Will the presidential election lead to civil unrest?

[EMNofSeattle]

Trump has been doing everything he can to undermine the mail-in voting process because he knows that it's likely many Democratic votes will be dependent on it. Then if he gets his "red mirage" (the idea that more Republicans will vote in person than Democrats, and therefore on election night the results will be skewed in Trump's favor), he will relentlessly attack the election offices still counting their mail-in ballots and insist that "TRUE PATRIOTS don't let the MARXIST ANTIFA TERRORISTS" steal the election.

I mean it is true, Antifa terrorists should not be allowed to win even legitimately.

If people who believe in destruction of all forms of personal liberty who openly call for the deaths of political opponents win then it’s time for authoritian dictatorship and re-education of Antifa

 

[rahl]

Where are the links? Did you create your own study based on the FBI crime data and police shooting statistics? What was your methodology for determining proportionality in your study? Has it been peer-reviewed yet?

The numbers clearly show blacks are not killed disproportionately to whites. I’m sorry if that conflicts with your ideology, but it won’t change reality.
Blacks are only 13% of the population but commit over 50% of the violent crime so will statistically have more police encounters than whites, yet whites are a still killed by police in greater numbers than blacks.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

 

[Robertinfremont]

At Pentagon, fears grow that Trump will pull military into election unrest

The president's raised deep anxiety among military and Defense Department leaders, who insist they will do all they can to keep armed forces out of the elections. Officials say top generals could resign if he orders the military into the...

www.seattletimes.com

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump gave officials no solace Wednesday and Thursday when he again refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power no matter who wins the election, and Thursday, he doubled down by saying he was not sure the election could be “honest.”

“I believe deeply in the principle of an apolitical U.S. military,” Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in written answers to questions from House lawmakers released last month. “In the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, by law, U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes, not the U.S. military. I foresee no role for the U.S. armed forces in this process.”

But that has not stopped an intensifying debate in the military about its role should a disputed election lead to civil unrest.

This controversy is not of Trump making, it is made up by the Democrats media.

Trump has ballot concerns but I do not. i know far more millions plan to vote for Trump than he has ever had vote for him in the past.

 

[Robertinfremont]

In Sweden they are talking about that US is risking civil war due to Trumps agitation and encouragement of violence, provocation and antagonism

Our former prime minister (Conservative party in Sweden) has written a book on USA and Trump that is very scary.

Here are some facts on the writer:

The first election after he had become his parties leader the results was the party's best since Sweden became a democracy. He is the first conservative prime minister to sit in office for eight years in a row. Since he resigned his party lost more than 10% of their voters. He also kept a four-party coalition together for all his time as party leader, which gave the conservatives a stable majority in Sweden, for the first time. After he resign the coalition has broken apart.



Here are some of the things he says in his book:

Trump is about to dismantle democracy in the United States, and is moving the country towards dictatorship. He warns that there are no longer forces within the Republican Party that can act as a counterweight to the president. Four more years will not just be "more of the same". Trump will continue the dismantling of American democracy


"He has shown that he does not respect the rule of law, he attacks the judiciary, he criticizes judges, he harasses witnesses, he does not respect free speech, he does not respect free and independent media, he attacks individual journalists. It is quite clear that he mixes his own and the family's private finances with the public sector,"

The damage done to America by past Democrats is being fixed is all Trump is doing.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Tangmo:

The sitting president has amply demonstrated his indifference to constitutional limits on his powers and has repeatedly over-reached in circumventing obstacles to achieving his desired policies. Now that same president is, by omission, threatening the democratic and peaceful transition of power should he not be reelected as POTUS in November 2020. Mr. Trump does not care a fig for the US Constitution (except perhaps the 2nd Amendment for cynical political reasons). There are many ways he can directly or indirectly (by proxies) interfere with a federal election and while the Senate and the Attorney General support him without reservation and while the Justice Department is unwilling to prosecute him, there are no real constraints on his power. This is because the Rule of Law is broken in the USA with respect to constraining the powers of the president. Power trumps the Rule of Law unless a society and its state institutions are willing to exercise coercive force to maintain the Rule of Law. That willingness to use countervailing legal force to constrain the president does not exist in America right now so the Rule of Law is a hollow fiction and the US Constitution is a lame-duck, historical document in the face of presidential power.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Trump has to a huge degree mimicked the presidency of Obama. Some claimed back then Obama would never step down. But he did. Trump will do the peoples bidding.

Obama would tell his loving cult followers, "I as president do not have authority to do that." And he followed up by lying and doing what he said he could not do per the constitution.

I believe you Democrats are going to be as shocked this time as you were last time.

 

[Robertinfremont]

I agree. I agree his supporters would argue he did nothing illegal. He has Christian supporters who think he is doing the will of god, and would support him defeating Biden by any means possible for the greater good.

As for the military counter action, why are you so convinced of that? Do you have
inside information?

Apparently, the courts could make rulings, giving Trump the presidency. Senate can remove and impeach him, but I have never heard of this military removal option. How is it even legal? Trump would just accuse the military of treason.

I have heard reports of commanders in the White House saying he is unfit, and discussing some form of removal based on unfitness. I assumed it meant going public against him. What am I missing?

thanks

This same line of attack was used against Obama and failed.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

The numbers clearly show blacks are not killed disproportionately to whites. I’m sorry if that conflicts with your ideology, but it won’t change reality.
Blacks are only 13% of the population but commit over 50% of the violent crime so will statistically have more police encounters than whites, yet whites are a still killed by police in greater numbers than blacks.

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2024 | Statista

The trend of fatal police shootings in the U.S. seems to only be increasing each year, with 1,097 civilians, 225 of whom were Black, killed by police in 2022.

www.statista.com

Since you don't have a link to your study, I can't really read it, so I find your argument less than compelling. It sounds like you are quite confident that you can disprove the entire body of extensive research that has been done on the subject though, so once you get your study published, I'm sure it will make quite a stir in academic circles. I look forward to reading it when that happens.

 

[rahl]

Since you don't have a link to your study, I can't really read it, so I find your argument less than compelling. It sounds like you are quite confident that you can disprove the entire body of extensive research that has been done on the subject though, so once you get your study published, I'm sure it will make quite a stir in academic circles. I look forward to reading it when that happens.

Uh, you quoted the link that was in my post.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I mean it is true, Antifa terrorists should not be allowed to win even legitimately.

If people who believe in destruction of all forms of personal liberty who openly call for the deaths of political opponents win then it’s time for authoritian dictatorship and re-education of Antifa

Nobody wants your fascist garbage on American soil. Take it to some place that cares, like Russia.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Nobody wants your fascist garbage on American soil. Take it to some place that cares, like Russia.

I don’t know you can say nobody wants that. Even colloquially.

The left certainly is imposing fascism on America as we speak

 

[Tangmo]

i did see that 500 ex military officers and national security officers came out to support Biden. It doesn’t seem to be a topic many civilians Discuss or focus on. Is that something military members take very seriously? I would assume so.

The place this country is in, is very sad.

Several things indeed.

The large number of Americans don't like retired generals and retired admirals picking sides and endorsing a candidate for Potus. Americans don't want to hear it, don't want to talk about which bunch of retired flag officers are right and wrong or why. Americans just prefer that these guys and gals sit down and pipe down. A number of retired flag officers are the same way, ie, don't endorse.

Trump came first this time with 240 retired flag officers (general or admiral between 1 star to 4 stars) endorsing him yet Trump's very short on civilian national defense and security officers who have served at DoD, State, DoJ, CIA, DIA and so on. So Biden released his list of more than 200 retired flag officers plus a swarm of civilians who do national security and defense to include civilians who served in Republican administrations.

I don't like the bean counting endorsement contest either as I prefer the single issue retired flag officer only who has one issue he sees as both vitally important and urgent. Adm. ret. McRaven best exemplifies this when he said Trump calling the media the "enemy of the people" is the "greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime," which says Trump is worse than bin Laden who McRaven stuck a trident into in Abbottabad. Mattis' focused issue is division and PutinTrump the divider. And so on in respect of retired flag officers.

Also, when we look at DP and social media too there's nothing to argue or precious little to argue. PutinTrumpRowers consciously and with a great discipline go mum on bad news to Trump on things military. Their strategy is that the less said about it the better. That is, out of sight out of mind.

The Rowers said virtually nothing about the PutinTrumpRowers bounty on American troops abroad. The Rowers just would not respond. When the Rowers did go to a thread they squeaked quickly then fled never or rarely to return.

Another strategy is to make inane comments that make debate impossible. A number of Rowers are notorious for attacking libruls in every post and never mentioning Trump except for the inane TDS. The glaring exception is McCain the Russia Nemesis who the PutinTrumpRowers are always pumped up to try to assail, denounce, condemn; delegitimize, despite their being miserable failures at this.

Ninety-nine percent of Americans don't serve in the armed forces which means they haven't anything to say or care of generals and admirals -- or anything to know to say about 'em. Seven percent of Americans are veterans while the bulk of these veterans are veterans only officially rather than living as professional veterans, ie, rightwingers who own the veterans groups and organizations save for many of the most recent and small newer ones.

DP has a significant number of veterans and some active duty posters, yet many of the veterans don't think as veterans or military types, while the retired lifer veterans are the professional veterans, ie, rightwingers, whether s/he belongs to a veterans organization or not.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I don’t know you can say nobody wants that. Even colloquially.

The left certainly is imposing fascism on America as we speak

You wouldn't know what fascism was if the secret police kicked down your doors and arrested you for crimes against the state.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You wouldn't know what fascism was if the secret police kicked down your doors and arrested you for crimes against the state.

I expect to be arrested for deadnaming Bruce Jenner within the next ten years. I think it’s a 50/50 whether I get guilliotined by Antifa already

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Uh, you quoted the link that was in my post.

Oh, was that what you were talking about? You must have misread it then. This is what it says in your own link:

"Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity"

 

[Integrityrespec]

You really need to work on your poll creating skills.

Your thread title refers to civil unrest. You refers to peaceful transition. And then you drag the military into it.

Tell you what...here's my take on possible civil unrest: If Trump loses, there will be no civil unrest. If Trump wins, the Dems, Trump haters and anarchists will royally **** up the country in retaliation. It's as simple as that.

Democrats claim Trump wants to stop mail in balloting, there has been proof of instances of problems with the process. Republicans say voting in person in the most protected form of insuring an accurate vote. Who is trying to manipulate the outcome. Mail in voting has issues.

 

[Evilroddy]

Trump has to a huge degree mimicked the presidency of Obama. Some claimed back then Obama would never step down. But he did. Trump will do the peoples bidding.

Obama would tell his loving cult followers, "I as president do not have authority to do that." And he followed up by lying and doing what he said he could not do per the constitution.

I believe you Democrats are going to be as shocked this time as you were last time.

Robertinfremont:

Mr. Trump is not a Republican nor a Conservative. He is a populist demagogue who will reverse his policies for political reasons and political expediency at the drop of a hat. How you and others cannot see the damage he and his ever-changing coterie of senior supporters are doing to your republic is beyond my ken.

This is not a Democrat/Republican issue. This is the tearing down of the institutions of political stability and trust in the most powerful and nuclear armed country in the world. Multiple states of apprehended insurrection are playing out in your country from both the left and right sides of the political spectrum and coming up in reaction is a greater and wider acceptance for authoritarianism to maintain at least the appearance of a preferential status quo which serves the interests of various factions of elites struggling to control the American ship of state. This factional and political civil war is now on the verge of tipping over into real, nation-wide violence and Mr. Trump, far from providing a stabilising hand to hold back the capsizing of the ship of state, is furiously rocking the boat for any small short-term advantage he can snatch at. He is a fool surrounded by a political solar system of very dangerous men and women who will tear your country apart in pursuit of their own happiness.

I am not a Democrat, nor am I a Republican. I am an anti-militarist, fiscal conservative and begrudgingly/cautious social progressive from another country than yours. Because I am looking in from outside of the fish-bowl and have no political stake in your country's internal politics, I can see President Trump's recklessness and brinksmanship for what they are - foolish and profoundly destructive acts of short-sighted opportunism which threaten to plunge your republic into chaos. He is pitting citizens against citizens and factions against factions for his own gain, fracturing the societal buttresses which are holding your nation together and stripping away the veneer of civil society to reveal the brutish and greedy struggle for accumulating wealth and power at the expence of fellow Americans. He is converting the American commonwealth into a bloody, Darwinian arena for egomaniacal political gladiators to die or rise and conquer America, rather than serve it. Donald Trump is quite literally a menace to society. Why any sane person of any political bent would want him reelected is beyond my understanding, unless they just want to watch America burn.

Cheers, be well and may you live in interesting times.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

I expect to be arrested for deadnaming Bruce Jenner within the next ten years. I think it’s a 50/50 whether I get guilliotined by Antifa already

To the authoritarians in our midst:

This bizarre preoccupation with "left-wing fascism" is as amusing as it is wrong. But take heart. It is difficult for one to be guilliotined when one has no descernable head/brain and seems to be all arse; so your fears may be unnecessary, good despots-for-be!

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Robertinfremont:

Mr. Trump is not a Republican nor a Conservative. He is a populist demagogue who will reverse his policies for political reasons and political expediency at the drop of a hat. How you and others cannot see the damage he and his ever-changing coterie of senior supporters are doing to your republic is beyond my ken.

This is not a Democrat/Republican issue. This is the tearing down of the institutions of political stability and trust in the most powerful and nuclear armed country in the world. Multiple states of apprehended insurrection are playing out in your country from both the left and right sides of the political spectrum and coming up in reaction is a greater and wider acceptance for authoritarianism to maintain at least the appearance of a preferential status quo which serves the interests of various factions of elites struggling to control the American ship of state. This factional and political civil war is now on the verge of tipping over into real, nation-wide violence and Mr. Trump, far from providing a stabilising hand to hold back the capsizing of the ship of state, is furiously rocking the boat for any small short-term advantage he can snatch at. He is a fool surrounded by a political solar system of very dangerous men and women who will tear your country apart in pursuit of their own happiness.

I am not a Democrat, nor am I a Republican. I am an anti-militarist, fiscal conservative and begrudgingly/cautious social progressive from another country than yours. Because I am looking in from outside of the fish-bowl and have no political stake in your country's internal politics, I can see President Trump's recklessness and brinksmanship for what they are - foolish and profoundly destructive acts of short-sighted opportunism which threaten to plunge your republic into chaos. He is pitting citizens against citizens and factions against factions for his own gain, fracturing the societal buttresses which are holding your nation together and stripping away the veneer of civil society to reveal the brutish and greedy struggle for accumulating wealth and power at the expence of fellow Americans. He is converting the American commonwealth into a bloody, Darwinian arena for egomaniacal political gladiators to die or rise and conquer America, rather than serve it. Donald Trump is quite literally a menace to society. Why any sane person of any political bent would want him reelected is beyond my understanding, unless they just want to watch America burn.

Cheers, be well and may you live in interesting times.
Evilroddy.

You ought to write up the screenplay and construct the script and find out if it sells.

 

[Evilroddy]

You ought to write up the screenplay and construct the script and find out if it sells.

Robertinfremont:

Deny facts if you will. If the tipping point is reached before or during the election, then the bankruptcy of Trump support wIll be revealed for all to see. If it comes after the election then hurt feelings may blind some blinkered eyes. Time will prove me right about Donald J Trump, the modern-day Nero.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Tangmo]

I mean it is true, Antifa terrorists should not be allowed to win even legitimately.

If people who believe in destruction of all forms of personal liberty who openly call for the deaths of political opponents win then it’s time for authoritian dictatorship and re-education of Antifa

Kindly be advised that whenever the time comes Trump croaks he will not get an official state funeral.

As far as an official state funeral is concerned, only a genuine Potus gets one.

That eliminates Donald John Trump.

Completely, entirely, absolutely. Your Trump who is your fellow fascist will die alone in his prison cell. And be flushed down the prison shatter.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Robertinfremont:

Deny facts if you will. If the tipping point is reached before or during the election, then the bankruptcy of Trump support wIll be revealed for all to see. If it comes after the election then hurt feelings may blind some blinkered eyes. Time will prove me right about Donald J Trump, the modern-day Nero.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Deny you have talent enough to write up a screenplay?

 

[Jredbaron96]

I expect to be arrested for deadnaming Bruce Jenner within the next ten years. I think it’s a 50/50 whether I get guilliotined by Antifa already

What a fascinating fantasy world of oppression you live in.

 

[rahl]

Oh, was that what you were talking about? You must have misread it then. This is what it says in your own link:

"Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity"

but not disproportionately as you claimed. They commit over 50% of the violent crime and statistically have more encounters with law enforcement because of that, and they are STILL not killed by police as much as whites.

 

[VySky]

At Pentagon, fears grow that Trump will pull military into election unrest

The president's raised deep anxiety among military and Defense Department leaders, who insist they will do all they can to keep armed forces out of the elections. Officials say top generals could resign if he orders the military into the...

www.seattletimes.com

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump gave officials no solace Wednesday and Thursday when he again refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power no matter who wins the election, and Thursday, he doubled down by saying he was not sure the election could be “honest.”

“I believe deeply in the principle of an apolitical U.S. military,” Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in written answers to questions from House lawmakers released last month. “In the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, by law, U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes, not the U.S. military. I foresee no role for the U.S. armed forces in this process.”

But that has not stopped an intensifying debate in the military about its role should a disputed election lead to civil unrest.

And the Hillary Dem machine is advising Biden not to concede under ANY circumstances.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

but not disproportionately as you claimed. They commit over 50% of the violent crime and statistically have more encounters with law enforcement because of that, and they are STILL not killed by police as much as whites.

You didn't link to the statistics for law enforcement encounters by race, or to a peer-reviewed study with a transparent methodology for evaluating proportionality on that basis. I think you started with a conclusion and then looked for some numbers that you could piece together in your head to justify that conclusion.

If you want to contend that the entire body of research on this subject is wrong, I want to see a peer-reviewed study. I'm not going to take your word for it that you are simply smarter than all of academia.