Witness: Martin Attacked Zimmerman (2)

[Kreton]

Thanks for the article, although it does claim a f'ed up police job:



As for the rest of the article, I'm starting to become skeptical. Why did the Florida state Governor higher Zimmerman's lawyer? To much high jingle (For you non-Bosh readers, High-Jingle means the higher powers have their fingers all in the investigation).

I think the police did botch the investigation. I am not going to argue that.

Them botching an investigation does not mean that Zimmerman is guilty of murder.

 

[Jryan]

Because if you don't get given a breathalyzer or drug test you must be guilty of whatever people want to accuse you of

No, that just added evidence to bad police work...

 

[dolphinocean]

If all what you are saying is *true*then why, the NO-GO from, the DA to even file? Given all the evidence?

Why? Among the litigators, the technical term of art for such pronouncements without certainty is "****ing useless bull****."

Here is the latest news uncovered from the special prosecutor:

The Miami Herald reports that the Sanford Police Department, at the conclusion of its Trayvon Martin investigation, recommended that the prosecutor file charges against the shooter George Zimmerman. Angela Corey, the special prosecutor now assigned to the case, confirmed the report:

“As far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: ‘We’re through with our investigation and here it is for you.’ The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in mid-stream.”

Trayvon Martin Case: Police Wanted Warrant To Arrest George Zimmerman, Prosecutor Says​

Why did the governor intervene in this case to prevent the impaneling of a grand jury?

We now know this:

Chris Serino, the lead detective on the case, expressed doubts around Zimmerman's account of the shooting, according to ABC News. Serino filed an affidavit on the night of the shooting in which he said that he was unconvinced of Zimmerman's version of events.

Trayvon Martin Case: Police Wanted Warrant To Arrest George Zimmerman, Prosecutor Says​

So, why was there appeared to have some sort of effort to prevent the police investigator to do his job to seek Zimmerman's arrest?

Could it be related to this:

Did George Zimmerman have help from his father, a retired judge, in clearing his name in three separate arrests?

That’s the question that’s being asked now that more information on Trayvon Martin’s 28-year-old killer is being revealed. Robert Zimmerman, a former Orange County magistrate judge, recently wrote a letter to The Orlando Sentinel defending his son, who’s been dragged through the mud for shooting the unarmed 17-year-old last month. In the letter, the senior Zimmerman asks people not to jump to conclusions and insists that his son didn’t follow the young boy home as he walked through their gated community. <snip>

According to a records search on George, he was previously arrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly, resisting an officer with violence — a felony charge that surely could have landed him in prison.

All three of those arrests, however, were mysteriously closed with no semblance of charges for the Florida resident. So how was someone with a violent past including that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun? Maybe that’s a question Robert Zimmerman should answer …

George Zimmerman, Son of a Retired Judge, Has 3 Closed Arrests | Rolling Out - Black News, Celebrity Videos, Entertainment, Business & Politics​

It was said that Zimmerman's father was a judge and his mother was a court's clerk. Did Zimmerman's parents used their influence to get him off the hook in this and other previous run ins of his with the law? It needs to be investigated.

 

[Peter Ilyich]

Ah, I was trying to look around to find if Trayvon had injuries, I can't find any sites that say either way. Does anyone know if he had injuries also? I fin d it hard to believe that a person who is 100 lbs heavier than someone else loses a fight.

The answer to that seems to be no. The police report cites all of Zimmerman's injuries and Martin's gunshot wound. It seems pretty unlikely they would choose to list only some wounds when it's an integral part of the investigation.

I don't know why you would find it that surprising. Zimmerman is short and obese. I don't know how much Michael Moore weighs exactly but I know who I would put my money on in a title fight with Manny Pacquiao.

 

[Kreton]

True, but I'd say the gun put him in danger. Saying that Martin wasn't at risk of death is kind of silly since HE DIED.

I can agree with that. Martin had every reason to believe his life was in danger with a guy following him. That would give Martin every right to A. Confront the guy VERBALLY B. Call the cops himself C. Leave the area.

Not D. Beat the crap out of a guy. D. Was never a legal option. Zimmerman made Martin nervous, but as far as evidence has shown, Zimmerman never threatened Martin or his safety. Never made an aggresive move that we know of.

 

[Kreton]

The answer to that seems to be no. The police report cites all of Zimmerman's injuries and Martin's gunshot wound. It seems pretty unlikely they would choose to list only some wounds when it's an integral part of the investigation.

I don't know why you would find it that surprising. Zimmerman is short and obese. I don't know how much Michael Moore weighs exactly but I know who I would put my money on in a title fight with Manny Pacquiao.

Moore would clearly win since he is fatter.

 

[buck]

he's not a watch captian of anything. he's a self-described, self-nominated "captian" of an unofficial 1-man neighborhood watch team. :lamo

Local 6: Is it true that he is a self imposed watch captain?
Oliver: "Not to my knowledge because he had a co- captain. I didn't come out in George's defense until I spoke with him and got his blessing to speak on his behalf and until I talked to him personally to know in my heart that George saved his own life that night."

 

[Jryan]

Moore would clearly win since he is fatter.

I'm not going to get into this because I don't know enough about fighting to debate the topic...

 

[Mach]

No law gives Trayvon the right to assault Zimmerman. Zimmerman was being assaulted and defended himself. That is perfectly fine. Or do you honestly believe that people are supposed to sit there and get beaten just because some kid has anger issues?

That's false. The very same law being used to defend Zimmerman, for the exact same reason, is precisely the same law that would have given Trayvon the right to assault Zimmerman...self defense.

 

[Thunder]

Local 6: Is it true that he is a self imposed watch captain?
Oliver: "Not to my knowledge because he had a co- captain. I didn't come out in George's defense until I spoke with him and got his blessing to speak on his behalf and until I talked to him personally to know in my heart that George saved his own life that night."

who are these faceless people you are quoting?

 

[Jryan]

If there is no reason to suspect him drinking such as typical slurred speech, acting drunk, smelling of alcohol, or the finding of open alcohol in his vehicle (otherwise known as probable cause), there would be no reason to give him a breathalyser / drug test. Wre in the Florida statues does it specify that anyone involved in a shooting is required to have a breathalyser / drug test?

You're making up a whole lot of **** and not backing any of it up with facts.

So you think that if someone shoots and kills someone, we should check the deceased only for the presence of drugs/alcohol?

 

[Peter Ilyich]

something tells me there's more to SYG than that.

A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use deadly force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first

Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yeah, I knew it.

You're still mistaken.

If you read a few paragraphs down you will see Florida's actual law:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.

But maybe the courts will use Wikipedia's interpretation ...

:roll:

 

[buck]

who are these faceless people you are quoting?

Oliver isn't faceless. He's been all over the news defending Zimm.

 

[Tettsuo]

The medical report and police has given reports of the injuries Zimmerman sustained. Your referencing Martins injuries. I'd love for you to show me something showing Martin had a broken collar bone, cuts on his arm, or anything else.

You mean the same police that didn't do a toxicology report on Zimmerman. The same police that didn't do any analysis on the weapon. The same police that didn't take pics of Zimmerman's injuries or contact the victim's family with the cellphone they had in custody. The same police that didn't run Zimmerman's priors and told the family his record was squeaky clean? Those police?

The police have confirmed it was him and a 13 year old kid confirmed that Zimmerman was on the ground getting beaten and screaming for help seconds before the shot. That is how I know its him. (no sarcasm)

The kid did not confirm Zimmerman was screaming as far as I know

Trayvon Martin Shooter Says Teenager Went for His Gun - ABC News
Read it.

If it's a concealed weapon, how did Martin know to go for it unless Zimmerman drew it? If Zimmerman drew the weapon and Martin rushed it, it would make a lot of sense no?

Read it. The police bungled the case. Whatever evidence that could have cleared or convicted Zimmerman is now lost due to their flippant manner of handling the case.

 

[Jryan]

That's false. The very same law being used to defend Zimmerman, for the exact same reason, is precisely the same law that would have given Trayvon the right to assault Zimmerman...self defense.

So does that mean I can't taunt someone in Florida and then proceed to kill them if they attack first?

 

[Kreton]

That's false. The very same law being used to defend Zimmerman, for the exact same reason, is precisely the same law that would have given Trayvon the right to assault Zimmerman...self defense.

No evidence that we have seen shows any indication that Zimmerman had threatened Martin in any way or even did anything aggressive. The evidence supports the notion that Martin choose to escalate the situation to violence. Following someone does not give them the right to beat you senseless.

 

[rocket88]

I can agree with that. Martin had every reason to believe his life was in danger with a guy following him. That would give Martin every right to A. Confront the guy VERBALLY B. Call the cops himself C. Leave the area.

Not D. Beat the crap out of a guy. D. Was never a legal option. Zimmerman made Martin nervous, but as far as evidence has shown, Zimmerman never threatened Martin or his safety. Never made an aggresive move that we know of.

If being in danger gives Zimmerman the right to shoot somebody, I'd say assault also qualifies as reasonable. It's significantly less than using a firearm.

I guess I just don't see the logic that "being in danger" justifies shooting someone, but not hitting them with a fist.

 

[Peter Ilyich]

True, but I'd say the gun put him in danger. Saying that Martin wasn't at risk of death is kind of silly since HE DIED.

It's not silly; you're just purposefully being obtuse.

 

[buck]

So you think that if someone shoots and kills someone, we should check the deceased only for the presence of drugs/alcohol?

That is actually standard.

“Except for DUIs, police cannot test suspects for drugs or alcohol, unless the accused demands or consents to it, or they get a warrant. Trayvon Martin was tested for drugs and alcohol because it is the normal procedure of autopsies to determine the exact cause of death or contributing factors of death,” the Washington Times said. “The so-called law enforcement and legal experts who claim Zimmerman should have been tested demonstrate they have no expertise.”

 

[rocket88]

The answer to that seems to be no. The police report cites all of Zimmerman's injuries and Martin's gunshot wound. It seems pretty unlikely they would choose to list only some wounds when it's an integral part of the investigation.

I don't know why you would find it that surprising. Zimmerman is short and obese. I don't know how much Michael Moore weighs exactly but I know who I would put my money on in a title fight with Manny Pacquiao.

God, Michael Moore now? Anybody we're missing? George Soros? FDR? Saddam Hussein?

 

[Jryan]

No evidence that we have seen shows any indication that Zimmerman had threatened Martin in any way or even did anything aggressive. The evidence supports the notion that Martin choose to escalate the situation to violence. Following someone does not give them the right to beat you senseless.

Stalking someone IMHO is an act of hostility. If you are walking down a road at night and someone is following you on the phone staring at you; wouldn't you become suspicious of this person? Under Zimmerman's logic, it is okay to suspect people wandering the streets at night as suspicious, but EVERYONE should know that he is the police captain...

 

[Ockham]

So you think that if someone shoots and kills someone, we should check the deceased only for the presence of drugs/alcohol?

You know, when you start answering my questions, I'll start answering yours.

- You claimed TONS of evidence of a botched police investigation. I asked for more information on the TONS, got zip.
- You then whined about how a shooter could not be tested for alcohol / drugs and I asked where in the Florida statutes it identifies that's a requirement. Got nothing again.
- I then claimed you're making stuff up without evidence... again no response.

I'll wait...

 

[What if...?]

But have you honestly seen any evidence that disproves his story? It is wrong to want to convict a guy of murder just because you don't like him. Listening to his 911 call you get an idea of his personality. I think he is a petty and overreacting person. I think he is likely harboring some racist thoughts. He thinks he is a cop or has some kind of authority. All of that makes him a ****ty person in my book, however, that does not mean he did not act in self defense.

The GFs statement contradicts Zimmermans.

 

[Jryan]

That is actually standard.

It shouldn't be IMHO... Being in an altered state almost always changes your fight or flight thinking.

 

[rocket88]

It's not silly; you're just purposefully being obtuse.

Explain how Zimmerman being armed didn't put Martin in danger. Seriously, explain it. How did he go from "no danger of death or injury" to dead.