Why is the idea of Gender Roles so disgusting and unacceptable to people?

[Tigger]

Obviously, I look at gender and gender roles very differently than many others do. That has been long discussed and argued about around here. However, there is one question that I have never had fully answered.....

Why is the idea that there are appropriate roles for men and women, based on biology, psychology, sociology, etc... such an afront to so many people of both genders?

I think it's pretty obvious that men and women have considerable differences in each of the traits I mentioned above. I won't say that there aren't members of both genders whose talents and skills are more similar to the opposite gender, but they are (or at least were) the exception rather than the rule. Society existed for centuries and millenia under this system and then all of the sudden a small group saw fit to destroy it without any apparent benefit to the society as a whole, but only for themselves. What is it about wanting/expecting people to engage in the roles that their gender is most well-equipped to undertake that makes so many people so incredibly upset?

 

[joG]

Obviously, I look at gender and gender roles very differently than many others do. That has been long discussed and argued about around here. However, there is one question that I have never had fully answered.....

Why is the idea that there are appropriate roles for men and women, based on biology, psychology, sociology, etc... such an afront to so many people of both genders?

I think it's pretty obvious that men and women have considerable differences in each of the traits I mentioned above. I won't say that there aren't members of both genders whose talents and skills are more similar to the opposite gender, but they are (or at least were) the exception rather than the rule. Society existed for centuries and millenia under this system and then all of the sudden a small group saw fit to destroy it without any apparent benefit to the society as a whole, but only for themselves. What is it about wanting/expecting people to engage in the roles that their gender is most well-equipped to undertake that makes so many people so incredibly upset?

Of course men and women are different in many things and not to except that is rather odd.

PS: I missed what you are referring to, when you say you view gender roles differently to most. What did you mean?

 

[Jredbaron96]

Because regardless of gender, men and women are still individuals. They're free to do what they want.

 

[MaggieD]

Why is the idea that there are appropriate roles for men and women, based on biology, psychology, sociology, etc... such an afront to so many people of both genders?

Because assigning "appropriate roles" is a form of control. The reason we have these gender roles in the first place isn't because of biology, it's completely because of people's wish to put things neatly in a row, fill up little boxes and move on.

 

[Tigger]

Of course men and women are different in many things and not to except that is rather odd.

Yet our entire modern American society is based on the idea that men and women are the same. That we are both capable of and appropriate for the same types of work, lifestyle, etc.... Doesn't that make you scratch your head a little bit?

PS: I missed what you are referring to, when you say you view gender roles differently to most. What did you mean?

I'm a well-known mysogynist with a bias against women in non-traditional roles.

 

[ecofarm]

Because assigning "appropriate roles" is a form of control.

That.


Roles can develop organically regardless of genders.

 

[joG]

Yet our entire modern American society is based on the idea that men and women are the same. That we are both capable of and appropriate for the same types of work, lifestyle, etc.... Doesn't that make you scratch your head a little bit?

I try to ignore idiocy unless I am directly impacted.

 

[Tigger]

Because regardless of gender, men and women are still individuals. They're free to do what they want.

...and we see the disaster of a society that "individuality" has created in the last century, since we moved away from gender roles and into this system of "freedom" based culture.

Because assigning "appropriate roles" is a form of control. The reason we have these gender roles in the first place isn't because of biology, it's completely because of people's wish to put things neatly in a row, fill up little boxes and move on.

So you believe those roles were just created haphazardly, without any sort of thought or backing, and yet were able to be maintained for thousands of years across a majority of the societies in the world, just by dumb luck? Have you considered that maybe Order is (and should be) the main goal of Society?

 

[ecofarm]

What about when a gender role includes getting ones ass kicked as a matter of discipline. That's ****ing ridiculous.

 

[Tigger]

I try to ignore idiocy unless I am directly impacted.

I would suggest these things impact eceryone in this country, on a daily basis.

 

[paddymcdougall]

Because assigning "appropriate roles" is a form of control. The reason we have these gender roles in the first place isn't because of biology, it's completely because of people's wish to put things neatly in a row, fill up little boxes and move on.

Exactly.

It's more subtle these days - want ads don't say "men only" or "women only" - but it's still around.

We want things to not be assigned by gender because you just don't know if the right person for a job, a role, emotional support, parenting, canning, wood chopping, whatever is a man or a woman.

Let people be judged on what they can do and what they want to do, not their gender.

But when you can put them in a box, you can limit their achievements and keep them in their cubbyhole.

But MaggieD said it better anyway...

 

[joG]

Because assigning "appropriate roles" is a form of control. The reason we have these gender roles in the first place isn't because of biology, it's completely because of people's wish to put things neatly in a row, fill up little boxes and move on.

I like little boxes. But I don't think I like putting people into them. They stick out all over.

 

[sangha]

Obviously, I look at gender and gender roles very differently than many others do. That has been long discussed and argued about around here. However, there is one question that I have never had fully answered.....

Why is the idea that there are appropriate roles for men and women, based on biology, psychology, sociology, etc... such an afront to so many people of both genders?

Simple. Because the facts (ie biology, psychology etc) do not show that there are "appropriate roles" for people based on sex and gender. What the facts show is that, when grouped by sex and gender, the groups as a whole show nothing more than a *predisposition* towards certain characteristics and say nothing about individuals

The real problem is that some people are too freaking stupid to understand what the word "predisposition" means

 

[paddymcdougall]

What is it about wanting/expecting people to engage in the roles that their gender is most well-equipped to undertake that makes so many people so incredibly upset?

Let me put it another way: what is it about many of us wanting to judge people by their abilities and not their gender that makes so many people upset?

 

[Tigger]

What about when a gender role includes getting ones ass kicked as a matter of discipline. That's ****ing ridiculous.

Good question. I'm all for taking "Sonny" out behind the woodshed and beating him senseless when you find out he's thinking about becoming a floral designer after high school. It works both ways.

 

[Jredbaron96]

...and we see the disaster of a society that "individuality" has created in the last century, since we moved away from gender roles and into this system of "freedom" based culture.

Bull****. The definition of disaster is not "Whatever I don't approve of."

 

[ecofarm]

Good question. I'm all for taking "Sonny" out behind the woodshed and beating him senseless when you find out he's thinking about becoming a floral designer after high school. It works both ways.

You support it for women, gays and children but what about straight men?

 

[joG]

I would suggest these things impact eceryone in this country, on a daily basis.

You mean, you wear a dress?

 

[paddymcdougall]

Good question. I'm all for taking "Sonny" out behind the woodshed and beating him senseless when you find out he's thinking about becoming a floral designer after high school. It works both ways.

You aren't serious, I hope.

 

[Tigger]

Let people be judged on what they can do and what they want to do, not their gender.

With all due respect THERE is your mistake. Society does not work when we look at things this way. It only works when we deal with what they SHOULD do. I'd LOVE to go out and rob a Brinks Truck this afternoon. I might even be able to do it. I could really use the money. However I SHOULD not, and WILL NOT do that.

I like little boxes. But I don't think I like putting people into them. They stick out all over.

That's what the chainsaw and the axe are for.

Simple. Because the facts (ie biology, psychology etc) do not show that there are "appropriate roles" for people based on sex and gender. What the facts show is that, when grouped by sex and gender, the groups as a whole show nothing more than a *predisposition* towards certain characteristics and say nothing about individuals

The real problem is that some people are too freaking stupid to understand what the word "predisposition" means

I understand it quite clearly, sangha. When a group as a whole shows a predisposition for something, that should be a hint to us as to what the Universe intended that group to be, do, etc.... You don't think that the Powers that created this test for our Souls was going to be so obvious as to lay it out entirely in Black and White, do you? If so, where would the test be?

Let me put it another way: what is it about many of us wanting to judge people by their abilities and not their gender that makes so many people upset?

Life is about Right and Wrong, what we Should Do rather than what we Can do; nothing else. Look to just about any "creation" myth or religion and you can find evidence of that.... Eve, Pandora, etc.... It always has been and always will be. What upsets many of us is that while me and my family living a proper lifestyle does not adversely affect your ability to live your life as you see fit, the reverse is not always true.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Because assigning "appropriate roles" is a form of control. The reason we have these gender roles in the first place isn't because of biology, it's completely because of people's wish to put things neatly in a row, fill up little boxes and move on.

Do you oppose the title 9 mandates for college sports? Do you favor different standards based on gender? Why is separate but unequal OK for gender but not race? It all seems to boil down to some favoring equality of outcome over equality of opportunity.

 

[Tigger]

Bull****. The definition of disaster is not "Whatever I don't approve of."

Are you honestly going to tell me that you don't look at America today and see a society about to crumble and fall into the foundation it was founded upon?

You support it for women, gays and children but what about straight men?

Definitely. If a Man is not living up to His responsibilities, He needs to be called out on it and taken to task by whatever means are necessary. Where we'll disagree is on WHO it is that should be in charge of making that determination.

You aren't serious, I hope.

I'm totally serious.

 

[Ben K.]

People, you may all be wasting your time. Just saying.

 

[MaggieD]

Do you oppose the title 9 mandates for college sports? Do you favor different standards based on gender? Why is separate but unequal OK for gender but not race? It all seems to boil down to some favoring equality of outcome over equality of opportunity.

I'm not sure I understand Title 9 mandates. Sports in education can't discriminate based on sex? If it's that simple, then I'd agree. I absolutely do not believe on different standards based on gender. I like your last line. You may be right and that I don't agree with. You don't dumb something down (physically) in order to accept women into a program, in my opinion.

 

[Tigger]

People, you may all be wasting your time. Just saying.

If they're trying to change my mind, definitely. Most of them know that already, Ben.