Would You Resist Federal Confiscation?

molten_dragon · Mar 14, 2010

Goshin said:
I would view it much the same way, as I would view the removal of the 1st Amendment: as a tyrannical government acting to suppress resistance. I doubt they would get popular support for such a thing; if they claimed to have it, I would suspect fraud. Even if I knew they had majority support for it, some rights are too fundamental to surrender to anyone for any reason.

In my view the right to bear arms is an extension of the right to life and liberty, because the right to life and liberty implies a right to defend same. I believe it is properly a natural right of all persons that ought never to be infringed upon.

One of the things to consider is this: if they are taking away something as fundamental as the 2A, what are they planning to take away next, that they need to populace to be disarmed to pull off??

Also consider though, it takes 2/3 of both houses of congress to even suggest an amendment to the constitution, and 3/4 of the state legislatures to actually ratify it. If the constitution were amended to remove the 2nd amendment, it would mean that popular support was incredibly high for doing so. Would you still consider it right to resist something that so much of the country wanted to happen?

Slartibartfast · Mar 14, 2010

Dezaad said:
I am not certain how I feel about this. I am not sure a society has the "right" to take away the right of its people to be capable of overthrowing their government. I have always viewed true rights to be things that legal documents (like constitutions) simply recognize, not make.

I would certianly resist if, say, society decided to rescind the right to freedom of speech.

What about religion? Is it EVER the prerogative of a society to (attempt to) force people to practice a specific religion? I know that if I saw a democratic society in the world today that tried to infringe on this right of its people, I would consider the right of the minority of people to be above the will of any supermajority of that society.

And so on.

Truth be told, the second amendment is something that I do not utilize, so I tend not to personally value it at much. I have no plans to own a gun, so my life would be the same whether or not that right was in the constitution.

If they messed with my right to speech or religion, I would be sorely pissed off.

samsmart · Mar 14, 2010

Goshin said:
I would view it much the same way, as I would view the removal of the 1st Amendment: as a tyrannical government acting to suppress resistance. I doubt they would get popular support for such a thing; if they claimed to have it, I would suspect fraud. Even if I knew they had majority support for it, some rights are too fundamental to surrender to anyone for any reason.

In my view the right to bear arms is an extension of the right to life and liberty, because the right to life and liberty implies a right to defend same. I believe it is properly a natural right of all persons that ought never to be infringed upon.

One of the things to consider is this: if they are taking away something as fundamental as the 2A, what are they planning to take away next, that they need to populace to be disarmed to pull off??

Here's the issue with comparing the First Amendment with the Second Amendment.

Many gun rights advocates claim that the Second Amendment is an absolute right to gun ownership. That is that gun ownership cannot be regulated or prevented in any way. Many claim such activists claim that Americans should be able to own any kind of firearm they want, including military firearms.

However, many 2A activists are conservatives, and conservatives, especially the Religious Right, like to restrict Free Speech guaranteed by the Constitution. They do this mostly through obscenity laws.

So if gun rights are an absolute right, then free speech should be an absolute right. If assault rifles can be purchased without regulation, then so can pornography.

That's the slippery slope gun rights' activists get into.

However, if we can have local obscenity laws prohibiting certain kinds of speech, then we can have local gun laws that prohibit certain kinds of firearms. One instance of this is the Chicago and D.C. handgun bans. (I'm not getting into an argument over whether or not a handgun ban in those cities are effective, as that's not the point; I'm arguing over whether or not local governments have the power to prohibit certain kinds of firearms).

So, to put the issue another way, my question is if those who believe that firearm ownership is an absolute right that extends to military weapons and assault rifles also resist things such as the FCC charging punitive fees against radio and television stations that air the Seven Dirty Words where children can hear just as ardently?

misterman · Mar 14, 2010

Ethereal said:
If the Federal government started confiscating weapons en masse, would you violently resist them?

I say absolutely. I would rather die than let that happen.

If green elephants ever try to take my laptop to use it to build a machine to take over the planet, I'll resist that too.

Apocalypse · Mar 14, 2010

misterman said:
If green elephants ever try to take my laptop to use it to build a machine to take over the planet, I'll resist that too.

Good luck with resisting an elephant.

misterman · Mar 14, 2010

Partisan said:
You should probably change your 'lean' to 'Liberal'.....

Have you read the entire letter in which Jefferson wrote his "Tree of Liberty" quote?

He wasn't advocating armed rebellion.

Ethereal · Mar 14, 2010

Damn, here come the usual suspects to troll the thread and contribute nothing substantive. I'm totally surprised...

Cephus · Mar 14, 2010

Since the question was about resisting and I have no weapons to confiscate, I wouldn't. That doesn't mean I wouldn't oppose the move to do so, but that's not what the poll was about.

Partisan · Mar 14, 2010

molten_dragon said:
Also consider though, it takes 2/3 of both houses of congress to even suggest an amendment to the constitution, and 3/4 of the state legislatures to actually ratify it. If the constitution were amended to remove the 2nd amendment, it would mean that popular support was incredibly high for doing so. Would you still consider it right to resist something that so much of the country wanted to happen?

Why, yes I would.....:2wave:

EnigmaO01 · Mar 14, 2010

I voted yes but but in actuality there are smarter ways to react to a mass confiscation. I would do what they did in Australia. From what I have read many folks when they knew it was coming down the pike buried their guns in sealed PVC tubes.

Unfortunately we can talk all we want about resisting something like this, but I have known people that have tried to resist the feds (and didn't do anything wrong but were railroaded), and your life becomes a living hell especially when they come to confiscate everything you've worked all you life for.) If anyone is interested I have a true story that will knock your socks off and has totally blew away any respect I have for the government. In fact I'm beginning to think we don't have a smidgen of the freedom think we have, and our government has a lot of corrupt above the law bullies. Not just a few here and there. A lot!

Redress · Mar 14, 2010

Ethereal said:
Damn, here come the usual suspects to troll the thread and contribute nothing substantive. I'm totally surprised...

Hey now, my question was intended to be respectful...

Not trolling, this time.

Ethereal · Mar 14, 2010

Redress said:
Hey now, my question was intended to be respectful...

Not trolling, this time.

I wasn't talking about you, Redress; your question was relevant and interesting. I'll have to answer it later, though. I have to start studying for finals...

ADK_Forever · Mar 14, 2010

NoJingoLingo said:
Would you make up an unrealistic situation just so you can rant about something that would never happen? Apparently so.

I own guns and I've never had any fear of the government taking it. Why do some people have this fear? Because of a ban in some city? Just like the repubs like you drone on about unemployment... Hey, you can always move. :2wave:

It's especially funny to hear ignorant ****s down south here running out to stock up on guns and ammo. :rofl what a bunch of maroons... A black man got elected, quick, get your guns!!!

Great summation! This is as ridiculous a hypothetical as if some rightee said, "If your governor, or mayor, came to your house saying he had the right to take your wife for a night or take your first born would you object?

Dumb.

LaMidRighter · Mar 14, 2010

Redress said:
Side topic, feel free to yell at me and I will make a new thread for this, but...

Explain this attitude to me. A gun is a tool, I read this as similar to "I would rather die than let some one take my screwdriver". It just makes no sense.

Further, why is this the right people say this about. You don't ever hear "I would rather die than give up my right to peaceably assemble" or "I would rather die than give up my right to trial by an impartial jury by the sate".

Why do people have such a strong reaction about this one right?

Simple Redress, the people who want to take our second amendment rights away are dishonest, they slander gun owners, misrepresent statistics, use overly emotional rhetoric, and other devious methods all in the name of trying to surrender my right because they disagree with it. The reason you don't hear as much flap about the first amendment from those who argue the second is because that fight is keeping us very busy right now and the first is not under as heavy an assault. Trust me, once the 2A battle is won there are others in our sights, but, little bites at a time.

Redress · Mar 14, 2010

LaMidRighter said:
Simple Redress, the people who want to take our second amendment rights away are dishonest, they slander gun owners, misrepresent statistics, use overly emotional rhetoric, and other devious methods all in the name of trying to surrender my right because they disagree with it. The reason you don't hear as much flap about the first amendment from those who argue the second is because that fight is keeping us very busy right now and the first is not under as heavy an assault. Trust me, once the 2A battle is won there are others in our sights, but, little bites at a time.

I think those tactics are common in any political fight. It's sad, but there it is. Further, I disagree that the other amendments in the bill of rights are not under some attack at the very least.

I also think where you vehement second amendment people go wrong is that stats are irrelevant. The second amendment is there, end argument.

jamesrage · Mar 14, 2010

Redress said:
I think those tactics are common in any political fight. It's sad, but there it is. Further, I disagree that the other amendments in the bill of rights are not under some attack at the very least.

I also think where you vehement second amendment people go wrong is that stats are irrelevant. The second amendment is there, end argument.

If only anti-2nd amendment states like New York, California, Illinious and other liberal states saw it that way.

Harry Guerrilla · Mar 14, 2010

samsmart said:
Would I resist violently? No, I wouldn't.

Would I resist passively? Yes, absolutely.

There's a lot of factors at play here. For example, how did the federal ban come about? Was it through our lawmakers? Or was it through popular initiative? Are they banning all firearms? Or only particular types? Those are very important questions to ask in such a scenario, as I favor bans on assault rifles.

However it goes, I would not act violently against whoever does the actual confiscating of weapons. Most likely, it will be some kind of law enforcement group. Those law officers would just be doing their jobs. Why would I act out violently at those who are just doing their jobs according to the law when it is the lawmakers who are responsible?

Instead, I'd try to hide my weapons, if I felt I really needed them. I don't go hunting and I don't shoot guns, but I do have them available to me. I live in a rural area, and I'd rather keep them available to me, just in case. I would try to keep them hidden and hope that law enforcement doesn't find them. If they do, however, I wouldn't shoot at them. I would just let them take the weapons and try to find some more to replace them.

LEO's who comply with such a law or confiscation order are just as culpable as the people who made said law or confiscation order.

If it were in a court of law, they would be called accomplices.

Harry Guerrilla · Mar 14, 2010

samsmart said:
Here's the issue with comparing the First Amendment with the Second Amendment.

Many gun rights advocates claim that the Second Amendment is an absolute right to gun ownership. That is that gun ownership cannot be regulated or prevented in any way. Many claim such activists claim that Americans should be able to own any kind of firearm they want, including military firearms.

However, many 2A activists are conservatives, and conservatives, especially the Religious Right, like to restrict Free Speech guaranteed by the Constitution. They do this mostly through obscenity laws.

So if gun rights are an absolute right, then free speech should be an absolute right. If assault rifles can be purchased without regulation, then so can pornography.

That's the slippery slope gun rights' activists get into.

However, if we can have local obscenity laws prohibiting certain kinds of speech, then we can have local gun laws that prohibit certain kinds of firearms. One instance of this is the Chicago and D.C. handgun bans. (I'm not getting into an argument over whether or not a handgun ban in those cities are effective, as that's not the point; I'm arguing over whether or not local governments have the power to prohibit certain kinds of firearms).

So, to put the issue another way, my question is if those who believe that firearm ownership is an absolute right that extends to military weapons and assault rifles also resist things such as the FCC charging punitive fees against radio and television stations that air the Seven Dirty Words where children can hear just as ardently?

I view the entire Bill of Rights as non negotiable and absolute.

The current restrictions on speech are unacceptable to me.

TurtleDude · Mar 14, 2010

Partisan said:
You should probably change your 'lean' to 'Liberal'.....

More like barking loon bat:mrgreen:

Real Korimyr #9 · Mar 14, 2010

molten_dragon said:
Here's an interesting twist for those of you who said yes. Let's say hypothetically that the constitution was amended to remove the second amendment and take away people's right to bear arms. Would you still violently resist then?

Bearing arms is the closest thing to a human right I believe in. I am opposed to the disarmament of people regardless of whether or not they are covered by so-called "Constitutional rights".

LaMidRighter · Mar 14, 2010

Redress said:
Redress said:

I think those tactics are common in any political fight. It's sad, but there it is. Further, I disagree that the other amendments in the bill of rights are not under some attack at the very least.

Click to expand...

I agree fully with that

I also think where you vehement second amendment people go wrong is that stats are irrelevant. The second amendment is there, end argument.

Click to expand...

It's a "one battle at a time" situation, when dealing with any political situation you have to adress things as they come, with statistical and data abuse one must bring into question the relevance of such because of the nature of the beast. I agree with the fact that the amendment, and further the right is there so the argument should end at that, most people I feel agree with exactly that, the problem comes in when politicians and gun control activists ignore that.

* Edit- as well, I understand that all rights are under attack, this does not sit well with me personally, but if the second falls, there is no way to protect any other right fully. Of course, that is my opinion.

Goshin · Mar 14, 2010

molten_dragon said:
Also consider though, it takes 2/3 of both houses of congress to even suggest an amendment to the constitution, and 3/4 of the state legislatures to actually ratify it. If the constitution were amended to remove the 2nd amendment, it would mean that popular support was incredibly high for doing so. Would you still consider it right to resist something that so much of the country wanted to happen?

Yes, just as I would resist the removal of freedom of religion, no matter how large a majority was allegedly in favor of same.

Coronado · Mar 14, 2010

samsmart said:
So, to put the issue another way, my question is if those who believe that firearm ownership is an absolute right that extends to military weapons and assault rifles also resist things such as the FCC charging punitive fees against radio and television stations that air the Seven Dirty Words where children can hear just as ardently?

There should be no FCC. The biggest scam the government ever pulled off was nationalizing the airwaves.

CaptainCourtesy · Mar 14, 2010

Moderator's Warning:

Stop the baiting and personal attacks, people.

Coronado · Mar 15, 2010

Ethereal said:
If the Federal government started confiscating weapons en masse, would you violently resist them?

I say absolutely. I would rather die than let that happen.

I would do my best to circumvent the law and hide my gun, but if it came down to me handing over my gun(s) or be prosecuted, I would certainly have to realistically consider the use of lethal force against those who come to confiscate them. I would have to weigh whether and how it would affect my immediate family.

If the Second Amendment were repealed, I would simply ignore it and continue doing what I do. The Constitution is practically all dead letter anyway, so what's the difference?

Incidentally, once the guns are removed from the citizens of a country it is typically the minorities who are first in line for whatever nefarious plans the government has. Something for you folks to think about ...

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