Would death penalty in OBL's case be justifiable?

[Gandhi>Bush]

So you are telling me that Hitler would have a change of heart and not try to exterminate the jews and other people who did not meet their definition of a healthy superiors race if we did not come in to stomp a mudhole in his ass?

PLease explain how things would have happened if we or any of the other nations did not come in to stop hilter and allies?

You passiifst crack me up.You damn well if it was not for our military most of Europe would be under the Iron Fist of Hitler and those other dictators.

"Pascifist" is the word you're looking for.

I don't want to discuss the holocaust or World War. I've done enough of that the past month to last me the remainder of the year.

So it is okay he murder people base on alledged relgious principals?He should be humiliated with his religious principals.

No, he shouldn't, lest you wish to offend the religion.

I say bring out all the terrorist so we can shoot them down and end the scurge upon humanity.

I say its not that easy or that ethical.

IF there are any Osama bin laden sympathizers out there they are just as much as terrorist as he is and therefor should be wiped out as well.

You have alot of people you have to kill. I'm sure you can even find in yourself something about him that you sympathize with.

You listen to Michael Savage, so that must mean you hate gays, right? Congradulations.

THese people view passivism and comprimize as weakness.You are a little punk bitch to them if you are a passifist and you are oly falling for their trap if you comprimize with their extreamism.

What proof do you have of that?

Why do you not understand that?Is so hard for you to understand that not every culture gives a rats ass about a burn out hippy's ideology of how peace should be accomplished?

Burn out hippy? Okay...

Martin Luther King Jr's no violence in response to violence against them does not work everywhere.

It has certianly worked everywhere that it has been applied.

Where did you get this insane idea at?They are murderers but they would not kill their hostatges in hope of freeing Osama or sending the message they are not playing when it comes to wanting Osama freed??

They know how to play politics. They understand the Public Relations aspect of all this. Thats why hostages have been released in Palestine and Iraq as a result of protest from the Muslim world.

People are going to die whether they're killers or whether they're martyrs. There is no reason to kill Usama bin Laden. Revenge is unethical. The utilitarian notion of killing a man to send a message is unethical. Neither will save lives.

Peace

 

[jamesrage]

"Pascifist" is the word you're looking for.

I don't want to discuss the holocaust or World War. I've done enough of that the past month to last me the remainder of the year.

THis board proably has almost every kind of smily under the sun but there is not bawk bawk bawk chicken smily.

No, he shouldn't, lest you wish to offend the religion.

I am not worried about offending that rat's religion.Thosae terrorist we see on tv getting irate over a cartoon drawing of Mohamed are some hypocritical bastards.How many church have these hypocrits burned?How many christians jews and other non-muslims have they slaughtered?

I say its not that easy or that ethical.

War is not ethical.Peacenicks belong in monastaries not in charge of office.

You have alot of people you have to kill. I'm sure you can even find in yourself something about him that you sympathize with.

I do not sympathize with terrorist

You listen to Michael Savage, so that must mean you hate gays, right?

If you actaully listend to his show you would know that he does not hate gays.

What proof do you have of that?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=88369

The Hamas terror organization is claiming victory for Israel's withdrawal. The group promises to terrorize Haifa and Tel Aviv until Israel is defeated and "Palestine" restored to the Arabs.

Burn out hippy? Okay..

.

The ideological idea that war never solved a thing of the anti-war trash of during the veitnam war era.

It has certianly worked everywhere that it has been applied.

Explain how this would work in the middle east

They know how to play politics. They understand the Public Relations aspect of all this.

They fly planes into buildings,blow themselves up to murder innocent civilians
and behead hostages.Do you really think they give two shits?

Thats why hostages have been released in Palestine and Iraq as a result of protest from the Muslim world.

The only reasons why any of the muslims are doing **** is because they are being caught in the crossfire between terrorist and coalition troops

People are going to die whether they're killers or whether they're martyrs. There is no reason to kill Usama bin Laden.

There is over 2,986 reasons to execute Osama Bin Laden.

Revenge is unethical.

Say who,ever loser in the ant-death penalty movement?

 

[Alastor]

Would the death penalty be justified in Bin-Laden's case?

Yes. But not wise. Why make a martyr out of him?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

THis board proably has almost every kind of smily under the sun but there is not bawk bawk bawk chicken smily.

Okay.

I am not worried about offending that rat's religion.Thosae terrorist we see on tv getting irate over a cartoon drawing of Mohamed are some hypocritical bastards.How many church have these hypocrits burned?How many christians jews and other non-muslims have they slaughtered?

If you wonder why such a cartoon got people so irate, you do not understand at all the religion of Islam. You see, the Prophet Mohammed is the mouth of God, the Noble Qur'an the words of God. To ridicule Mohammed is to ridicule the word of God. The Noble Qur'an is not equivalent to Christian Bible. The Noble Qur'an is equivalent to Jesus, who is the word of God. The difference is that in Islam you are not allowed to have any portrayals of the prophet Mohammed, offensive or not offensive. There was even great debate in the Muslim world about the movie based on the life of Mohammed and glorified him. Do you see?

I, personally, do not believe that there should be any retraction or anything else. A conscilliatory article that explained certain aspects of their feelings of freedom and religious respect rather than the multiple European papers and authorities that printed "Nanny Nanny Boo boo, you can't stop us, ****ers!"

I think with all due respect that you should give more than a rat's ass about this religion. 1.2 billion people worldwide. That's way too many people that you're trying to offend.

War is not ethical.Peacenicks belong in monastaries not in charge of office.

What could a "peacenick" do from a monastery?

Why is it that you favor something you believe to be unethical?

I do not sympathize with terrorist

I'm sure you could sympathize with a few of his views. Not completely, no doubt, but I'm sure if you have quite a bit in common. He's just a bit more conservative than you...

If you actaully listend to his show you would know that he does not hate gays.

Are you kidding me? He hates everyone that's in anyway different. He yells and screams and ridicules dissenting opinions. I listen to him quite a bit. Last night he was listening to salsa music, which was incredibly annoying. Last week he was talking about how he'd be willing to pay $10 a gallon to watch the Iranians starve. I remember quite along time ago when he was talking about what we were going to have to do if another terrorist attack happened. He said he shouldn't say it on the air, but that everyone knew what he was talking about. It seemed a little Final-Solution-y.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=88369

The Hamas terror organization is claiming victory for Israel's withdrawal. The group promises to terrorize Haifa and Tel Aviv until Israel is defeated and "Palestine" restored to the Arabs.

Giving in is not nonviolence, nor is is intelligent. The second sentence, they've always promised to do that.

The ideological idea that war never solved a thing of the anti-war trash of during the veitnam war era.

I wasn't alive during vietnam. In hindsight it seems like one big ****-up, just from what I've read.

Explain how this would work in the middle east

Conflict Resolution? How does it work anywhere? I personally think we should work intimately with Israel/Palestine conflict, the Pakistan/India conflict, and the Russian/Chechnyan conflict. Resolve those conflicts in sensible manners and industrialize any country that will allow us to do so, put the internet in every Arab house, and watch the problem be sorted out in ten years.

They fly planes into buildings,blow themselves up to murder innocent civilians
and behead hostages.Do you really think they give two shits?

They've proven that they will do anything to swing public opinion.

The only reasons why any of the muslims are doing **** is because they are being caught in the crossfire between terrorist and coalition troops

That and their religion is being misrepresented by murderers.

There is over 2,986 reasons to execute Osama Bin Laden.

I do not believe that murdering a murderer is at all justice. Not to the victims, nor to God.

Say who,ever loser in the ant-death penalty movement?

Say every ethicist in the modern era.

 

[jamesrage]

If you wonder why such a cartoon got people so irate, you do not understand at all the religion of Islam. You see, the Prophet Mohammed is the mouth of God, the Noble Qur'an the words of God. To ridicule Mohammed is to ridicule the word of God. The Noble Qur'an is not equivalent to Christian Bible. The Noble Qur'an is equivalent to Jesus, who is the word of God. The difference is that in Islam you are not allowed to have any portrayals of the prophet Mohammed, offensive or not offensive. There was even great debate in the Muslim world about the movie based on the life of Mohammed and glorified him. Do you see?

Yes Muslims are not just hypocritical but the ****ing hypocritical.How many christian churches these people have burned down?How many jewish temples have these people burned down?How many American flags these people have burned?They have no room to talk about disreepect.the last time I checked Jews were not welcome in Iran,

I think with all due respect that you should give more than a rat's ass about this religion. 1.2 billion people worldwide. That's way too many people that you're trying to offend.

**** them as long as they are hypocritical.

What could a "peacenick" do from a monastery?

Preach,help the homelss,help the sick,watch children for low income people(scratch that idea),or teach.

Are you kidding me? He hates everyone that's in anyway different. He yells and screams and ridicules dissenting opinions.

If you actually listened to him longer than just your drive home you would know that he does not hate gays in general.

Last week he was talking about how he'd be willing to pay $10 a gallon to watch the Iranians starve.

The president of Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map.There is a huge possibility they are trying to aquire nuclear bomb technology.

I remember quite along time ago when he was talking about what we were going to have to do if another terrorist attack happened.

Bomb Mecca?,Secretly bomb muslims ports if they refuse to do anything about their terrorist?

Giving in is not nonviolence, nor is is intelligent.

It is comprimising and Hamas claimed the comprimise was them wooping Israel's ass.

The second sentence, they've always promised to do that.



I wasn't alive during vietnam. In hindsight it seems like one big ****-up, just from what I've read.



Conflict Resolution? How does it work anywhere? I personally think we should work intimately with Israel/Palestine conflict, the Pakistan/India conflict, and the Russian/Chechnyan conflict. Resolve those conflicts in sensible manners and industrialize any country that will allow us to do so, put the internet in every Arab house, and watch the problem be sorted out in ten years.



They've proven that they will do anything to swing public opinion.

That and their religion is being misrepresented by murderers.

They did not start giving a **** until it was their ass on the line with being caught in the cross fire and angry non-muslims retaliating against them.Look how their hypocritical asses got irate over a drawing of Mohammed.These same people who burn chruches,calls jews animals,burn bibles,ban other religions and religious symbols from their counties,get Irate when someone draws Mohammed.It seems like a case of do what I say and not what I do.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Yes Muslims are not just hypocritical but the ****ing hypocritical.

?

How many christian churches these people have burned down?

I don't know. Nothing is coming to mind.

How many jewish temples have these people burned down?

Nothing here either. Not saying it hasn't happened at some point, but I can't recall anything at this particular moment.

How many American flags these people have burned?

Lots probably. We **** them off alot.

They have no room to talk about disreepect.the last time I checked Jews were not welcome in Iran,

Why would a Jew want to go to Iran?

**** them as long as they are hypocritical.

Let me know how that works out.

Preach,help the homelss,help the sick,watch children for low income people(scratch that idea),or teach.

That sounds lame. I'm going to the West Bank.

If you actually listened to him longer than just your drive home you would know that he does not hate gays in general.

Just the ones that call into his show?

The president of Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map.There is a huge possibility they are trying to aquire nuclear bomb technology.

And that justifies starving civilians?

Bomb Mecca?,Secretly bomb muslims ports if they refuse to do anything about their terrorist?

He was implying a racist initiative here at home. That's certianly how it sounded to me. That's certainly what the redneck calling in was implying.

It is comprimising and Hamas claimed the comprimise was them wooping Israel's ass.

Ohh really? A comprimise? What did Israel get in return for such a thing?

They did not start giving a **** until it was their ass on the line with being caught in the cross fire and angry non-muslims retaliating against them.

I disagree. I think all it takes is for people to see such suffering. It took a long time to organize resistance, but it is there now. Even the Muslim brotherhood has spoken out against the kidnapping of the Journalist for the Christian Science Monitor.

Look how their hypocritical asses got irate over a drawing of Mohammed.These same people who burn chruches,calls jews animals,burn bibles,ban other religions and religious symbols from their counties,get Irate when someone draws Mohammed.It seems like a case of do what I say and not what I do.

Perhaps it is. I'm not going to say I don't think what's happening in Lebanon is hypocritical. I think it is. It's not very Muslim like either.

 

[jamesrage]

?



I don't know. Nothing is coming to mind.

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=26133
http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/11/13/build/world/98-church.inc
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/11049.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1521379/posts
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/001495.html

Nothing here either. Not saying it hasn't happened at some point, but I can't recall anything at this particular moment.

http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/09/13/muslims/

Lots probably. We **** them off alot.

They have no room to talk about desicration

Why would a Jew want to go to Iran?

http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_12455.shtml
http://www.directglasgow.co.uk/glasgow-iran/tours-in-iran.asp

Just the ones that call into his show?

The ones that call his show are not leftist vermin trying to bastardize marriage and distort American values.IN other words not all gays are leftist trash who want to distort American values and bastardize marriage.Not every gay confuse marriage with being the same struggle that americans of other races went through.

And that justifies starving civilians?

I beleave he was talking about cutting them off from any more American money they get from oil.

He was implying a racist initiative here at home.

What racist initiative?

Ohh really? A comprimise? What did Israel get in return for such a thing?

Comprimise comes in many forms,sometimes it is in the form of giving land in hopes of acheiving peace.

I disagree. I think all it takes is for people to see such suffering. It took a long time to organize resistance, but it is there now. Even the Muslim brotherhood has spoken out against the kidnapping of the Journalist for the Christian Science Monitor.

For some reason I doubt their sincerity.

Perhaps it is. I'm not going to say I don't think what's happening in Lebanon is hypocritical. I think it is.

I beleave they are hypocritical becasue they see the westerners as being defiant towards them.They do not bitch about the churchs that have paintings of Jesus and Jesus is a prophet in Islam.

It's not very Muslim like either.

Are you sure?Have you read the same Qur'an they read over in the middle east or is it the washed down version of the Qur'an that us westerners get to see?How do you know what is and is not proper muslim behavior?Have you read the whole Qur'an?
http://biblia.com/terrorism/islam.htm

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=26133
http://www.billingsgazette.com/newdex.php?display=rednews/2005/11/13/build/world/98-church.inc
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/11049.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1521379/posts
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/001495.html
http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/09/13/muslims/

Awesome. Did you notice that all of these had some sort of provocation or triggering event? Nothing justifies the these actions, but it helps my point (I'll get to it in a moment).

They have no room to talk about desicration

Who does?

http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_12455.shtml

Not only is that possibly the most boring thing I've ever read, it has nothing to do with Judaism.

http://www.directglasgow.co.uk/glasgow-iran/tours-in-iran.asp

Sounds like a shitty vacation.

It's all besides the point. People should be able to travel anywhere hon God's green Earth, do we agree? My previous statement was a joke.

The ones that call his show are not leftist vermin trying to bastardize marriage and distort American values.IN other words not all gays are leftist trash who want to distort American values and bastardize marriage.Not every gay confuse marriage with being the same struggle that americans of other races went through.

Bastardize marriage? I don't consider it bastardizing marriage, and I have yet to meet a homosexual that thinks they shouldn't have the right to make a formal legal and personal commitment of that magnitude.

I beleave he was talking about cutting them off from any more American money they get from oil.

He was talking about sanctions, and more directly paying more money at the pump to watch Iranians starve. There is no justification for such hatred. I don't care if it is irrational or a respose to an observation.

What racist initiative?

I'll give you a hint: When the comment was made race riots were all the rage in Australia..

Comprimise comes in many forms,sometimes it is in the form of giving land in hopes of acheiving peace.

It didn't look like a comprimise to me. It looked like giving tribute to the the Huns so that they would leave Rome.

For some reason I doubt their sincerity.

Quite right. It was something along the lines of "Reporters are necessary to showing the infidels atrocities..."

I beleave they are hypocritical becasue they see the westerners as being defiant towards them.They do not bitch about the churchs that have paintings of Jesus and Jesus is a prophet in Islam.

Jesus is not the mouth of God. Jesus is not the seal of the Prophets. Not in Islam anyway.

Are you sure?

Yea...

Have you read the same Qur'an they read over in the middle east or is it the washed down version of the Qur'an that us westerners get to see?

Stupidest thing, ever. "Us westerners" get biased readings of the Qur'an. Ones that demonize it and ones that glorify it as well as moderate translations. There is no perfect translation, but I have more than one.

How do you know what is and is not proper muslim behavior?

Discussions with and observations of Muslim friends and acquaintences.

Have you read the whole Qur'an?

No, I've read most of it though. Not all the way though. All the passages dealing with war, I can assure you. War must be in defense of Islam. Everything must be for Islam. That is the nature of Islam. Islam = Submit. That's why any violence by a Muslim, a Muslim has to justify to God. Often jihad is twisted into personal and political matters, but a good Muslim has to convinc himself that he is with God lest he be accused of Shriq/Idolatry. Nothing above God. Nothing that isn't for God.

That's old school though. Guys in America that are Muslim are alot more progressive and convince themselves that God wants them to be happy and successful, so they indulge themselves in education and pleasure, just like I do. Its complicated, and requires a great deal of commitment and faith. It's not like Christianity where you can go to Church on Sunday and be an asshole the rest of the week. You pray 5 times a day, fast for a month. You submit, and you are Muslim.

 

[jamesrage]

Awesome. Did you notice that all of these had some sort of provocation or triggering event? Nothing justifies the these actions, but it helps my point (I'll get to it in a moment).

Justification?Do you mean some christian half way across the world allegedly doing something for these terrorist to have justification for burning christian homes?

Sounds like a shitty vacation.

Shitty but educational

Bastardize marriage? I don't consider it bastardizing marriage, and I have yet to meet a homosexual that thinks they shouldn't have the right to make a formal legal and personal commitment of that magnitude.

I would call alterating the defination of marriage a bastardization of it.

I'll give you a hint: When the comment was made race riots were all the rage in Australia..

Internment?I must have missed that one.Although the hate michael savage sites are usually a good source for clips of things they think is offensive.
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/people/michaelsavage?sort=audio

Jesus is not the mouth of God. Jesus is not the seal of the Prophets. Not in Islam anyway.

Jesus is a prophet in Islam and is it not a sin to draw a picture of a muslim prophet?

Stupidest thing, ever. "Us westerners" get biased readings of the Qur'an. Ones that demonize it and ones that glorify it as well as moderate translations. There is no perfect translation, but I have more than one.

So in otherwords you are proably reading the washed down translation of the qur'an.

Discussions with and observations of Muslim friends and acquaintences.


That's old school though. Guys in America that are Muslim are alot more progressive and convince themselves that God wants them to be happy and successful, so they indulge themselves in education and pleasure, just like I do. Its complicated, and requires a great deal of commitment and faith. It's not like Christianity where you can go to Church on Sunday and be an asshole the rest of the week. You pray 5 times a day, fast for a month. You submit, and you are Muslim.

So you are talking to liberal muslims instead of actual or even moderate muslims?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Justification?Do you mean some christian half way across the world allegedly doing something for these terrorist to have justification for burning christian homes?

Is that what I said? No. I actually blatantly said Nothing justifies these actions.

There was something that set this stuff off.

Shitty but educational

If it's educational, it's not a vacation.

I would call alterating the defination of marriage a bastardization of it.

Then perhaps the government should have nothing to do with marriage all together? These people want to make a public, legal, God forbid spiritual commitment to one another that is equal to that of heterosexuals.

Internment?I must have missed that one.Although the hate michael savage sites are usually a good source for clips of things they think is offensive.
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/people/michaelsavage?sort=audio

No, race rioting. Finding Arab looking men and phyically giving them your two cents.

Jesus is a prophet in Islam and is it not a sin to draw a picture of a muslim prophet?

I don't know. Jesus and Mohammed are not equal though. It may simply be do not draw pictures of Mohammed. I honetly don't know for sure.

So in otherwords you are proably reading the washed down translation of the qur'an.

I am reading the two that are widely accepted as the closest english translation.

So you are talking to liberal muslims instead of actual or even moderate muslims?

I am talking to America Muslims. They are fairly conservative on our scale of things. For the Iraq war, against homosexual marriage, against abortion, all that jazz. As far as their interpretation of Islam I am told it is the same as their parents interpretations. They've told me that a great misconception is that Muslims are all strict literalists. One of the people in question is from Iran, and he says that's simply not how it is over there. Their people like you and me that pray five times a day, and try to put food on the table the rest of the day.

 

[Stinger]

I'm against the death penalty because I can not believe without a doubt that all ppl on death row are guilty of thier crime.

So what about when there is no doubt?

Also I do not believe that such vengence ever provides any closure to the victim's family or close ones.

I believe most would disagree with you but that is only one aspect of the death penalty.

What do you think, and please I do not wish for partisan bickering of you dems, you repubs, or you left and you right type of generalizations in this thread as it is hardly constructive to say the least.

Shoot him on sight. He should be wanted dead or alive preferrably dead.

 

[jamesrage]

Is that what I said? No. I actually blatantly said Nothing justifies these actions.

There was something that set this stuff off..

What do you think set these people off?Sopme event on the other side of the world that has nothing to do with them?

If it's educational, it's not a vacation.

I would love to be able to visit the ruins of a ancient city or some othe historical site as a vacation.

Then perhaps the government should have nothing to do with marriage all together? These people want to make a public, legal, God forbid spiritual commitment to one another that is equal to that of heterosexuals.

It is not equal,two people who are confused where to stick it is not the same as a sane couple.

No, race rioting. Finding Arab looking men and phyically giving them your two cents.

I don't know. Jesus and Mohammed are not equal though. It may simply be do not draw pictures of Mohammed. I honetly don't know for sure.

Reguardless who the image is of, it is a crime in Islam to draw a prophet.

I am reading the two that are widely accepted as the closest english translation.

The glorious Qur'an?

http://www.freequran.org/

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/freequran.asp

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

What do you think set these people off?Sopme event on the other side of the world that has nothing to do with them?

In one case it was an Imam that had been arrested. In another it had been a Christian that allegedly cheated a man out of money. That's all by memory because I don't feel like re-reading the articles. Conflict has a cause, always. Again, these things are not justifiable.

I would love to be able to visit the ruins of a ancient city or some othe historical site as a vacation.

Vacation to me is hanging out in New York, but that's more of a personal preference I suppose.

It is not equal,two people who are confused where to stick it is not the same as a sane couple.

Ohh how I wrong I was about your tolerance for homosexuals.

Reguardless who the image is of, it is a crime in Islam to draw a prophet.

Actually I just learned that you're not supposed to draw or create the image of anything animate. Exceptions are made for recreating the face of a criminal or for ID cards, but you're not supposed to draw anything animate. An old rule that many Muslims don't go along with today. They don't really follow this today, but that's the official rule. The real issue is not only recreating the image of the prophet, but insulting him and, in that, God. Again, Jesus is in no way equivalent to Mohammed.

The glorious Qur'an?

http://www.freequran.org/

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/freequran.asp

I paid money for both of mine. Articles of commentary traditional to modern discussing issues of interpretation as well as translation.

 

[jamesrage]

In one case it was an Imam that had been arrested. In another it had been a Christian that allegedly cheated a man out of money. That's all by memory because I don't feel like re-reading the articles. Conflict has a cause, always. Again, these things are not justifiable.
.

You call what one or two men allegedly did a cause for murdering innocent people

Ohh how I wrong I was about your tolerance for homosexuals.

I am not some idiot who thinks that a man whose equipment is supposed to go into a female is somehow proper or normal for that same equipment
to go into another man.

Actually I just learned that you're not supposed to draw or create the image of anything animate. Exceptions are made for recreating the face of a criminal or for ID cards, but you're not supposed to draw anything animate. An old rule that many Muslims don't go along with today. They don't really follow this today, but that's the official rule. The real issue is not only recreating the image of the prophet, but insulting him and, in that, God. Again, Jesus is in no way equivalent to Mohammed.

So now the issue changes to insultiung mohammed verses drawing a image of him.These muslims we see acting like animals on tv are some of the biggest hypocrits.They do the same things that they are protesting and acting like vile animals over.

I paid money for both of mine.

I got mine for free.

 

[easyt65]

I would definitely NOT put OBL to death if we caught him. The last thing we want to do is make him a Martyr!

Anyone remember Noriega? Anyone ever think about where he is today? They stuck him in a whole somewhere, and you never hear anything about him anymore. THAT would be one of the choices for OBL's fate, had I my way.

The other?

He is a big advocate for reducing women to basically slaves, as Al Qaeda did in Afghanistan. I'd give him a sex change, a little plastic surgery, wipe his memory, and then sell him on the Black Market to Al Qaeda as a slave.
:shock: :rofl

 

[jamesrage]

He is a big advocate for reducing women to basically slaves, as Al Qaeda did in Afghanistan. I'd give him a sex change, a little plastic surgery, wipe his memory, and then sell him on the Black Market to Al Qaeda as a slave.
:shock: :rofl

Screw wipping his memory clean.He woiuld be just seen as a crazy person even amoungst radicals as a woman claiming to be Osama Bin Laden.If you wipe his memory clean and turn him into a woman he will not have any idea of the results
his actions have had on women.But if you just turn him into a woman with out wipping his memory, he will see through a woman's eyes how women are treated and realize that it is his fault.

 

[easyt65]

Screw wipping his memory clean.He woiuld be just seen as a crazy person even amoungst radicals as a woman claiming to be Osama Bin Laden.If you wipe his memory clean and turn him into a woman he will not have any idea of the results
his actions have had on women.But if you just turn him into a woman with out wipping his memory, he will see through a woman's eyes how women are treated and realize that it is his fault.

....good point! I'll be keeping my eye on you! :shock:

 

[jfuh]

He is a big advocate for reducing women to basically slaves, as Al Qaeda did in Afghanistan. I'd give him a sex change, a little plastic surgery, wipe his memory, and then sell him on the Black Market to Al Qaeda as a slave.
:shock: :rofl

Lol, I had that exact same thought, only it was more along the lines of castration, followed by a Michael Jackson make over, then just toss the guy in any prison in the US with a cell mate names bubba.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

You call what one or two men allegedly did a cause for murdering innocent people

I didn't say it was a justifiable. I don't think killing is ever justified, but people like you as well as the people in question feel differently. There is always a reason, and it's rarely a good one.

I am not some idiot who thinks that a man whose equipment is supposed to go into a female is somehow proper or normal for that same equipment to go into another man.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Why the hell do you care about where these people "stick it?"

There is no reason why these people shouldn't be able to make the same LEGAL, PERSONAL, EMOTIONAL, COMMITMENT that you and I can make. It's not the governments business nor is it yours where these guys stick their penises. So calm down and focus on your own penis.

So now the issue changes to insultiung mohammed verses drawing a image of him.These muslims we see acting like animals on tv are some of the biggest hypocrits.They do the same things that they are protesting and acting like vile animals over.

I think they're being pretty stupid to, but you've got to understand how seriously these people take their God. The faith in these people is beyond that of most Christians that I know.

I got mine for free.

I'm not going to get in a ******* contest over who has the best Qur'an.

 

[Alastor]

If any retard thinks Osama Bin laden is man of god then **** what they think.They need to be stuffed full of bacon and fried in the electric chair too.

That's exactly the kind of thinking that got us into this mess. It's exactly the kind of thinking that those who slammed airplanes into the Twin Towers, a corn field and the Pentagon had. It's exactly the mentality that caused our current issue, and it's exactly that mentality that will perpetuate it.

This mentality is only different from those of our enemy in that James happens to be one of us.

James also said (in response to why we shouldn't keep Bin-Ladin alive):

Do you remeber all those hostages?They were not taken hostage for the **** of it.Everyone of those terrorist had demands.

If you're implying that Al-Qaida might take hostages to negotiate the release of Bin-Ladin... Then true, and a fair point. However if we whacked him, instead of taking hostages they'd simply perform bombings each year in memory of their fallen martyr... probably directing them at Israel, exascerbating their already tense situation. There are no good choices here, that's true enough; but some are still worse than others.

The hitlers in head scarfs...

Right here... You become unreasonable and show us that the topic of discussion is over your head. You are consumed by your emotions, and unable to discuss things intelligently. No amount of reasonable resolution can come from an enraged zealot. Most reasonable people - those looking for an actual solution - start ignoring you right here.

 

[jamesrage]

There is no reason why these people shouldn't be able to make the same LEGAL, PERSONAL, EMOTIONAL, COMMITMENT that you and I can make. It's not the governments business nor is it yours where these guys stick their penises. So calm down and focus on your own penis.

Here is where you are wrong,when you demand a discount,a benifit or special privilage from the government, it becomes their business what you do.

I think they're being pretty stupid to, but you've got to understand how seriously these people take their God. The faith in these people is beyond that of most Christians that I know.

I take my God very seriously.Just because I do not or advocate the slaughter people of other relgions,burn down Jewish temples,and other religious templeas and then murder innocent people because someone drew something offensive does not mean I take my God lightly.Acting like some hypocritical savage animal does not make one a hard core beleaver.

I'm not going to get in a ******* contest over who has the best Qur'an.

I am not trying to have a ******* match.You proably have the same washed down version of the Qur'an that I have.Although it is pretty ignorant to pay something when you can legitimately get it for free.

 

[jamesrage]

That's exactly the kind of thinking that got us into this mess. It's exactly the kind of thinking that those who slammed airplanes into the Twin Towers, a corn field and the Pentagon had. It's exactly the mentality that caused our current issue, and it's exactly that mentality that will perpetuate it.

This mentality is only different from those of our enemy in that James happens to be one of us.

When you are dealing with people like those terrorist you can not use the same courtesy and diplomocy as you would do with your nieghbor.

James also said (in response to why we shouldn't keep Bin-Ladin alive):


If you're implying that Al-Qaida might take hostages to negotiate the release of Bin-Ladin... Then true, and a fair point.

It is a fair point.

However if we whacked him, instead of taking hostages they'd simply perform bombings each year in memory of their fallen martyr... probably directing them at Israel, exascerbating their already tense situation.

Those people will simply look like terrorist sympathizers and eventually the average Joe muslim who is sick of these terrorist animals will either turn them into authorities or shoot them himself.

Israel is like the suicide bomber capital of the world,the terrorist will always find a reason to blame Israel for something.Iran blames Israel for those cartoons published in dutch newspaper.

There are no good choices here, that's true enough; but some are still worse than others.

I would call making examples out of our enimies the better result and making our enimies fear us the better result.

Right here... You become unreasonable and show us that the topic of discussion is over your head. You are consumed by your emotions, and unable to discuss things intelligently. No amount of reasonable resolution can come from an enraged zealot. Most reasonable people - those looking for an actual solution - start ignoring you right here.

If you read what these people have done in the past twenty or thirty years you would see that when describing these terrorist hilters in head scarfs is a very accurate term.

 

[Alastor]

When you are dealing with people like those terrorist you can not use the same courtesy and diplomocy as you would do with your nieghbor.

No doubt! Of course not. However, to become as zealotous and murderous as they are does us no good either, and in fact feeds into their objectives. Also consider that behaviors such as this very mentality are the ones that perpetuate the cycle; creating situations like we have now where new terrorists are bred by the hundreds of thousands, and without the "bad guys" having to do anything to make it happen.

So... We do ourselves no favors by becoming blood-crazed maniacs.




While I acknowledged your point on killing Bin-Ladin, James, you failed to acknowledge any of mine on why we shouldn't.



In response to suicide bombers being bred from the martyrdom we would create by killing Bin-Ladin, you wrote:

Those people will simply look like terrorist sympathizers and eventually the average Joe muslim who is sick of these terrorist animals will either turn them into authorities or shoot them himself.

And you're lying to yourself too. You're living in a wet dream. That's not reality. They don't see him the way we see him, and they're not going to until we engage them (intellecutally and emotionally) and give them good reason to do so.

Israel is like the suicide bomber capital of the world,the terrorist will always find a reason to blame Israel for something.Iran blames Israel for those cartoons published in dutch newspaper.

True. What's your point?

I would call making examples out of our enimies the better result and making our enimies fear us the better result.

Really? How has that worked for us so far? How about Israel who has been doing it for over 60 years? Worked well for them, no? No; it hasn't. See... there's the problem... what you and I and many others want to do or would like to do... doesn't work. And it's been proven many many times.

I think we'd better try something else. There are other methods out there that have worked. I suggest we try one of those.

If you read what these people have done in the past twenty or thirty years you would see that when describing these terrorist hilters in head scarfs is a very accurate term.

And calling you a WASP is probably accurate as well. That doesn't make it right, intelligent for me to do so, productive for me to do so, or very worth listening to, does it?

 

[MSgt]

We have seen Radical Islamists perform acts of violence and execute innocent civillians over "political prisoners." Whenever legal conditions permit, we should kill terrorists on the spot. We should not give them a chance to surrender if we can help it. Contrary to academic wisdon, the surest way to make a martyr of a terrorist is to capture, convict, and imprison him, leading to endless efforts by sympathizers to stage kidnappings, hijacking and other events intended to liberate the imprisoned terrorists. This is war, not law enforcement.

Many of you do not appreciate the nature of what we face. Many of you haven't an iota of insight to the study of terrorism, Radical Islam, or the Middle East. When spouting off "opinions," one should stop to think about what those opinions are based on. Are they based on intellect, study, or facts? Or are they based on emotion and fantasy? Our enemies in the "War on Terror" are men who believe, literally, that they are on a mission from God to destroy your civilization and, who regard death as a promotion, are not impressed by our morals and restrictions to remain civil. We must find them; no matter how long it takes, and then kill them. If they surrender, we must accord them their rights under the laws of war and international conventions. But, as we have learned so painfully from all the mindless, left-wing nonsense spouted about the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, we are much better off killing them before they have a chance to surrender. This is not about diplomatic table manners. This is war.

No, the absolutely best thing the soldier or Marine in the field with Osama Bin Laden in his sights could do is pull the trigger before the "death penalty" or "martyrdom" even becomes an issue. Why do you think we haven't seen proof of life for over a year, yet attempts continue to be made by our enemies to show the Muslim world that he is still alive? He is a "living" martyr and our enemies need to keep him that way. He is proof that one can inflict great damage on the "great Satan" and get away with it.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Here is where you are wrong,when you demand a discount,a benifit or special privilage from the government, it becomes their business what you do.

No it isn't. Should heterosexuals who practice sodomy not be able to get married? Should heterosexuals who practice oral sex not be able to get married? It isn't the Governments business at all where anyone sticks anything unless there is a violation of rights by way of inadequate moral agency.

The Government should encourage monogamy. Period.

I take my God very seriously.Just because I do not or advocate the slaughter people of other relgions,burn down Jewish temples,and other religious templeas and then murder innocent people because someone drew something offensive does not mean I take my God lightly.Acting like some hypocritical savage animal does not make one a hard core beleaver.

Is everything you do in your life in for God? Have you submitted your entire life, your words, your actions, to God? This is what Islam requires. Submission to God, totally and completely.

I am not trying to have a ******* match.You proably have the same washed down version of the Qur'an that I have.Although it is pretty ignorant to pay something when you can legitimately get it for free.

Does your Qur'an have the original Arabic text? Does your Qur'an have essays and information regarding conflicting beliefs of certain passages? I recieved this book as a Christmas present (I know, I know, AWKWARD) and I don't know how much was paid for it, but it was precisely what I wanted and needed.

I'd really rather not pursue this any farther.