Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

[Cephus]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Something will be proven. Trump does not act like an innocent man. Just wondering what will stick.
You seem to think that it's very easy to get the FBI to do an investigation like this.
It's not at all easy. They have/had something very concerning or they wouldn't have started it.

How do you know something will be proven? Because you want it? Or because there is actually any evidence that wrongdoing too place? That's the thing. "Orange Man Bad" is rampant on the left. They want Trump to be guilty of something, even if there isn't any evidence that he is. Rational people follow the evidence to a conclusion. Irrational people adopt a conclusion they like and wish there was evidence to support it. Which side are you on?

 

[The Mark]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Yes, I know we've had this poll several times. This is just an updated version since you might have changed your mind as time has gone on. It seems like Mueller's report is about ready to be released soon, so....

Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

If so, Trump would definitely need to be impeached immediately. If not, then what?

Make your predictions and comment on what you think will happen after it's released based on what you think will be found.

Trump should already have been impeached, we don't need anything Mueller finds to do that, he has done plenty worthy of such without that.

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

How do you know something will be proven? Because you want it? Or because there is actually any evidence that wrongdoing too place? That's the thing. "Orange Man Bad" is rampant on the left. They want Trump to be guilty of something, even if there isn't any evidence that he is. Rational people follow the evidence to a conclusion. Irrational people adopt a conclusion they like and wish there was evidence to support it. Which side are you on?

Because there is so much public information that points to this, it's only logical that the information that we don't know yet is even more damning.

Trump's own lawyer contradicted Trump's claim that he had no knowledge of the Trump Tower meeting with a Russian operative. In fact, Trump himself -- who originally said "nobody met with Russians" -- which then turned into "yes, they met with Russians but only about adoption -- which then turned into, "I wrote the letter myself" which then turned into "they met with Russians about *opposition research* which everybody does" and finally asserted: "collusion isn't a crime." No, that is admitting that his son conspired with a foreign government to illegally affect an election and he knew about it -- which means he was complicit in the same crime.

Then there are these suspicious events: What American President has sought to establish back channels to the Russians that only use the Russians' own secure communications, and cannot be heard by American intelligence? What American president has a secret two-hour meeting with Putin, won't disclose what was discussed and then orders his translator to give up her notes and further orders her not to disclose what was discussed? What American president expresses justifications for the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan, that can only be found in Russian propaganda?

What American President asserts that he has the absolute right to pardon himself while also asserting that the did nothing wrong?

Then, we have additional evidence that the Trump campaign took Russian money for the inaugural committee -- and hid that fact, which is a crime of its own.

 

[Cephus]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Because there is so much public information that points to this, it's only logical that the information that we don't know yet is even more damning.

Trump's own lawyer contradicted Trump's claim that he had no knowledge of the Trump Tower meeting with a Russian operative. In fact, Trump himself -- who originally said "nobody met with Russians" -- which then turned into "yes, they met with Russians but only about adoption -- which then turned into, "I wrote the letter myself" which then turned into "they met with Russians about *opposition research* which everybody does" and finally asserted: "collusion isn't a crime." No, that is admitting that his son conspired with a foreign government to illegally affect an election and he knew about it -- which means he was complicit in the same crime.

Then there are these suspicious events: What American President has sought to establish back channels to the Russians that only use the Russians' own secure communications, and cannot be heard by American intelligence? What American president has a secret two-hour meeting with Putin, won't disclose what was discussed and then orders his translator to give up her notes and further orders her not to disclose what was discussed? What American president expresses justifications for the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan, that can only be found in Russian propaganda?

What American President asserts that he has the absolute right to pardon himself while also asserting that the did nothing wrong?

Then, we have additional evidence that the Trump campaign took Russian money for the inaugural committee -- and hid that fact, which is a crime of its own.

Then where is it? Because Mueller doesn't seem to be able to find any that stands up in court. It's a lot of "he said, she said" stuff, not hard evidence. Again, this is not following actual evidence to a conclusion, this is starting with a conclusion you want to reach and scrambling to find any way to rationalize your way there. This is not impressive. If there was any actual evidence Mueller wouldn't still be looking. He wouldn't have to keep getting extensions. He'd have presented it by now.

 

[MTAtech]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Then where is it? Because Mueller doesn't seem to be able to find any that stands up in court. It's a lot of "he said, she said" stuff, not hard evidence. Again, this is not following actual evidence to a conclusion, this is starting with a conclusion you want to reach and scrambling to find any way to rationalize your way there. This is not impressive. If there was any actual evidence Mueller wouldn't still be looking. He wouldn't have to keep getting extensions. He'd have presented it by now.

Since Mr. Mueller hasn't issued his report, we don't know what "will stand up in court" -- at least, against Trump. Mueller already has a number of guilty pleas other indictments and the such.

If your standards are: "collusion hasn't yet been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in a courtroom," you can't also be saying "Mueller needs to hurry up and shut down his investigation." If you actually care about the country, you wouldn't say "the president can't be charged with obstruction of justice by definition," you would ask: "What did the President and his family actually DO?"

If your standards are: "We care about our country and its independence from *any* foreign power," you ought to be profoundly concerned and want the most comprehensive investigation possible.

 

[Cephus]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Since Mr. Mueller hasn't issued his report, we don't know what "will stand up in court" -- at least, against Trump. Mueller already has a number of guilty pleas other indictments and the such.

If your standards are: "collusion hasn't yet been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in a courtroom," you can't also be saying "Mueller needs to hurry up and shut down his investigation." If you actually care about the country, you wouldn't say "the president can't be charged with obstruction of justice by definition," you would ask: "What did the President and his family actually DO?"

If your standards are: "We care about our country and its independence from *any* foreign power," you ought to be profoundly concerned and want the most comprehensive investigation possible.

This has been going on for more than 2 years already. If he had anything, he wouldn't have had to go back and beg for another 6-month extension. The left is just hoping he'll find something. He's got nothing. It's obvious. Someone with a solid case doesn't keep asking for more time.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

How do you know something will be proven? Because you want it? Or because there is actually any evidence that wrongdoing too place? That's the thing. "Orange Man Bad" is rampant on the left. They want Trump to be guilty of something, even if there isn't any evidence that he is. Rational people follow the evidence to a conclusion. Irrational people adopt a conclusion they like and wish there was evidence to support it. Which side are you on?

If you were in a room full of smoke you would suffocate before you knew there was a fire. Please don't whine about things you have heard a 100 times and disregarded. Take it from a former New Yorker Trump is dirty. He was in the 80's in the 90's and every year since. He has been knee deep in Russian money for well over a decade. This is not a new phenomena. The evidence is overwhelming that Trump conspired with the Kremlin to help win the election. Not only from the GRU hacking and Social Media trolls but with Russian money laundered thru the NRA and PAC's We learned this week that Trump's campaign manager supplies internal polling data from Cambridge Analytica to agents of the Russian Govt. That is unequivocally proof of Trump assisting Russia in their illegal activity of meddling in our elections. This is the same man who stood before the world and said Putin was convincing in his denials of interference. Add that to his attempt to lift Russian sanctions as soon as he was in office and requiring Congress to stop his efforts and you have a criminal as President.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

This has been going on for more than 2 years already. If he had anything, he wouldn't have had to go back and beg for another 6-month extension. The left is just hoping he'll find something. He's got nothing. It's obvious. Someone with a solid case doesn't keep asking for more time.

Or Mueller has so much that he needed 6 more months just to fit it all in. That is far more likely. Mueller has EVERYTHING and Trump is flipping out. Don't you follow him on Twitter?

 

[danarhea]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Semi-complicated question. Will the report find that Trump was aided by the Russians? Probably. Will the report find that members of the Trump campaign worked with Russia? A good chance. Will the report find that those members of the Trump campaign worked with Russia knew that they where working with Russia? Maybe. Will the report prove that Trump knowingly was involved in that? Probably not.

And assume a whole lot of wiggle room with each answer. There simply is not enough publicly available evidence to make a real judgement. My answers are guesses, with a high likelihood of being wrong. They are just I think the most likely results based on what little we know.

The key word in the article I read on it was "publicly". From that, I gather that there is a lot of information that is not public, but eventually may or not be, depending on the level of classification.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Didn't you just say something about personal insults?? Nothing witty to say??
SAD

Its only an insult if you are stupid or a liar. Good to see you were offended by at least one of the two.

 

[joko104]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

The Mueller report will be a huge collection of political attacks and character assassinations on behalf of the Democratic Party.

 

[Mach]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Stone looks to the most viable link in the public.

He could directly be implicated on the conspiracy that was established in the filing against the Russian hackers, since it involved timing the release of the emails as part of that conspiracy.
However, if he refuses to cooperate and Corsi refuses to cooperate, they may only be able to get them on lying/obstruction type charges, and they will effectively "take one for the team".
That's why we have such strong false statements felony laws...to give prosecutors the ability to put pressure on these types of conspiracies...but ultimately if they don't deal, you may be unable to move forward.

Another possibly link is Trump Tower, but since it didn't go through, we're now relying on some future "promise", which there would likely be no record of, if such a thing existed.

Trump does appear to be compromised by Putin, and while I sure hope they figured that out, my guess is they cannot because they cannot get Trump to sit down for an interview and tell them what happened. If he's the only source in the United States, and he refuses, they won't likely be able to identify what occurred.

Trump Tower gets us close, but without an exchange, it would be difficult to call it a smocking gun. It could be argued that it was a response to Russian efforts, not instigated by Team-Trump, which again lets them off the hook.

Trump doesn't use email, and often doesn't use government phones, recorded lines, etc. He conducts himself like a criminal with something to hide.
That he's allowed to do this, is a problem for the public, but it's a boon for protecting Trump from prosecution.

So overall, I'm leaning to no. I mean, aside from what's in the public, that to me already evidences it sufficient to warrant his removal or at least de-fanging him. What's in the public to me is suffcient, he's obviously compromised and pushing a pro-Russian agenda ahead of U.S. interests, and he hasn't given any explanation for it. I fear the worst, since there is no evidence to the contrary.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

This has been going on for more than 2 years already. If he had anything, he wouldn't have had to go back and beg for another 6-month extension. The left is just hoping he'll find something. He's got nothing. It's obvious. Someone with a solid case doesn't keep asking for more time.

LOL First of all the Mueller investigation has been going for 18 months and in that short time has netted 192 criminal charges, 36 indictments or guilty pleas, and 4 prison sentences. The Benghazi investigation lasted 2 years and 4 months and netted ZERO. If you want to discuss on this board try not to lie so much, you are not Trump.

 

[Exactice]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

The key word in the article I read on it was "publicly". From that, I gather that there is a lot of information that is not public, but eventually may or not be, depending on the level of classification.

Danarhea, Not directly too you but in response to your point and a response to EVERYONE.

If Nothing Publicly, has been shared... Yet most might be classified. Would you find it even MORE concerning that, Mueller if in fact has credible evidence and or proof to verify that TRUMP is in fact an agent of Russia, YET is sitting on this information for 1+ years. Is it NOT in the best interest of America, To remove TRUMP if there is credible evidence to support the accusation?

National Security well out weights the constitutional right of you cannot indict a sitting president. What I mean is If we commit a crime, We lose many of our constitutional Rights, Freedom speech is removed when we are given the Miranda Rights. Or 2nd Amendment is Stripped as we cannot have a Firearm if arrested, Even the 4th can be consider removed if detain in a Jail cell.

My point is. IF there is CREDIBLE PROOF why are we waiting this LONG to then accuse the President. GET IT OUT and Get HIM OUT..... Mueller Was the Director for the FBI so he surely understands national security and the threat it may pose against our nation........ You think he is ok with waiting and waiting if he has credible evidence that Trump is an Agent of Russia.......


OR...... be common sense...... Mueller does NOT have any credible evidence of Trump being an agent, But does have evidence that TRUMP is a Moron....And the Media hype is going to create a beautiful let down for those that want to see trump impeached?

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

The Mueller report will be a huge collection of political attacks and character assassinations on behalf of the Democratic Party.

Trump is Putin's bitch.

 

[Exactice]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

LOL First of all the Mueller investigation has been going for 18 months and in that short time has netted 192 criminal charges, 36 indictments or guilty pleas, and 4 prison sentences. The Benghazi investigation lasted 2 years and 4 months and netted ZERO. If you want to discuss on this board try not to lie so much, you are not Trump.

Can I make a couple of points?

1) 192 Charges doe not have any Americans Colluding or plotting or working together with RUSSIANS. NOT a single American has been charged with interfering with the Elections. The crimes being charged are not in relation to the Initial titled scope dictated by the order of the Acting AG Rosenstien to Muller.

2) The Benghazi Investigation went 2 years and had ZERO indictments. Are you NOT concerned? 4 Americans LOST their life, 1 of which was an ambassador for the highest ranking official to lose their life and NOT a single person was held accountable for this? You are Telling me. That this specific Situation was handle perfectly and the loss of life was just chance happening? There was NO failures in the systems?

2a) While I have conceded that the Hearing was intended to damage HRC for her Presidential bid (I had a long discussion in another thread) The facts at hand question at least the due process that if an action in question is considered a crime, it should at least be adjudicated and finalized by a court so that it would not be an issue. If HRC was Not guilty of anything further and her defense was good enough, why would they not allow it to got to court to let it get adjudicate in her favor? Because the AG refused to prosecute and took the odd step to take the FBI's recommendations to not prosecute.


Imagine THIS... After Mueller is Done he releases his finding. THE Current AG who ever it it says. I will NOT prosecute....... The Left would lose their MINDS!!!! (in all fairness what the right did already)

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Can I make a couple of points?

1) 192 Charges doe not have any Americans Colluding or plotting or working together with RUSSIANS. NOT a single American has been charged with interfering with the Elections. The crimes being charged are not in relation to the Initial titled scope dictated by the order of the Acting AG Rosenstien to Muller.

2) The Benghazi Investigation went 2 years and had ZERO indictments. Are you NOT concerned? 4 Americans LOST their life, 1 of which was an ambassador for the highest ranking official to lose their life and NOT a single person was held accountable for this? You are Telling me. That this specific Situation was handle perfectly and the loss of life was just chance happening? There was NO failures in the systems?

2a) While I have conceded that the Hearing was intended to damage HRC for her Presidential bid (I had a long discussion in another thread) The facts at hand question at least the due process that if an action in question is considered a crime, it should at least be adjudicated and finalized by a court so that it would not be an issue. If HRC was Not guilty of anything further and her defense was good enough, why would they not allow it to got to court to let it get adjudicate in her favor? Because the AG refused to prosecute and took the odd step to take the FBI's recommendations to not prosecute.


Imagine THIS... After Mueller is Done he releases his finding. THE Current AG who ever it it says. I will NOT prosecute....... The Left would lose their MINDS!!!! (in all fairness what the right did already)

1. All in good time. There are many good reasons to believe Trump had a conspiracy with the Russians to influence the election. Just because you don't care is not Muellers fault. I was addressing your false claim that "Mueller has nothing" and the investigation has been going on for over 2 years. Those were BOTH blatantly false and leads me to believe you don't care what Mueller finds in fact you hope it will be covered up to save Trump. That is just plain despicable for any American. BTW Mueller is authorized to pursue ANY crimes he may come across during his investigation of Russian interference. Manaforts crimes concern money received from Russian interests and is certainly within the scope of his powers. Have you ever even wondered what possessed Trump to appoint such a man to #1 in his campaign? Even the crudest of vetting would have revealed how dirty Manafort was with Russian money. I have to conclude that Trump knew all about it when he hired him.

2. Again your distrust of our legal institutions and for the rule of law for partisan reasons is quite un-American and are more worthy of a Russian troll which is where you probably got those treasonous ideas in the first place.

2a.. See 2.

 

[Exactice]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

1. All in good time. There are many good reasons to believe Trump had a conspiracy with the Russians to influence the election. Just because you don't care is not Muellers fault. I was addressing your false claim that "Mueller has nothing" and the investigation has been going on for over 2 years. Those were BOTH blatantly false and leads me to believe you don't care what Mueller finds in fact you hope it will be covered up to save Trump. That is just plain despicable for any American. BTW Mueller is authorized to pursue ANY crimes he may come across during his investigation of Russian interference. Manaforts crimes concern money received from Russian interests and is certainly within the scope of his powers. Have you ever even wondered what possessed Trump to appoint such a man to #1 in his campaign? Even the crudest of vetting would have revealed how dirty Manafort was with Russian money. I have to conclude that Trump knew all about it when he hired him.

2. Again your distrust of our legal institutions and for the rule of law for partisan reasons is quite un-American and are more worthy of a Russian troll which is where you probably got those treasonous ideas in the first place.

2a.. See 2.

Sorry maybe you have me confused with another posters as I do not recall ever saying "Mueller has Nothing" I have always stated we DO NOT know what Mueller has so we only have assumptions and speculations. I dont recall ever saying I do not care either? Sorry I did Jump into your questions. So my apologies if we are confused.

With that? You have made a lot of your own assumptions? "Fact you hope it will be covered up to save Trump?" That is DESPICABLE and I would NEVER stand for that EVER. If he is guilty I want to know and I would want the fullest extent of the law applied to him in regards to Russian Collusion.

Yes I have read in fact the scope multiple times to get clarification. As I state in another thread is this the PATH we will be lead for any future President, a FULL back ground scope against all parties related? This is how we will scrutinize from now own? I do NOT know how Trump chose Manafort. But I did not vote for Manafort, I Voted for Trump and his policies. Manafort will pay for his crimes. But does NOT indicated a Russian plot/ploy or collusion to interfere with the Elections .


Maybe He knew about it, Maybe he didnt I do NOT know that factually so I cannot accuse him without just cause. It does LOOK crappy but unless we get the truth then accusing him is futile.


As for distrust of our legal institution? Yes when it is NOT equally dispersed. I gave you the EXACT example. 4 Americans DIED. Who died under Trumps Direct watch? The Ambassador was not a subordinate of The Secretary of State? Confliction of Stories, lack of security, SofS did not know of the ehanced Security request, Then a private server etc. Just doest look good, Then throw in all the destruction of evidence , Immunity deals passed out to ALL of Clinton's aides... Peter Strozk and you got a very questionable investigation. Thats all. as for Russian Troll are you now accusing me of being one? Funny you dont retort but reserve to name calling ......


If thats where this is going there is no need, Im just here for a debate and would rather not go to name calling.

 

[Moderate Right]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Yes, I know we've had this poll several times. This is just an updated version since you might have changed your mind as time has gone on. It seems like Mueller's report is about ready to be released soon, so....

Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

If so, Trump would definitely need to be impeached immediately. If not, then what?

Make your predictions and comment on what you think will happen after it's released based on what you think will be found.

I think there is no doubt that Russia tried to influence the election in Trump's favor. BUT, there isn't one shred of evidence that Trump worked with them in order to do so.

 

[American]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Well, that is a novel take. Trump potentially working with the Russian government is less concerning that the people hired by the people hired by Clinton talked to people in Russia...

The only problem caused by this dossier, is that the FBI used it to get warrants; and Ohr told them it was likely biased, and they failed to listen. Our system shouldn't be operating that way, no matter who's President. I have little faith in the FBI leadership (or DoJ) after 3 years of finding out about this ****. You and I can go back and forth about our opposite politics with no effect on others, but we really need the FBI to park their politics at the door, because this is what happens.

 

[American]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

I believe Cohen, Flynn and possibly Manafort will testify that Trump was 100% complicit in collusion with the Russians. Maybe not soon, but eventually, there will be plenty of witness testimony implicating Trump beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is decent electronic evidence against Trump, just Cohen's and Flynn's testimony could seal the deal. Not to mention all the circumstantial evidence that screams collusion.

The problem with them is that they are compromised. They'll say anything or face financial ruin or prison. Who knows what's going on behind closed doors.

 

[American]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

It is without a doubt that the Trump administration colluded with the Russians to illegally obtain dirt on Hillary Clinton. If you believe that core members of his campaign staff took this step with Trump himself having zero knowledge of it and not approving of it in any way then you're a delusional person. It's really not a question of if he did it at this point, it's a question of whether or not his staff successfully hid his involvement well enough to give him plausible deniability.

Given how stupid and mouthy Trump is we can pretty much guarantee some type of serious charge being recommended against him. Just his tweets alone are enough to justify multiple Obstruction of Justice charges.

Them Ruskies have got their moneys worth, haven't they? :roll:

 

[Redress]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

The only problem caused by this dossier, is that the FBI used it to get warrants; and Ohr told them it was likely biased, and they failed to listen. Our system shouldn't be operating that way, no matter who's President. I have little faith in the FBI leadership (or DoJ) after 3 years of finding out about this ****. You and I can go back and forth about our opposite politics with no effect on others, but we really need the FBI to park their politics at the door, because this is what happens.

Multiple things wrong with this. The first two that pop into my head:

1: The "dossier" was part of the justification for FISA warrants. Not the whole justification.
2: They told the judges that it was political research and biased.

 

[American]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

Multiple things wrong with this. The first two that pop into my head:

1: The "dossier" was part of the justification for FISA warrants. Not the whole justification.
2: They told the judges that it was political research and biased.

I haven't seen any verified report of that. There was too much bias going on around that warrant.

 

[upsideguy]

Re: Will the Mueller report find that Trump worked with the Russians to "steal" the 2016 Election?

I think there is no doubt that Russia tried to influence the election in Trump's favor. BUT, there isn't one shred of evidence that Trump worked with them in order to do so.

That actually is not a correct statement. There is lots of evidence that members of the Trump campaign worked with Russia. Some of it may be benign, some of it may be criminal, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence.

What you don't have is the comprehensive story of how it all relates and fits together. You don't have the opening statement from the prosecution or the statement that they see no reason to press charges. That is what we are awaiting from the Mueller team.

But the "one shred of evidence" statement is complete denial of reality.