Witness: Martin Attacked Zimmerman (2)

[MaggieD]

I just don't agree with you. Who and what nature Martin was is very relevant - as is the question of all the MASSIVE focus on his death as opposed to others.

I think it also is socially relevant. VERY. The parents decided to give up their privacy and start blaming everyone else. BUT I THINK the lessen should be then THIS is what can tragically happen if parents do NOT supervise. Do you think at that stage in Martin's troubled life - literally during his THIRD explusion, he should allowed to just go wander around (ie "4 mile walk?).

And a lesson for young people too. The more the get on the wrong side of things, the more they are endangering their future.

I have no problem with anyone posting out what they see wrong or bad about Zimmerman's past that tells about him - if it is true. Martin's death did not make him and his parents a saint. And since the parents - to GREAT degree not only wanted privacy but are running in front of cameras blaming everyone else, they also gave up that privacy. I would NOT describe him as "good" kid. Name anything, other than being alive, "good" that he did for anyone that you know of?

I guess we've reached another impasse in perspectives.

Oh, my childhood and youth is so unlike anyone's on this forum, your thread wouldn't work for me. I didn't have parents and I didn't have what anyone would call a childhood other than as a measurement of age. I think the first time I cried for anyone was only myself as a very young child, quickly learning crying was too dangerous. I think for anyone else? I was age 29. And I do admit that past gives me different perspectives that, actually, I mostly keep to myself - though it may not seem so nor would few believe it real anyway. I cannot cry for a 17 year old punk who - one way or the other - got himself over his head because his decisions were that of a punk no matter how measuring what happened. A good kid would have just gone on home.

Trying to micro-second to second figure who done-what in a fight denies the emotional irrationalities of ALL humans in a truly real life-death fight. "Man kills teen" means nothing to me. What, because Martin hadn't reached his 18 birthday at 6' 3". This was man kills man in my view. This was a fight between what appears to be emotionally and psychologically limited and immature young men who both found themselves way over their heads. When that happens, s...t happens.

But, you know, in your list if you HAD gotten over your head in a fist fight and it spun out of control, had got drunk and in that terrible things happened to you or others as a result, had got caught shoplifting and gone to jail, would you rage it was everyone else's fault in some poor-me and your parents rage how unjustly everyone is picking on little teenage you?

IF we DO take the view that Martin was just a kid, then just-a-kid should have dashed home - which he easily could have done - rather than "standing his ground" against a 250 adult figuring he could - whether or not he or Zimmerman threw the first punch. He "stood his ground" - if as his supporters claim happened - with the mentality of a man, not a little boy.

Maybe God can turn someone into a sinless "good" person after death. But I'm not God.

Finally, I think the portrayal of Trayvon Martin as a typical African-American teen and his parents as typical African-American parents is harmful to African-Americans in many ways. The lesson should be that parents MUST monitor their children's activities and especially if it is KNOWN the child or teen is spinning dangerously out of control.

The difference between an African-American, Latino and White teen spinning out of control is? Nothing. The difference between a 17 year old assaulting a 28 year old - and a 28 year old assaulting a 17 year old? Nothing. And this is what both concrete and a gun equally are - a deadly weapon.

Ok, I ramble. Who Martin was and who is parents are is relevant and lessons learned in it, rather than in niceties just declare them generic or ideal. His parents continue to proactively abandon privacy to condemn others. Therefore they are not immune to evaluation.

I will postulate, then, that you have a very different view of parenting that many of the rest of us -- that could account for your attack on his parents. And that's what your post was: an attack. I will also postulate that you aren't a parent and don't understand that parents can't be everywhere...that you can't take away the world from a kid because he gets suspended...that you can let him walk to the store at 7:30 on a Sunday evening...and not be considered low-down-dirty-dogs.

I'm beginning to get a whole new skew on this situation, though. Last night in Chicago, 2 blacks died and 11 were injured -- from gunshot wounds in their own neighborhoods...black-on-black violence. Where are the Sharptons and Jacksons and everybody else for these kids?? Oh, wait. It was blacks killing blacks. I guess they think that's okay. Off topic, but I couldn't wait to post it somewhere.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

"Nigga need a plant"

View attachment 67125110

To be fair, joko's evidence that Martin was dealing was that he had an empty baggie.

 

[dolphinocean]

You are instantly assuming he was doing what his parents say he was doing.

Yet his parents have proven to be liars with the whole school suspension "angelic" bull**** they keep putting out there about him.

When did the parents ever lied about his suspension in school? His father was straightforward on this but did not go into detail. Rightly so because it had no bearing on the night of the tragic event when he was killed. All this does is to dig dirt to demonize a dead victim who now cannot speak for himself about the event night he was killed.

With parents divorced and living far apart, this kid was truly angelic compared to most teenagers of his peers. How many teenager coming from a broken home do you see who harbor no ill towards his father's fiance and demonstrate a brotherly love for a toddler from his mother's competitor? How many teenagers have you encountered who would walk to the store in the rain at night just to get some candy for a little child who would be his step-brother?


Whatever "dirt" people tried to dig up so far are pale in comparison with most teenagers nowaday even those from well to do intact families.

More to the point, you evade the point that was brought up regarding Zimmerman's account of the event of confrontation that led to the fight. I also find that his story and the story his father put out sound so artificial that only gullible mind would buy it all.

Why would Trayvon's first question be "Do you have a problem?" when he didn't know what the problem was in the first place. It's even more absurd when Zimmerman said he simply responded "No." as if he was such a goody quiet school boy answering to a teacher's question. Did he not follow Trayvon to find out what he was up to? In his word, "up to no good".

In fact, the account given by Trayvon's girlfriend makes more sense. On the phone with his girlfirend, Trayvon told her he noticed a man followed him but didn't know why. So, when Zimmerman appeared close to him he asked the logical question, "Why are you following me".

And according to the girl friend, a man's voice said, "What are you doing here?" Which is precisely in line with what Zimmerman was trying to find out.

And the the girl friend recounted that something (the head piece of the phone?) fell to the ground and the phone went dead. Apparently, it appears that Trayvon didn't get the chance to reply to Zimmerman's question of what he was doing there because something happened that caused the phone to go dead.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

"Nigga need a plant"

View attachment 67125110

Link?

----

Still waiting for you to explain why it's suspect to walk .8 miles in the rain when I and millions of other people do it all the time.

 

[Caine]

To be fair, joko's evidence that Martin was dealing was that he had an empty baggie.

That is evidence he would be USING.

But someone contacting him saying he needed to talk business... followed up with "nigga needa plant" is quite curious. While not absolute evidence..... it is suggestive.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

That is evidence he would be USING..

No, that was the evidence that joko used to claim that he's a dealer which is what I said was ridiculous and used as an analogy for your ridiculous assumption that walking 2 miles means something other than Skittles and Iced Tea.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

That is evidence he would be USING.
But someone contacting him saying he needed to talk business... followed up with "nigga needa plant" is quite curious. While not absolute evidence..... it is suggestive.

Much more suggestive than an empty baggie. imho

Is that the kind of slang that kids are using these days?

I don't really know anybody in that age group and social circles to ask.

 

[ric27]

This case is volatile as it is, so, no need to get nasty here.

Aw c'mon man, didn't ya see, the smiley

What job? If the DA did not give up this case so quickly and tried to sweep it under the rug and let the killer walk free, nobody would be signing the petition or crying out loudly for justice. Instead of telling the family that the police is still working on the case, the police chief and the DA had already decided there was no case. So, that was the issue the public outcry was all about at the beginning.

The DA probably concluded that Zim's intention was not to kill but to stop the threat and lethal force was the quickest and most reliable means of eliminating the threat

Absolutely nothing wrong with that outcome

 

[dolphinocean]

Aw c'mon man, didn't ya see, the smiley



The DA probably concluded that Zim's intention was not to kill but to stop the threat and lethal force was the quickest and most reliable means of eliminating the threat

Absolutely nothing wrong with that outcome

I don't understand your logic here. Is that how a registered gun carrier supposed to act when dealing with an unarmed individual, especially a boy merely walking on the street? Shouldn't a gun carrier exercise commonsense not to provoke a confrontation especially at close enough range that would result in physical fight?

Nevertheless he did kill with just one shot right through the chest. That much for intention.

 

[Paratrooper]

I don't understand your logic here. Is that how a registered gun carrier supposed to act when dealing with an unarmed individual, especially a boy merely walking on the street? Shouldn't a gun carrier exercise commonsense not to provoke a confrontation especially at close enough range that would result in physical fight?

Nevertheless he did kill with just one shot right through the chest. That much for intention.

Some people are more easily "provoked" than others. I have seen fights break out simply because one person was "staring" at another.

How is the registered gun carrier supposed to know that the other person is unarmed? Wearing baggy clothes is fairly common and can easily conceal all manner of weapons.

 

[ric27]

I don't understand your logic here. Is that how a registered gun carrier supposed to act when dealing with an unarmed individual, especially a boy merely walking on the street? Shouldn't a gun carrier exercise commonsense not to provoke a confrontation especially at close enough range that would result in physical fight?

Nevertheless he did kill with just one shot right through the chest. That much for intention.

First. ... answer this? Why do you wear a seatbelt?

 

[Excon]

I actually love this video because the tough guy instigator gets his ass wooped in the end and has to have the guy he attacked tased off of him.

I liked it too.
It still has no pertinence to the incident at hand.

I saw nothing wrong with that guy correcting the other guy on which jail he was at...... He was doing a favor, and got attacked for it because some stupid **** thought he was going to play tough guy.

What he did shouldn't upset anyone... on the outside.
But you know what they say - When in Rome... But in this Rome, there are two sets of rules. The ones that your jailers say you have to abide by, and the unwritten rules, which if you value your life, you follow.
You do not butt into anyone else's business, even if you are best intentioned.

Let's say a person was to interfere with an inmate trying to kill another or even a jailer. Later to find out that it was a "hit" that he interfered with.
What do you think happens?
I hope you understand what I am presenting. I am not saying his actions are wrong on the outside or even in general. They were helpful.
It is the setting that needs to be considered.

 

[RDS]

Do you need to kill to stop someone from disarming you? It's funny someone with a gun acted in self-defence to kill against someone without a gun.

Zimmerman’s Brother Comes to His Defense: ‘He Stopped Someone from Disarming Him’

Read more: Zimmerman’s Brother Comes to His Defense: ‘He Stopped Someone from Disarming Him’ | NewsFeed | TIME.com

 

[joko104]

I will postulate, then, that you have a very different view of parenting that many of the rest of us -- that could account for your attack on his parents. And that's what your post was: an attack. I will also postulate that you aren't a parent and don't understand that parents can't be everywhere...that you can't take away the world from a kid because he gets suspended...that you can let him walk to the store at 7:30 on a Sunday evening...and not be considered low-down-dirty-dogs.

I'm beginning to get a whole new skew on this situation, though. Last night in Chicago, 2 blacks died and 11 were injured -- from gunshot wounds in their own neighborhoods...black-on-black violence. Where are the Sharptons and Jacksons and everybody else for these kids?? Oh, wait. It was blacks killing blacks. I guess they think that's okay. Off topic, but I couldn't wait to post it somewhere.

I am a parent, but infants. Personally I don't know what being a typical teenager is. Are you saying that all teenagers are thieves, truants, bullies, dopers, and vandals like Martin? None that I see or know. Not one. And that all parents let their teens wander the streets even if in trouble in almost every way and while on a third expulsion from school?

All parents are like that? Not any I know of. Thos I know of take away the car keys, the computer, cell phone and ground their teenager merely for getting an F on their report card or a note of incomplete work - until they raise that F to at least a C and all work is caught up. Which kind of parent are you or would you be?

If Martin's parents had being doing something, anything, they can tell what that was - and regardless in his situation letting go off alone at night for hours is BAD indifferent parenting in my opinion.

I'm going to point out what is obvious seemingly ONLY to me... WHAT IF ZIMMERMAN IS TELLING THE TRUTH?
1. He dialed 911 because Martin was acting definitely suspicious.
2. When Martin turned from angrily coming at Zimmerman is when he heard Zimmerman talking to police - running because it was illegal drugs he has shoved in his pants.
3. Martin did not follow, rather he only tried to get an angle - at the street - to see where Martin went to tell police.
4. Martin approached him, smashing him in the face so hard it broke his nose, knocking him down, and proceeding to pound Zimmerman's head into the concrete telling Zimmerman he was going to do.
5. Zimmerman did not die, because he had a gun and with a single shot saved his own life.

IF THAT IS THE ACTUAL TRUISM - WHY CRY FOR MARTIN? He was a violent wanna-be murderer. Why not cry for Zimmerman - THE VICTIM.
Not only a victim of the assault, but now 100, maybe 1000 times more victimized by the media, press, public, millionaire-rage TV actors, politicians and even the president. He life in danger and his reputation permanently destroyed an future possibly obliterated - for the offense of being the victim of a violent crime???

And if that is what happened that way and Martin's parents are blaming and raging at everyone else including Zimmerman, as Congress, media and all the rest join in their hatred of Zimmerman. WHY NOT HAVE SYMPATHY FOR THE VICTIM'S FAMILY - so endangered they have had to flee their home and go into hide.

Why?

Is it because the media has SOOOOO instilled hatred towards Zimmerman and praise of Martin that truth is really a nuisance to ignored? Justifies HATRED and total public and institutional denial of "innocent until proven guilty?"

Is it because Martin is a fat Latino (often posted on the forum) and Martin a sleek cool teenager that even looked like he could be Obama's son?

IF Zimmerman's story IS the truth, this is 100% glorifying the wanna-be murderer and glorifying his family, while deliberately ongoingly maximizing the harm and lose to the actual victim and his family? I find this so outrageous to defy words and if there is racism it is the required love affair towards a punk and possibly wanna-be murderand his parents on the attack - and hatred of a fat Latino guy because he is a fat Latino who killed the black criminal who is cool only by virtue of being black and not fat?

The media has so poisoned this that even if Zimmerman and his family are the real victims no one cares. Rather, they just think Zimmerman should not be arrested and then we'll all continue to cry along with the Martin's over the lose of their murderous teenage punk they raised.

If Zimmerman was the victim, where are the tears for him and his family for all they continue to worseningly suffer? I guess fat Latinos never deserve any.

 

[apdst]

No, that was the evidence that joko used to claim that he's a dealer which is what I said was ridiculous and used as an analogy for your ridiculous assumption that walking 2 miles means something other than Skittles and Iced Tea.

Two miles? A town of 53,000 people and he had to walk two miles to the nearest store?

Something not exactly adding up, there.

 

[apdst]

I will postulate, then, that you have a very different view of parenting that many of the rest of us -- that could account for your attack on his parents. And that's what your post was: an attack. I will also postulate that you aren't a parent and don't understand that parents can't be everywhere...that you can't take away the world from a kid because he gets suspended...that you can let him walk to the store at 7:30 on a Sunday evening...and not be considered low-down-dirty-dogs.

Not only can I take my kids's world away, because they got suspended, but I have and I will. My kids, regardless of age, do not hoof it anywhere, after dark.

I'm beginning to get a whole new skew on this situation, though. Last night in Chicago, 2 blacks died and 11 were injured -- from gunshot wounds in their own neighborhoods...black-on-black violence. Where are the Sharptons and Jacksons and everybody else for these kids?? Oh, wait. It was blacks killing blacks. I guess they think that's okay. Off topic, but I couldn't wait to post it somewhere.

You're just now figuring all this out? I know you're smarter than that.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

here's the 7-eleven



1101 Rinehart Rd Sanford, FL 32771 - Google Maps

• 0.9 mi, 3 mins
  Rinehart Rd and Oregon Ave

• Rinehart Rd and Oregon Ave

Driving directions to Retreat View Cir
This route has restricted usage or private roads. - more info »





1101 Rinehart Rd
Sanford, FL 32771
[TABLE="class: ddr_steps"]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 1. Head east on Rinehart Rd toward Towne Center Blvd[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 0.4 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 2. Take the 2nd right onto Oregon Ave[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 0.3 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 3. Turn right onto Twin TreesRestricted usage road[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 135 ft[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 4. Take the 1st left onto Retreat View CirRestricted usage road[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 0.2 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: ddwpt-table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: ddw-addr"]Retreat View Cir[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[MaggieD]

Not only can I take my kids's world away, because they got suspended, but I have and I will. My kids, regardless of age, do not hoof it anywhere, after dark.

I won't argue about "taking your kids' world away...." because I'd be taking away that which mattered the most myself. If you don't let your 17-year-old children walk after dark? I can't dispute that either except to say that your style would be most unusual.

 

[apdst]

here's the 7-eleven



1101 Rinehart Rd Sanford, FL 32771 - Google Maps

• 0.9 mi, 3 mins
  Rinehart Rd and Oregon Ave

• Rinehart Rd and Oregon Ave

Driving directions to Retreat View Cir
This route has restricted usage or private roads. - more info »





1101 Rinehart Rd
Sanford, FL 32771
[TABLE="class: ddr_steps"]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 1. Head east on Rinehart Rd toward Towne Center Blvd[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 0.4 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 2. Take the 2nd right onto Oregon Ave[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 0.3 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 3. Turn right onto Twin TreesRestricted usage road[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 135 ft[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: dir-step-grad"]
[TD="class: dir-ds-icon"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-ds-desc"] 4. Take the 1st left onto Retreat View CirRestricted usage road[/TD]
[TD="class: dir-cb-cbicon"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: dir-step-separator dir-step-separatorbg"][/TD]
[TD="class: sdist dir-step-separatorbg"] 0.2 mi[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: ddwpt-table"]
[TR]
[TD="class: ddw-addr"]Retreat View Cir[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And that's from Martin's house?

 

[apdst]

I won't argue about "taking your kids' world away...." because I'd be taking away that which mattered the most myself. If you don't let your 17-year-old children walk after dark? I can't dispute that either except to say that your style would be most unusual.

I'm old school.

 

[MaggieD]

I am a parent, but infants. Personally I don't know what being a typical teenager is. Are you saying that all teenagers are thieves, truants, bullies, dopers, and vandals like Martin? None that I see or know. Not one. And that all parents let their teens wander the streets even if in trouble in almost every way and while on a third expulsion from school?

All parents are like that? Not any I know of. Thos I know of take away the car keys, the computer, cell phone and ground their teenager merely for getting an F on their report card or a note of incomplete work - until they raise that F to at least a C and all work is caught up. Which kind of parent are you or would you be?

Oh, forgot to mention: I used to forge my report cards, too.

If Martin's parents had being doing something, anything, they can tell what that was - and regardless in his situation letting go off alone at night for hours is BAD indifferent parenting in my opinion.

What hours? What evidence do you have that he wasn't just walking to-and-from a store that was 2 miles away?

I'm going to point out what is obvious seemingly ONLY to me... WHAT IF ZIMMERMAN IS TELLING THE TRUTH?
1. He dialed 911 because Martin was acting definitely suspicious.
2. When Martin turned from angrily coming at Zimmerman is when he heard Zimmerman talking to police - running because it was illegal drugs he has shoved in his pants.
3. Martin did not follow, rather he only tried to get an angle - at the street - to see where Martin went to tell police.
4. Martin approached him, smashing him in the face so hard it broke his nose, knocking him down, and proceeding to pound Zimmerman's head into the concrete telling Zimmerman he was going to do.
5. Zimmerman did not die, because he had a gun and with a single shot saved his own life.

IF THAT IS THE ACTUAL TRUISM - WHY CRY FOR MARTIN? He was a violent wanna-be murderer. Why not cry for Zimmerman - THE VICTIM.
Not only a victim of the assault, but now 100, maybe 1000 times more victimized by the media, press, public, millionaire-rage TV actors, politicians and even the president. He life in danger and his reputation permanently destroyed an future possibly obliterated - for the offense of being the victim of a violent crime???

And if that is what happened that way and Martin's parents are blaming and raging at everyone else including Zimmerman, as Congress, media and all the rest join in their hatred of Zimmerman. WHY NOT HAVE SYMPATHY FOR THE VICTIM'S FAMILY - so endangered they have had to flee their home and go into hide.

Why?

Is it because the media has SOOOOO instilled hatred towards Zimmerman and praise of Martin that truth is really a nuisance to ignored? Justifies HATRED and total public and institutional denial of "innocent until proven guilty?"

Is it because Martin is a fat Latino (often posted on the forum) and Martin a sleek cool teenager that even looked like he could be Obama's son?

IF Zimmerman's story IS the truth, this is 100% glorifying the wanna-be murderer and glorifying his family, while deliberately ongoingly maximizing the harm and lose to the actual victim and his family? I find this so outrageous to defy words and if there is racism it is the required love affair towards a punk and possibly wanna-be murderand his parents on the attack - and hatred of a fat Latino guy because he is a fat Latino who killed the black criminal who is cool only by virtue of being black and not fat?

The media has so poisoned this that even if Zimmerman and his family are the real victims no one cares. Rather, they just think Zimmerman should not be arrested and then we'll all continue to cry along with the Martin's over the lose of their murderous teenage punk they raised.

If Zimmerman was the victim, where are the tears for him and his family for all they continue to worseningly suffer? I guess fat Latinos never deserve any.

What I find interesting here is that you assume anyone who speaks up for Martin believes Zimmerman broke the law. That is not my position. You've probably forgotten, but I support Zimmerman...until and unless hard evidence can disprove his version of events.

But believing in Zimmerman until then does not mean that I personally have to villify Martin or his parents. Maybe that's the way you approach differences, but I don't.

This is a tragedy. There are no winners. There are two losers. One of them is dead. And maybe? Just maybe? Both of them were right.

 

[dolphinocean]

Some people are more easily "provoked" than others. I have seen fights break out simply because one person was "staring" at another.

How is the registered gun carrier supposed to know that the other person is unarmed? Wearing baggy clothes is fairly common and can easily conceal all manner of weapons.

Sure, some people are more easily "provoked" than others, but don't they both get arrested and both charged for fighting unless it can be proven that one initated the fight unprovoked and the other simply defending himself?

A responsible gun carrier shouldn't be provoking an incident that led to a fight knowing a gun is involved on his part whether he knows or not the other party is armed. I don't own a gun but don't they have some kind of training or education for being responsible gun owner? Do tell me if you know.

 

[dolphinocean]

First. ... answer this? Why do you wear a seatbelt?

Do you mean wearing a seatbelt as in the car? If so, no, I don't wear a seatbelt.

But, what does this gotta do with this case?

 

[Top Cat]

Self defense is just that - self defense. It does not equate fear.

No. Guns help people feel safer. Alas, reduction of fear.

 

[joko104]

Oh, forgot to mention: I used to forge my report cards, too.



What hours? What evidence do you have that he wasn't just walking to-and-from a store that was 2 miles away?



What I find interesting here is that you assume anyone who speaks up for Martin believes Zimmerman broke the law. That is not my position. You've probably forgotten, but I support Zimmerman...until and unless hard evidence can disprove his version of events.

But believing in Zimmerman until then does not mean that I personally have to villify Martin or his parents. Maybe that's the way you approach differences, but I don't.

This is a tragedy. There are no winners. There are two losers. One of them is dead. And maybe? Just maybe? Both of them were right.

Maggie, I'm not pointing at you with my criticism. You seem one of those actually thinking about facts, witnesses and ethics collectively and in a sense let it all lead to the conclusions they do as they unfold and evolve. Many if not most are not.

It is at the media, the talking heads and the politicians - and those who just toe step along.

On report cards... I can't speak for myself at all, never had one, but I personally saw and heard this as I was present recently...

A mother and father were going out of town and asked if a 22 year old mother of an infant they trusted if their 17 year old daughter could stay with her, telling her the daughter's schedule, plans and requirements. The 17 year old thought here parents should trust to stay alone just 3 nights. Didn't work.
That Friday after school, she arrived and said she was helding out to her friend's house. This had been preapproved. "Where is your bank deposit slip (teen to make a small deposit for college spending money every Friday - part of her pay for a PT job her required to keep) and your report card that came out today because you know I'm suppose to call your parents with the results?"
The teen replied, "oh, I figured I'd do those Monday when my parents are back and give to them. I'll call them with my grades"
22 year old surrogate mother: "No, you are going to hurry back to school and get your report card stopping by the automatic deposit machine at the bank and bring me the deposit slip and your report card."
Teenager: "But I'll be late!"
Surrogate Mom: "The sooner you go..."
Teenager: (under her breathe but enough to want to be heard) "You're just like my Mom!"
Back with both, the teenager gave it to her, saying she was now leaving.
Surrogate Mom: "No, your mother said you are required to have dinner with the family, so you have to eat dinner with us first."
Teenager: "Grrrrrrr! None of my friend's parents act like this and you're not my Mom."
Surrogate mother: "I am today."
Finally the 17 year old got to go

That teenager is probably right, her friends don't have parents like that.

She has never been in trouble in school or with the law. She only broke curfew once - by 15 minutes - and lost her car keys for a month for it. She is a high honors student with awards a foot thick, a record number of hours of volunteer community service, and in many school organizations and clubs. Many friends. And now a full scholarship to a pretigious and advanced university.

None of her friends have that. But then none of her friends have her mother and father.

With three explusions and on the 3rd, what in the world was his father thinking of letting him walk the streets at night alone - whether or not to the store? A candy and freedom reward for being expelled a 3rd time? He maybe thought he had great parents too. The 22 year old is the pied piper for little children, everyone knows it. She said "parenting is not a popularity contest. The goal is not to get your child to like you. It is to prepare them to enter adult life as prepared and capable of success as possible. They won't always like it or you for doing so. To many parents mistakenly try to be their child's friend and that is a terrible mistake. Instead, be a parent at all times." She added, "it starts the day your child is born. The relationship is established from the start and consistently maintained. Oh, and within all that, you love and protect them with your whole heart and mind."