Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

[ThePlayDrive]

It's declared unconstitutional(4th amendment) and not acceptable within law enforcement (GRURFEA). Maybe it's to avoid cops shooting black kids simply because they look suspicious :shrug:

Exactly, just because a bunch of criminals are black, that doesn't mean that every black person ought to be a suspect.

 

[Hatuey]

That's my point. They dropped the charge. They don't drop charges on people who beat cops. Ever. There is more to the story.

He didn't beat the cop. He pushed him apparently. It seems reasonable to drop the main charge if he pleads guilty to misdemeanour. The country/state benefits far more from somebody paying fines than somebody going to jail.

 

[joko104]

My guess is that Martin did not know about the gun until the scuffle.

Maybe Zimmerman did not even intend to draw it until Martin reached for it.

I have a hard time believing Zimmerman already had the gun drawn and Martin just walks up and breaks his nose. Honestly who does that?

I can tell you this: I have a concealed weapons permit and occasionally carry. Besides my desire not to kill someone, every gun owner knows in the back of their mind that even if they use it in such a way that it is justified you still have to deal with such consequences of a grieving family and possible retribution.

I'd say must gun owners will not just draw down on someone at the drop of a hat.

The number of people killed by guns is a very tiny in comparison to the number of people who have guns ( estimated 1 in 4 Americans).

If Martin knew about the gun he would have told his girlfriend on the cell phone. Sadly, if Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun I don't think any of this would have happened. Zimmerman was to reserved in that regards.

 

[Thunder]

That's my point. They dropped the charge. They don't drop charges on people who beat cops. Ever. There is more to the story.

they do if they plead guilty to lesser charges, which is what Zimmy did.

 

[joko104]

He didn't beat the cop. He pushed him apparently. It seems reasonable to drop the main charge if he pleads guilty to misdemeanour. The country/state benefits far more from somebody paying fines than somebody going to jail.

There is no final conviction. That's a not guilty.

 

[Res Cogitans]

Racial profiling is a bunch of bull****. If a neighborhood is being continually robbed by a bunch of African-Americans, being cautious about a bunch of African-Americans is the exact right way to react. All this stuff about racial profiling is a bunch of nonsense, in my opinion.

What if it's a bunch of blonde people?

Oh, that's right, no one would make the connection if they were all blonde...

When I was a younger, my car got searched every time I got pulled over. And it wasn't because I am blonde. Racial profiling sucks when you are assumed to be a criminal.

Talk about guilty until being proven innocent...

 

[ThePlayDrive]

great. individuals should. It doesn't make Zimmerman a bad person, or change anything that night.

Not really. Perhaps race+behavior+environment makes sense, but deeming anyone of a certain race a potential danger is just as stupid as deeming anyone of certain eye color a potential danger. If say 10 black guys are committing crimes and 100 black guys live in the area, it's statistically stupid to be suspicious of all the black people.

 

[Hatuey]

So zimmerman went to a black kid and asked him if he saw any suspicious black kids in the neighborhood? Wait, what? is that your argument?

Hahaha what? Here let's play a game - can you tell a person's race from a name? Did you know the name Tyrone is Irish?

Sorta reminds me of the time your hater lifestyle got jealous of The Good Reverend, kid.

Dude, you pretended your CLEAR card was some sort of high road. I exposed you for being unable to read and pretending it gave you some sort of access no one else had. Lol, give up the act - it's not funny.

 

[joko104]

That's my point. They dropped the charge. They don't drop charges on people who beat cops. Ever. There is more to the story.

A friend was getting roughed up by a cop and Zimmerman pushed the officer off his friend. So the cop arrested Zimmerman too. The charge dropped against Zimmerman and he dropped the misconduct complaint against the officer. That's the essence as reported anyway. File sealed - meaning the POLICE didn't want anyone to read about what their officer allegedly did, not to protect Zimmerman.

Actually, that tidbit increased my "liking" of Zimmerman. He sounds like a friend who'd back you up, when most duck and abandon if there's trouble. There was no fight with the cop even alleged.

If Zimmerman was found guilty even a misdemeanor he could never have gotten a concealed handgun permit, nor could he have with a final determination of domestic violence

Very, very few people will lift a finger for anyone anymore. I think if ANYONE of ALL the people in that crowded neighborhood at 7 pm had run up shouting "break it up! break it up!" I think it wouldn't have gone so far. But instead they all ran inside hiding. Most apparently refusing to even tell police what they saw not to involve.

In my prior different-life-style urban past, more than once, 5 or 20 times, I've seen police arrive to someone severely stabbed or beaten unconscious in a club and over 100 people standing around. And not one saw anything. Nor intervened. Nor even know anyone's last name, even if the first. Or even their own real name.

Zimmerman gave a damn about his neighbors and community. That's rare. Very. And is going to become ever rarer now.

 

[MaggieD]

He didn't beat the cop. He pushed him apparently. It seems reasonable to drop the main charge if he pleads guilty to misdemeanour. The country/state benefits far more from somebody paying fines than somebody going to jail.

If it had been serious enough to warrant posters saying he "beat the cop," he would have ended up in jail. The SA is not in the habit of not protecting its own. That's my point. Beating a cop would never get pled down to a misdemeanor. All he'd have had to do is put his hand on the copper's arm as he was taking his friend into custody, and he'd have gotten that charge. It's just not fair to villify this guy as much as some are doing.

 

[joko104]

Hahaha what? Here let's play a game - can you tell a person's race from a name? Did you know the name Tyrone is Irish?



Dude, you pretended your CLEAR card was some sort of high road. I exposed you for being unable to read and pretending it gave you some sort of access no one else had. Lol, give up the act - it's not funny.

Latino Zimmerman was profiling Irish people? I can believe that.

 

[Hatuey]

Latino Zimmerman was profiling Irish people? I can believe that.

Are you grabbing material for your latest post on race wars or something?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

What if it's a bunch of blonde people?

Oh, that's right, no one would make the connection if they were all blonde...

When I was a younger, my car got searched every time I got pulled over. And it wasn't because I am blonde. Racial profiling sucks when you are assumed to be a criminal.

Talk about guilty until being proven innocent...

Yep, I had a black friend who was shopping in a store in college. A woman kept following her (as in hovering behind her) around the store leaving all the other customers (~5, all white) to shop by themselves. My friend said she saw a white girl her age stuff a shirt or jewelry (I can't remember) into her purse while SHE was being followed. It's unbelievable.

People shouldn't be made to fee like criminals because of skin tone.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Hahaha what? Here let's play a game - can you tell a person's race from a name? Did you know the name Tyrone is Irish?

Yes let's play:


Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman: Who is neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman? - Orlando Sentinel

Teontae Ami, who also lives in the Retreat at Twin Lakes community, said very few black teenagers like himself live in the neighborhood.

Teontae, 17, said he and a close friend who is black would sit at the end of a driveway in the evening and felt uncomfortable when Zimmerman would pass them on a neighborhood patrol.

They used to greet him, but he never responded, Teontae said.

"I think he took his job too seriously," Teontae said, referring to Zimmerman's watch patrols. A student, Teontae said his friend was once confronted by Zimmerman, who accused him of stealing a bike.

"I don't want to call it a black thing, but it sure seemed like it," said Teontae, who said the bike was never stolen.

Just stop kid, you are out of your league.


the Game.... you lost.

Dude, you pretended your CLEAR card was some sort of high road. I exposed you for being unable to read and pretending it gave you some sort of access no one else had. Lol, give up the act - it's not funny.

Well, if you want to present yourself in such a dishonest way, I can't stop you. I linked you to the TSA sight, mentioned the pilot program at EWR (that's newark), and pointed out our first encounter with clear was in Orlando. I am sorry you are so desperate to be relevant you lose all composure so quickly, relax kid, it's just the internet. trying to hard as you do is simply embarrassing. :shrug:

 

[What if...?]

ROFL:

Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



What would you call this? Please quit making yourself look bad. It's depressing.

For the sake of clarity, I have read that there was a rash of breakins involving black males.

So it is entirely possible that in Zims statements above that "black" is only a "descriptor" in this particular instance.

 

[Hatuey]

If it had been serious enough to warrant posters saying he "beat the cop," he would have ended up in jail.

It seems the charge was assault - so people thought he'd gotten into a fight with a cop. It was later found he pushed him.

The SA is not in the habit of not protecting its own. That's my point. Beating a cop would never get pled down to a misdemeanor. All he'd have had to do is put his hand on the copper's arm as he was taking his friend into custody, and he'd have gotten that charge. It's just not fair to villify this guy as much as some are doing.

Did you read what I said? Apparently he pushed the cop given what sources are saying.

 

[Ockham]

For good reason. Look how he acted simply because a hoodie and skittles.

So the 4th amendment statement you made was irrelevant.

No. You're sinking in the water and grasping for straws.

Yet that's what you inferred... without the 4th amendment cops would be having target practice with little black boys in the street. It's a waste to use the cutesy stuff on me.

 

[ARealConservative]

Not really. Perhaps race+behavior+environment makes sense, but deeming anyone of a certain race a potential danger is just as stupid as deeming anyone of certain eye color a potential danger. If say 10 black guys are committing crimes and 100 black guys live in the area, it's statistically stupid to be suspicious of all the black people.

I don’t see any reason to think Zimmerman was suspicious merely based on race. He claimed Martin was peering in homes and acting strange.

And now we actually have reason to think maybe Martin is prone to being on drugs, and stealing/vandalizing property. His recent behavior matches up exactly with what Zimmerman was suspicious of.

 

[Ockham]

For the sake of clarity, I have read that there was a rash of breakins involving black males.

So it is entirely possible that in Zims statements above that "black" is only a "descriptor" in this particular instance.

Well, Zimmermans statements are being used as racist fodder --- that there actually were "breakins involving black males", does that now make it non-racist and factual? Or is it still a racist comment as many in this thread are contending?

 

[joko104]

Yep, I had a black friend who was shopping in a store in college. A woman kept following her (as in hovering behind her) around the store leaving all the other customers (~5, all white) to shop by themselves. My friend said she saw a white girl her age stuff a shirt or jewelry (I can't remember) into her purse while SHE was being followed. It's unbelievable.

People shouldn't be made to fee like criminals because of skin tone.

I don't believe it generally is racial profiling, but economic profiling. Old cars and trucks with young people are pulled over far more often. But it more likely they have unpaid tickets and no insurance. Not saying its fair, but generally I don't think its racial, rather is economic. Age a BIG factor too.

 

[OscarB63]

Consider this, change nothing, but Zimmerman is not armed.
Now when the cops show up(aprox 60 seconds)Zimmerman is beat up bad, maybe dead.
What would Trayvon's story be, that Zimmerman ran him down, attacked him and lost the fight?
Or that this guy was following me, so I got in his face.
Ether way he would be charged with assault. ( the run down story would not be believable)
I choose to believe, that George Zimmerman is a good neighbor, who spoke up when he saw
something out of place. An unknown person in a gated community.
The main thing that went wrong here, is that Trayvon confronted George, before the police arrived.

Zimmerman had every right to follow an unknown person in his gated community

Martin had every right to confront a guy he did not know who was following him

Where this story goes wrong is when Martin continues to beat Zimmerman after he had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground. That alone gives Zimmerman the right to defend himself

 

[joko104]

I don’t see any reason to think Zimmerman was suspicious merely based on race. He claimed Martin was peering in homes and acting strange.

And now we actually have reason to think maybe Martin is prone to being on drugs, and stealing/vandalizing property. His recent behavior matches up exactly with what Zimmerman was suspicious of.

But they will rage you are violating Martin's juvenile privacy and trying to harm his reputation out of cruelty by writing that.

 

[Thunder]

Zimmerman had every right to follow an unknown person in his gated community

Martin had every right to confront a guy he did not know who was following him

Where this story goes wrong is when Martin continues to beat Zimmerman after he had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground....

and what if Zimmy continued to fight back?

 

[What if...?]

Your speculation that Zimmerman put himself in a dangerous situation is based on nothing more than your desires to see Zimmerman strapped to Old Sparky. There is nothing inherently dangerous about keeping tabs on someone. The two men both took paths to get where they were when the gun went off. Zimmerman could have avoided the altercation by staying home but you seem intent on ignoring that Martin could have avoided the altercation too.

I know you don't have the least bit of interest in factual evidence but I do. I might not necessarily believe Zimmerman's account that he lost sight of Martin and headed back to his SUV on its own but it's corroborated by his conversation with the 911 dispatcher and Martin's girlfriend. He was remarkably accurate and descriptive about his actions with the 911 dispatcher up to that point so I see no reason to believe he lied to the dispatcher about losing Martin. The real thorn in your argument though is Martin's girlfriend stating that he confronted Zimmerman wanting to know why he was being followed.

I don't personally care about any of this as they're both reasonable reactions to the events and neither warrants any sort of physical altercation at all but if you're going to make the argument that it could have all been avoided if Zimmerman stayed home, it can equally be argued that it could have all been avoided had Martin not confronted Zimmerman.



I don't have a version of events here. While you've engaged in unsubstantiated speculation for 180-something pages now, I'm just looking at the factual information and that includes Cutcher's admission that she witnessed the altercation after Martin was dead. You're just incorrect when you say her testimony is inconsistent with other witnesses. Those other witnesses were describing the events before Martin's death. This is just a matter of fact no matter how inconvenient to your unsubstantiated speculation.

You do realize that the girlfriends account and Zimmermans are NOT THE SAME, right?

 

[MaggieD]

Well, Zimmermans statements are being used as racist fodder --- that there actually were "breakins involving black males", does that now make it non-racist and factual? Or is it still a racist comment as many in this thread are contending?

I never thought anything he said was a racial comment. As for the unknown sound byte maybe calling them "coons"? If he did say that, then I would change my opinion and call him racist.