I work for an electric utility company, designing new underground electical services. As I opened the job file, I noticed that the customer this work was for happened to be a well-known organization that is highly involved in the abortion debate. This was right at the end of a workday, so I closed the file and went home for the evening to consider my next step. The following morning I walked into my boss's office with the file in my hand and politely asked to have the project assigned to the other person in my department. When asked why, I responded that I had significant moral and ethic issues doing work to support the function of the organization that the project was for. I also informed my boss that if this work could not be re-assigned that I would have to regrettably hand in my resignation, as I could not in good conscience do the work. He took the project folder and told me he's look into it. About two hours later he came to me and gave me three other projects that he'd taken from the other member of the department to make room in his schedule to take the job I didn't want.

Has anyone else ever had this sort of moral dillema at work in the past? How do you deal with it? Are you willing to violate your own morals and values in order to get ahead, or even just get by in the workplace? How far would you go?

I know that in my current work environment this situation would be even worse. Now that we're Union, we don't have the ability to re-shuffle work like we used to. I've told my boss and the Union leadership that if something like that comes up again, and some accomidation cannot be made, I will have to resign and walk out.

yes, i have encountered one such incident
my director had just promoted me to a management position and directed me to take actions against the career interests of the person whose previous job position i then occupied
such actions were prohibited personnel practices, illegal under federal law

i refused to engage in the prohibited personnel actions (undermining the former manager's opportunity to land another management position elsewhere in the organization)
when the director learned that i had balked at his request i became his new target
for ten years we were engaged in litigation to determine which of us would lose their job
it was close, but i eventually prevailed
and a sorry bastard was terminated from the federal work force - to soon wreak similar havoc in the private sector

and i offer two lessons learned from that experience
1. with only rare exceptions, change happens from within an organization. if you leave, you are no longer in a position to try to effect change in the direction you believe is needed [kudos to my Dad for explaining this hard won lesson to me as i was about to join the SDS - and likely ruin my life]
2. always be professional. no exceptions. you are the employee - not the owner - so, your job is to do your job as directed by the party that pays you. if he tells you to stack greasy BBs you spend your time trying. perform that task. if you receive an assignment, perform it to the best of your ability no matter what. that is being a professional
doctors have to treat the dregs of society
lawyers must represent those they believe to be guilty
and you have to facilitate the power supply for an abortion clinic - IF you choose to be a professional

 

[X Factor]

Being a professional sometimes means putting personal feelings aside.

 

[Sarcogito]

I'm a liberal progressive...in the Army.

 

[Tigger]

I cannot think of anything legal that I would have a moral dilemma about in my job, including and almost especially, a social issue. I think you were fortunate your request was met with action. *shrug* To each their own.

I was as polite as possible, Maggie. I made a request, not a demand. If they'd said "No", I would have moved on. It's that simple.

There is a fine line between sticking to your principles and being a stubborn idiot (Nothing personal intended). I have my own views on things, but I don't hold them as the final say on a matter. Most likely a fair portion of what I believe will never change, but I'm not going to hold on to every shred just for the sake of it.

Compromise is an incredible thing.

I do hold my own views as the final say on any matter in my own life. I don't expect other people to agree with me, but I am not about to compromise my values for anyone or anything. Compromise means you don't really believe in something.

Our company had a clause in the employee handbook that you could personally refuse something that you found offensive, so I was on solid ground.

We had/have no such protection so it was a little bit of a risky undertaking.

and i offer two lessons learned from that experience
1. with only rare exceptions, change happens from within an organization. if you leave, you are no longer in a position to try to effect change in the direction you believe is needed [kudos to my Dad for explaining this hard won lesson to me as i was about to join the SDS - and likely ruin my life]
2. always be professional. no exceptions. you are the employee - not the owner - so, your job is to do your job as directed by the party that pays you. if he tells you to stack greasy BBs you spend your time trying. perform that task. if you receive an assignment, perform it to the best of your ability no matter what. that is being a professional
doctors have to treat the dregs of society
lawyers must represent those they believe to be guilty
and you have to facilitate the power supply for an abortion clinic - IF you choose to be a professional

1. This company is a corporate giant. It does not change from the bottom. It changes from the boardroom, nowhere else.

2. The company does not own me. I work here because I get paid. If I don't work here, I'd work somewhere else. My job has never been as important to me as my morals/values. The moment I consider violating those moral for any person, job, company, etc... it's time to check out on that person, job or company and possibly on life itself.

Being a professional sometimes means putting personal feelings aside.

Feelings, yes. Morals & Values, No.

 

[X Factor]

I was as polite as possible, Maggie. I made a request, not a demand. If they'd said "No", I would have moved on. It's that simple.



I do hold my own views as the final say on any matter in my own life. I don't expect other people to agree with me, but I am not about to compromise my values for anyone or anything. Compromise means you don't really believe in something.



We had/have no such protection so it was a little bit of a risky undertaking.



1. This company is a corporate giant. It does not change from the bottom. It changes from the boardroom, nowhere else.

2. The company does not own me. I work here because I get paid. If I don't work here, I'd work somewhere else. My job has never been as important to me as my morals/values. The moment I consider violating those moral for any person, job, company, etc... it's time to check out on that person, job or company and possibly on life itself.



Feelings, yes. Morals & Values, No.

All very high sounding, Tigger, but you do realize that by taking on those three other projects that freed up your supervisor to handle the job you wouldn't do, you ended up assisting and facilitating it anyway.

 

[Tigger]

All very high sounding, Tigger, but you do realize that by taking on those three other projects that freed up your supervisor to handle the job you wouldn't do, you ended up assisting and facilitating it anyway.

The work was from the other Designer. Our Supervisor didn't do, and could not have done, the work himself.

We are a utility company. There was/is no way to stop the project from being done. I just didn't want the stain of doing it on my soul. That's all I was concerned with.

 

[justabubba]

I was as polite as possible, Maggie. I made a request, not a demand. If they'd said "No", I would have moved on. It's that simple.



I do hold my own views as the final say on any matter in my own life. I don't expect other people to agree with me, but I am not about to compromise my values for anyone or anything. Compromise means you don't really believe in something.



We had/have no such protection so it was a little bit of a risky undertaking.



1. This company is a corporate giant. It does not change from the bottom. It changes from the boardroom, nowhere else.

wrong
look at Bradley Manning and how the actions he took, as a private in the military, to expose much of the propaganda we were hearing about the wars
now, he is paying a massive price for his principled actions, but one lone private in the DoD system effected massive change
and if he had been on the outside, he would not have had the opportunity to expose the wrongs as he did

another point. you now have a union. you have an opportunity to become active in that union and move your company in a positive direction. doing so within my own organization has been one of my proudest achievements. walking away does not enable you to make such changes

2. The company does not own me. I work here because I get paid. If I don't work here, I'd work somewhere else. My job has never been as important to me as my morals/values. The moment I consider violating those moral for any person, job, company, etc... it's time to check out on that person, job or company and possibly on life itself.

to again cite my Dad's admonitions, "that is the coward's way out"

Feelings, yes. Morals & Values, No.

no one should be compelled to act against the law or against their moral convictions
easier to defend your stance when the law is with you than when your own sense of morality is way outside the mainstream

 

[sangha]

I've worked for banks.

Need I say more?

 

[X Factor]

The work was from the other Designer. Our Supervisor didn't do, and could not have done, the work himself.

We are a utility company. There was/is no way to stop the project from being done. I just didn't want the stain of doing it on my soul. That's all I was concerned with.

I see, so you have these incredible morals but only up to a point.

 

[justabubba]

I see, so you have these incredible morals but only up to a point.

actually, he has indicated his stand is so strong he would be willing to walk away from a position in which he is vested, to maintain his moral integrity
if that is a "point", it appears to be a very elevated one

 

[Helix]

The only ethical dilemma I've encountered at work involves research animals. I flat out will not kill or do tests on live animals. I would rather not work than do that. My boss knows this, and has never asked me to.

I understand the need for animal research, but I can't be the one doing it. I prefer tissue culture.

 

[Tigger]

look at Bradley Manning and how the actions he took, as a private in the military, to expose much of the propaganda we were hearing about the warsnow, he is paying a massive price for his principled actions, but one lone private in the DoD system effected massive change
and if he had been on the outside, he would not have had the opportunity to expose the wrongs as he did

The differences in the systems we're talking about are massive. I work in a regulated industry. The only people our management listens to are the DPU and the Shareholders. We are required, by law, to provide service to anyone who requests it. There is nothing I could have done to stop the project from going forward, only washing my hands of it was an available option.

another point. you now have a union. you have an opportunity to become active in that union and move your company in a positive direction. doing so within my own organization has been one of my proudest achievements. walking away does not enable you to make such changes

I am a Union Steward. I also know that there is only so much that can be done. Especially because we are a regulated industry.

to again cite my Dad's admonitions, "that is the coward's way out"

Your father and I will have to disagree. Death before dishonor.

no one should be compelled to act against the law or against their moral convictions. easier to defend your stance when the law is with you than when your own sense of morality is way outside the mainstream

That's one of the potential downsides to looking at the world through a different set of glasses than everyone else. It comes with the territory.

I see, so you have these incredible morals but only up to a point.

Nope. However, my morals are my own. I cannot force them on you or anyone else, nevermind the 3rd largest Gas/Electric utility company in the United States. What I can do is to protect my own conscience and morality.

 

[afr0byte]

I can actually understand where you're coming from on this Tigger. I homebrew my own beer, and happen to be quite good at it (or so people tell me), and have thought about opening a pizzaria + brewpub in the future (though probably not anytime soon). The only problem is that I would, as a vegan, prefer not to serve food that isn't vegan. Yet, clearly I'd make more money/be more likely to stay in business if I served non-vegan pizzas in addition to vegan pizzas.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

The only ethical dilemma I've encountered at work involves research animals. I flat out will not kill or do tests on live animals. I would rather not work than do that. My boss knows this, and has never asked me to.

I understand the need for animal research, but I can't be the one doing it. I prefer tissue culture.

See, I'm the opposite. Not that I enjoy killing the animals, per se, but I'd much rather do live experiments than almost any sort of culturing.

Then again, I'm also against regulations on animal research, too. :shrug:

 

[Goshin]

Yes. I've refused to work on Sunday for non-emergency reasons, and I once had to give up a management position because I refused to lie and falsify reports as my superior required.

 

[Cephus]

You have a choice. Either do the job for which you were hired or go find another job. I really have no respect for people who think they get to tell their employers what work they will and will not do. Your personal ideals or values really have nothing whatsoever to do with your employer and making their lives difficult because you're emotionally invested in a belief probably doesn't make them think of you as a very good employee.

Suck it up, do your job and stop pretending that your personal feelings matter to anyone but you.

 

[afr0byte]

You have a choice. Either do the job for which you were hired or go find another job. I really have no respect for people who think they get to tell their employers what work they will and will not do. Your personal ideals or values really have nothing whatsoever to do with your employer and making their lives difficult because you're emotionally invested in a belief probably doesn't make them think of you as a very good employee.

Suck it up, do your job and stop pretending that your personal feelings matter to anyone but you.

That's why the OP asked if anyone else had, personally, had the issue. I don't believe anyone was saying that the employer should/would necessarily care about your beliefs.