Witness: Martin Attacked Zimmerman (2)

[ric27]

Ah, I was trying to look around to find if Trayvon had injuries, I can't find any sites that say either way. Does anyone know if he had injuries also? I fin d it hard to believe that a person who is 100 lbs heavier than someone else loses a fight.

Martin suddenly surprised, Zim by launching a full-fledged attack without any warning to him within close range

Martin most definitely had the edge. Its escalating mayhem after that

100lbs..150lbs advantage means squat when, you are sucker punched eace

 

[Ockham]

The GFs statement contradicts Zimmermans.

That's a shocker right there huh?

 

[Peter Ilyich]

God, Michael Moore now? Anybody we're missing? George Soros? FDR? Saddam Hussein?

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Jryan]

You know, when you start answering my questions, I'll start answering yours.

- You claimed TONS of evidence of a botched police investigation. I asked for more information on the TONS, got zip.
- You then whined about how a shooter could not be tested for alcohol / drugs and I asked where in the Florida statutes it identifies that's a requirement. Got nothing again.
- I then claimed you're making stuff up without evidence... again no response.

I'll wait...

Corey's team is now reinvestigating a case that the Sanford Police Department is accused of bungling. Possible police missteps include failing to administer a toxicology exam on Zimmerman, not impounding his car, and failing to contact key witnesses -- like Martin's girlfriend, who was talking to the teen by cell phone and heard most of the scuffle with Zimmerman unfold.

^^ That was in a response to someone else... ^^

Page 2: Trayvon Martin Shooter Says Teenager Went for His Gun - ABC News

It isn't defined that it should happen. I was under the assumption that we lived in a logical society...

If you are referring to the botched investigation, see above...

I'll wait...

 

[Kreton]

You mean the same police that didn't do a toxicology report on Zimmerman. The same police that didn't do any analysis on the weapon. The same police that didn't take pics of Zimmerman's injuries or contact the victim's family with the cellphone they had in custody. The same police that didn't run Zimmerman's priors and told the family his record was squeaky clean? Those police?

What other police would I possibly be referring to? Do you honestly think I mean the LAPD? Also what does the police screwing up have to do with whether or not Zimmerman is guilty? Do you honestly think that if the police screw something up that then that makes someone automatically guilty?

The kid did not confirm Zimmerman was screaming as far as I know

They did. According to the news.

If it's a concealed weapon, how did Martin know to go for it unless Zimmerman drew it?

You dont think that falling to the ground and getting beaten by someone on top of you could knock out or reveal a weapon in your waistband or holster on your side? The gun was on Zimmermans person, not buried in a gun box 30 feet away.

If Zimmerman drew the weapon and Martin rushed it, it would make a lot of sense no?

If there was some evidence to support that then maybe. But there isnt.

Read it. The police bungled the case.

And we are back to this. Do you always assume that if the police bungle a case that the accused is guilty? From what I know of liberals they usually assume innocence when police foul up an investigation. Wonder what makes this case so different?

 

[Jryan]

Martin suddenly surprised, Zim by launching a full-fledged attack without any warning to him within close range

Martin most definitely had the edge. Its escalating mayhem after that

100lbs..150lbs advantage means squat when, you are sucker punched eace

Right, but if he is lying then...

 

[buck]

It shouldn't be IMHO... Being in an altered state almost always changes your fight or flight thinking.

Wether you think it should be or not, has squat to do with it. If they had reason to suspect he was in an altered state, they would have gotten a warrant and tested him. If they had no reason to suspect it - after 2 hours of interrogation - probably means he wasn't under the influence of anything.

 

[What if...?]

If all what you are saying is *true*then why, the NO-GO from, the DA to even file? Given all the evidence?

Why? Among the litigators, the technical term of art for such pronouncements without certainty is "****ing useless bull****."

Maybe they still let Zims dad play in the weekly judges and prosecutors poker game.

Judge Dad!

Hero of wayward offspring for millenia!

 

[Kreton]

Stalking someone IMHO is an act of hostility. If you are walking down a road at night and someone is following you on the phone staring at you; wouldn't you become suspicious of this person? Under Zimmerman's logic, it is okay to suspect people wandering the streets at night as suspicious, but EVERYONE should know that he is the police captain...

You can follow someone. As long as you dont get aggressive you are not breaking any laws. I addressed this already. Please read my other post.

 

[Jryan]

Wether you think it should be or not, has squat to do with it. If they had reason to suspect he was in an altered state, they would have gotten a warrant and tested him. If they had no reason to suspect it - after 2 hours of interrogation - probably means he wasn't under the influence of anything.

Right, but even being addicted to certain drugs will alter your state of thinking. I mean, you just shot and killed someone; how much of an inconvenience is it for them to take some blood and for you to blow into a tube compared to the rest of crap he has gone through.

 

[Kreton]

Right, but if he is lying then...

then we should see some evidence.

But maybe Zimmerman beat his own head in. Broke his own nose. Screamed for help on the 911 tape and convinced eye witnesses to lie. That really seems reasonable to you?

 

[Jryan]

You can follow someone. As long as you dont get aggressive you are not breaking any laws. I addressed this already. Please read my other post.

Right, it is still an act of suspicion/hostility.

 

[Thunder]

You can follow someone. As long as you dont get aggressive you are not breaking any laws. I addressed this already. Please read my other post.

and that person you follow, may find your following to be threatening.

if you follow someone and approach them, expect to get a broken nose.

SYG allows this.

 

[Kreton]

Right, but even being addicted to certain drugs will alter your state of thinking. I mean, you just shot and killed someone; how much of an inconvenience is it for them to take some blood and for you to blow into a tube compared to the rest of crap he has gone through.

If I accused you of murder, and the police failed to take your blood, does that mean you are guilty?

 

[Kreton]

and that person you follow, may find your following to be threatening.

if you follow someone and approach them, expect to get a broken nose.

SYG allows this.

No it doesnt.

But even if it did, there is more proof that Martin approached Zimmerman not the other way around.

 

[Jryan]

then we should see some evidence.

But maybe Zimmerman beat his own head in. Broke his own nose. Screamed for help on the 911 tape and convinced eye witnesses to lie. That really seems reasonable to you?

I guess whether he is lying or telling the truth will come out in the inevitable trial. Unfortunately (and yes you have changed my opinion on this subject), no one is going to find him innocent; No one will find him innocent with the mob ready to lynch him. Martyrs are for the lose.

 

[Ockham]

Corey's team is now reinvestigating a case that the Sanford Police Department is accused of bungling. Possible police missteps include failing to administer a toxicology exam on Zimmerman, not impounding his car, and failing to contact key witnesses -- like Martin's girlfriend, who was talking to the teen by cell phone and heard most of the scuffle with Zimmerman unfold.

^^ That was in a response to someone else... ^^

Page 2: Trayvon Martin Shooter Says Teenager Went for His Gun - ABC News

Is that the TONS you claimed? That's the next last sentence in the article that was previously posted, from one new source. So the truth is, there is no TONS, there's one blurb identifying another team is going over the police work. No sources, no names, no dates, no specifics. No TONS.

It isn't defined that it should happen. I was under the assumption that we lived in a logical society...

It's not logical to force an alcohol/drug test unless there's probable cause to do so. That's covered under the Constitution's 4th Amendment and protects you from illegal search and seizure as well as being forced to partake in illegal drug/alcohol tests when there is no evidence of drugs or alcohol. That's not only logical, that's VERY logical.

If you are referring to the botched investigation, see above...

There was and is no evidence of a botched anything...

I'll wait...

And your waiting had gotten you an education. By my response, you now have your response to your question. See above regarding probable cause / 4th Amendment. Perhaps you should deal in more facts and less hyperbole. I'll let you look that word up now.... :lamo

 

[Jryan]

If I accused you of murder, and the police failed to take your blood, does that mean you are guilty?

You warped that a little. If you caught me standing by a dead body with a gun in my hand (and a bullet in the dead body), you think it is obvious we should drug test the deceased but not the shooter?

 

[buck]

Right, but even being addicted to certain drugs will alter your state of thinking. I mean, you just shot and killed someone; how much of an inconvenience is it for them to take some blood and for you to blow into a tube compared to the rest of crap he has gone through.

Who cares. It's not a standard thing to do. Claiming they didn't do every test you've ever heard of on CSI doesn't mean the police screwed up. They followed standard protocal - at least in regards to testing the victim and Zimm.

 

[Thunder]

No it doesnt.

But even if it did, there is more proof that Martin approached Zimmerman not the other way around.

who was following who?

who ADMITTED to the police to be following someone in a car and on foot?

who called that person they were following an asshole, who always gets away?

Zimmy's big mouth on the phone with 911 will destroy his case for SYG.

 

[Peter Ilyich]

Explain how Zimmerman being armed didn't put Martin in danger. Seriously, explain it. How did he go from "no danger of death or injury" to dead.

I get that you think you're making an intelligent point but you are not.

He went from no danger of death or injury to dead because he started smashing a person's head into the cement, giving that person cause to fear for his life, draw his gun, and shoot. Simply being armed doesn't automatically put people in danger of imminent death. Law enforcement officials walk around armed all day long and the overwhelming majority will never kill anyone and the extremely small minority who do will overwhelmingly kill people who are putting there or other lives in danger.

 

[Kreton]

I guess whether he is lying or telling the truth will come out in the inevitable trial. Unfortunately (and yes you have changed my opinion on this subject), no one is going to find him innocent; No one will find him innocent with the mob ready to lynch him. Martyrs are for the lose.

If this goes to trial, unless there is alot of evidence we have not seen, then I dont see him getting convicted. The law in this country is that you must be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Given the evidence that we know of, at a very very bare minimum there is reasonable doubt.

 

[What if...?]

Ah, I was trying to look around to find if Trayvon had injuries, I can't find any sites that say either way. Does anyone know if he had injuries also? I fin d it hard to believe that a person who is 100 lbs heavier than someone else loses a fight.

No autopsy results released.

Simon W. Moon has requested a copy of the report when it becomes available.

 

[Jryan]

It's not logical to force an alcohol/drug test unless there's probable cause to do so. That's covered under the Constitution's 4th Amendment and protects you from illegal search and seizure as well as being forced to partake in illegal drug/alcohol tests when there is no evidence of drugs or alcohol. That's not only logical, that's VERY logical.

Since you are playing nyeah nyeah you're wrong I'll only address the logical part of your post, which is a overstatement. Where is the warrant to search Zimmerman's car? Where is the warrant to take blood from Martin?

 

[Peter Ilyich]

and that person you follow, may find your following to be threatening.

if you follow someone and approach them, expect to get a broken nose.

SYG allows this.

It most certainly does not. You just continue to cite the law incorrectly despite it being shown to you.

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.