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Why we need to let kids get abortions

Schweddy

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Re: Change of description.

OMG.

I just got sick to my stomach.

I think a quote from the article says everything:
"If 16-year-olds feel that this is there only option, than we have really missed the boat on educating them about sexual health," Warren said.

{heyjoeo, I would like to split this to it's own topic - if that is cool.}
 

heyjoeo

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Re: Change of description.

Sure no problem. I figured it was pretty relevant.
 

LiberalFINGER

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If I don't post right away on this topic, it's not because I don't find it worthwhile, but because I'm having way too hard of a time trying to wrap my brain around it.
 

Pacridge

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And the parents in the story? This is why we need to have real text books in our schools teaching real facts, not just some fairy tale about the greatness of abstinence. But shouldn't some one hold the parents accountable? Somehow?
 
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Schweddy

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Last night, this article was on my mind. Call me a wimp, overly sensative, or whatever - I damn near wept!

Then I thought more about this statement:
A 1999 Michigan law provides felony penalties for actions that intentionally, or in wanton or willful disregard for consequences, cause a "miscarriage or stillbirth," or cause "aggravated physical injury to an embryo or fetus." Smith said his staff is researching whether the teens could face manslaughter charges.

"This is not a black and white area of the law. It is a gray area," added Smith. "It is shocking the lengths these two teens went to terminate the pregnancy."

Obviously it was murder, it took 3 weeks to either kill the little one or force him/her out.
They are still trying to decide if that human being was "born" alive or not.
Please explain to me how this is any different than an abortion.

About the "trimester" rule that has been floating around in another thread...
Would this be any different if the first "wack" across its little head were actually IN the first 3 months?


 

Redstateradical

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The sooner kids face responsibility for having children, they will deal with these issues more intelligently. The experience of having a child , feeding it, loving it, worrying about, letting the child get adopted by loving parents is more valuable than the experience of ripping the child out of the womb and discarding it .Our nation is divided on this among liberals and conservatives.
 

heyjoeo

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Wow, you sure are optimistic. I'm telling you right now. Telling kids that having kids is a big "responsibility" is not going to accomplish anything. You have to tell them that having sex is a decision they have to make, and have to be aware that if they are not safe, they can get pregnant. If the PARENT handles this situation RESPONSIBLY then kids would be less likely to have sex just because their parents said it was bad.
 

LiberalFINGER

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The experience of having a child , feeding it, loving it, worrying about, letting the child get adopted by loving parents is more valuable than the experience of ripping the child out of the womb and discarding it .
a lesson learned only in experience.
 

Rainman

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"If 16-year-olds feel that this is there only option, than we have really missed the boat on educating them about sexual health," Warren said.
Tell them sex is fun right Joeo. They're mature enough to make their own decisions. These two kids really knew what they were doing. But hey, they had fun! And it looks like the boyfriend really cared a lot about her too. You think he knew about using a condom?
 

heyjoeo

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Did I say that? All I'm saying is your negative views towards sex are misguided. You just can't tell kids to not do something because it's bad. They will do it. That's just naive parenting.
 

heyjoeo

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Did I say that kids should be only told its fun? All I'm saying is your negative views towards sex are misguided. You just can't tell kids to not do something because it's bad. They will do it. That's just naive parenting.
 

Pacridge

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Sex, bad. Homo marriages real bad. Bombing other countries until they too love democracy- priceless! Freedom's on the march-it's hard work.:thinking
 
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WKL815

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This is exactly why we need to place heavy heavy heavy restrictions on abortion and educate the hell out of our kids about the prenatal experience.

The fact that we have generations of kids who hold no innate appreciation for innocent beautiful new human life is a result of the '60's and 70's extremist positions: "Abortions for everyone at will because it's your right" and "OMG don't have sex, don't talk about sex, don't think about sex, don't learn about anything sex-ish". Babies fell under that last category so no discussing how they got here either.

It's going to take decades to undo the damage but we have to start now!

In the 60's, 70's and 80's we didn't have the technology to look into the womb and watch the baby grow. I think those images should be placed in the textbooks. I am not advocating graphic childbirth images though. Just like pictures of aborted fetuses further dehumanized the unborn, viewing the physical process of childbirth would overshadow the beauty that everyone does truly recognize as the birth experience - holding and seeing your angel for the first time.
 

Schweddy

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WKL815: This is exactly why we need to place heavy heavy heavy restrictions on abortion and educate the hell out of our kids about the prenatal experience.

You get no argument here. But, I do have a question. How can you TEACH experience?
 

WKL815

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vauge said:
You get no argument here. But, I do have a question. How can you TEACH experience?
Don't view the term "prenatal experience" as an action to perform. It is an event to be followed. We teach lots of events in history, but not this common one to everybody. Maybe giving it at least a try will make a world of difference in our culture.

Have kids interview someone with a baby. Have them bring in pictures of themselves as babies. Have them even interview their parents' experience of having them. Here I hope that the parents wouldn't take that as an opportunity to devalue their kid, jokingly or otherwise. Damn messed up people.

Anyway, and show video of babies in-utero and the things they do like suck their thumb and laugh and cry and move when light is shined. Anybody seen the TLC show "A Baby Story" which documents expectant couples and welcomes their babies into the world?

As I write this I realize it sounds like the equivalent of hard core propaganda...but we have to pull out all the stops to show people who babies are.

I understand that you can't teach the feeling you get from having your own, but you teach that they are people and all that means so they don't think it's just a lump of tissue in there. Now, I have to pick up leaves with my 3 year old and "see if there are any bugs outside". =)
 

Schweddy

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WKL815 said:
Have kids interview someone with a baby. Have them bring in pictures of themselves as babies. Have them even interview their parents' experience of having them.
I like your ideas. One of the concerning factors I would have would be to show that it's not all fun and games. There are many 12 & 13 year old girls that want a kid soooooo bad.
 

heyjoeo

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Let's be pragmatic here. No offense, that stuff will never fly, or fly correctly. To be honest with you, this shouldn't even be a government issue, let the parents teach them this issue. You can't ban abortions (look what happened when they banned alcohol). That's it. Let the parents worry about their own kids lives.
 

WKL815

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heyjoe said:
You can't ban abortions (look what happened when they banned alcohol).
I don't see the relation between barring spirits and taking human life.

Please remember my position is that reasonable interpretation of the constitution already outlaws abortion after personhood can be applied. We simply need to refine existing judicial opinions. Please visit here if you need a refresher http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=482

heyjoeo said:
To be honest with you, this shouldn't even be a government issue, let the parents teach them this issue. That's it. Let the parents worry about their own kids lives.
Is it just me or does anyone else see the irony/hypocrisy here of pro-choice people not wanting schools to teach about babies while currently they work so hard to teach about sex? This type of inconsistent line of logic highlights the complete absence of virtue and justice in their position.

For many reasons, I'm not for banning abortion all together nor have I ever stated that. My position is founded on the belief that we as a culture need to start instilling in our children that they are important and have value because they are our children and no other qualification is needed, and further that every innocent person has value too. Saying it's reasonable to kill an innocent child simply because their existence would disenfranchise you or inconvenience you is horrible - and that's the implication of an unrestrained pro-choice stance.
 
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WKL815

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Vague,
Thanks. I will start to attend school board and PTSA meetings soon to get a feel of how to best address this issue. And many others.

Re: young mommies. They should have lucrative babysitting gigs. =)
 
J

Jufarius87

i have no sypathy for this even if abortion was illegal i would have no sympathy for this, this person allowed herself to be injured in order to end another life
 

Gabo

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Even I have no answer to this intricate problem!

Personally, I believe abortion is wrong. But there's all these factors like inbreeding, rape, etc.

My strongest opinion is its wrong to limit someone's rights.
The problem is, that statement can be used on both sides....
Abortion is wrong because it would be ending the babies' life without consent.
Abortion is right because not allowing it would prohibit people from making their own free decisions.

I think to find the real answer we must determine at what point the fetus becomes officially "living". Any time before that violates nobody's rights. Any time after that is non-consentual murder.

Some argue that the baby isn't living till it comes out into the real world.
Some argue its living as soon as the egg and sperm meet.
Some argue its living when the heart starts its first beat. (I think I'll stick with this one)

Abortion is truly one of those issues I feel will never be resolved.
 

kimberlyw

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I cannot teach experience but I can tell of mine. I had an abortion thirteen years ago and to this day, I am haunted by feelings of guilt and self hatred. I don't have a logical reason for why I had an abortion, nor do I justify my actions. I hate myself for what I did....because I did destroy a human life. I am no different than a murderer sitting in a prison cell....yet I am free to walk the streets day in and day out - with no one knowing of the crime I committed. A legal crime. I truly believe that most young women that have abortions are doing so out of fear. When I had my abortion, I was "counseled" for a twenty minute period beforehand, then the abortion began. I truly believe that if more girls were counseled for more than twenty minutes and were taught that it is more shameful to kill a human life, than it is to be unmarried and pregnant, abortion wouldn't be an issue. Today, I have a daughter with cerebral palsy. Here is an interesting article:

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jan/04010505.html

Did my selfish actions based on fear alone, cause my beautiful four year old daughter to endure a lifetime of complications? Everytime I look into her innocent face, smiling back at me...I wonder....did I do this to her?

Murder is murder, legal or not.
 

Schweddy

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Welcome to Debate Politics.

I did not know about the complications such as CP after abortions. This indeed gives greater cause to get the word out.
 
J

Jufarius87

yes, but we allow people to make their own decision as long AS IT DOESNT VIOLATE SOMEONE ELSE'S RIGHTS even libertarians who want no control socially acknowledge that, it would be like if u stabbed someone and then got arrested and claimed that the cops were punishing you "for making your own decision" abortion doesnt make a decision for the mother its when we decide to kill an unconsenting party the worst defilement of cival rights possible
 
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