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Why is CRT a hot button issue and how did it become one?

NWRatCon said:
One couldn't convince you the sky was blue if your eyes were propped open, and there were no clouds in the sky in the middle of the day. Unless that's what Fox News decided was the complaint of the day, then you'd be all over it. Then it would be, "No more blue skies! They're a communist plot! The sky has a definite liberal bent... that's why it's blue. "
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I watch FoxNews in addition to nightly news from NBC, CBS, PBS, and even a little CNN.
If you don't, then your views are slanted.
And if you think CRT is a good idea, then I question your love for America and suggest you like the idea of children growing up believing they are racist and the country is oppressing black people. And I don't even know you.
And, unfortunately, our part of the country has had too much blue skies.
I would prefer gray skies with a lot of rain.
 
lwf said:
Being obsessed with preventing people from being treated horribly seems like a good obsession to have. Education through the sharing of facts is not indoctrination. Indoctrination is sharing "alternative facts" where reality is less important than a political agenda. Republicans are the ones who have embraced this.
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Teaching a theory as though it is fact is an alternative fact, not an obsession as those who want to promote their agenda through teaching that theory as fact are doing. It is a theory, it's right there in the name, Critical Race Theory.
 
jaypatriot said:
I watch FoxNews in addition to nightly news from NBC, CBS, PBS, and even a little CNN.
If you don't, then your views are slanted.
And if you think CRT is a good idea, then I question your love for America and suggest you like the idea of children growing up believing they are racist and the country is oppressing black people. And I don't even know you.
And, unfortunately, our part of the country has had too much blue skies.
I would prefer gray skies with a lot of rain.
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It's easy to see where you get your views from. Have you ever studied CRT? Do you know when it emerged, what its precedents were, who authored it, why it was created? I would be comfortable waging a large sum that as of this moment you have done none of the above, yet you craft arguments out of ignorance, vomiting Fox talking points as if they were established fact, having no knowledge of your own.
 
lwf said:
It is you who have not read up on the subject, at least outside of conservative sources. The whole point of CRT is to teach that systemic racism CAN be amended.

The knee jerk reaction against CRT is due to a lack of understanding of what "systemic racism" means. Conservatives equate "systemic racism" with "bigoted white people," and they correctly conclude that white racial bigotry is not a serious problem in the majority of places and institutions in 2021 America. Specific institutions are not "inherently racist" because they are composed of actively bigoted white people in 2021, (at least in the vast majority of cases.) They are inherently racist in the systemic racism sense because they were formed and operate under the same rules as were established during a period where black society and culture was legally and civically prevented from being successful. The institutions are racist because they don't recognize that an entire culture of people raised in such a society for generations are not starting from the same starting line in 2021 as everyone else through no fault of their own.

It is ignorant to assume that American institutions benefit all Americans equally. They provably don't. This isn't because too many Americans in 2021 are bigots, it's because too many black people are born and raised in austere conditions. Too many black people are born and raised in austere conditions not because of bigoted white people in 2021, but because their entire culture was utterly alienated by our white ancestors and most resources were forbidden to them. In such a culture far fewer people are going to succeed than in the dominant culture, even if we technically no longer deliberately prevent them from success.

It most definitely IS white culture's fault that black culture doesn't do as well as we do in America in 2021. That doesn't mean it is the fault of white people living in 2021 for being bigots, but it does mean that white people living in 2021 should recognize our comparative privilege that we don't have a systemically racist system to deal with along with normal human problems, and we should share in the responsibility for making changes to even the playing field for those that do.
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The difference between us is that you defend your position by call others “bigots.” I will defend mine by citing reference.

From Britannica (emphasis added):

Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans.​
​

Now, let’s review the definition of the word “inherent” (emphasis added):

in·her·ent​
​
/inˈhirənt,inˈherənt/​
​
adjective​
  1. existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.​

When you can muster more than insults to support your assertions, let me know.
 
The dictionary educated.


lol
 
NatMorton said:
The difference between us is that you defend your position by call others “bigots.” I will defend mine by citing reference.

From Britannica (emphasis added):

Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans.​
​

Now, let’s review the definition of the word “inherent” (emphasis added):

in·her·ent​
​
/inˈhirənt,inˈherənt/​
​
adjective​
  1. existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.​

When you can muster more than insults to support your assertions, let me know.
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Agree with him or not, I found his post thoughtful and well constructed. Yours on the other hand, was insulting, belittling, and snarky. In a neutral environment guess whose will carry the most weight!
 
NatMorton said:
The difference between us is that you defend your position by call others “bigots.” I will defend mine by citing reference.

From Britannica (emphasis added):

Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans.​
​

Now, let’s review the definition of the word “inherent” (emphasis added):

in·her·ent​
​
/inˈhirənt,inˈherənt/​
​
adjective​
  1. existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.​

When you can muster more than insults to support your assertions, let me know.
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You obviously didn't even read my post if you think I was calling anyone a bigot. I explained what CRT teaches. If you need it to be something that it isn't in order to justify your irrational fear of a social theory and justify your big government belief that the feds should take control of the US education system in order to force educators to censor politically inconvenient history, then go ahead.
 
Sabre said:
Teaching a theory as though it is fact is an alternative fact, not an obsession as those who want to promote their agenda through teaching that theory as fact are doing. It is a theory, it's right there in the name, Critical Race Theory.
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It is not taught as though it is a fact. It is taught as though it is a theory. Like the theory of evolution.
 
vegas giants said:
Theories of many kinds are discussed in universities and should be as long as they are labeled as theories
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I meant in the sense that any part that is shown to be not factual should not be taught in schools. Evolution is a theory that should be taught in schools since the theory is based on scientifically supported evidence. Phrenology is a theory that should not be taught in schools as it is based on disproven assumptions rather than scientifically supported evidence.
 
Sabre said:
Teaching a theory as though it is fact is an alternative fact, not an obsession as those who want to promote their agenda through teaching that theory as fact are doing. It is a theory, it's right there in the name, Critical Race Theory.
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In truth all of science is a theory
 
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NatMorton said:
CRT's roots are not new. Racism and Marxism each go way back. It's the marriage of the two in the form of CRT that is perhaps the novelty.
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Many on the left stopped debating years ago. It's just jeering now, with at best a tangential relationship to real-world beliefs and events. There is no attempt to address the subject directly, and any one who does attempt to do so is met with the intellectual equivalent of honking noises.
 
lwf said:
Children should be taught history as it actually happened, not convenient myths about history in order not to make white people look bad.
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It's false framing. The arc of history is the liberation of the individual from the yolk of group identity. I prefer removing the yolk to expanding it to cover all.
 
lwf said:
Because it supports a convenient conservative narrative that white people are the new "minorities" in America in an attempt to terrify ignorant blue-collar white folks to vote against their own interests and vote "Republican" at the polls.

You can get some white people to surrender anything to you if you can convince them that you are the only thing standing between them and an army of brown folks razing their home and brainwashing their children into worshipping Satan, or worse, becoming a "Democrat."
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That's not an actual conservative narrative. Race narratives are mainstream on the modern left, not the modern right.
 
Sabre said:
Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger has warned that the website can no longer be trusted – insisting it is now just “propaganda” for the left-leaning “establishment”.

Mr Sanger told UnHerd’s Lockdown TV on Wednesday that he started the “encyclopaedia of opinion” in 2001 purely on the basis it would offer true neutrality and offer “multiple points of view” on “hot button issues”, the NY Post reports.
Now, he insisted, conservative voices are “sternly warned if not kicked out” if they try to add a different take on establishment views – which Mr Sanger deemed “propaganda”.
“You can’t cite Fox News on sociopolitical issues. It’s just banned now,” he insisted of the apparent clampdown on respected conservative voices.
“It means that if a controversy does not appear in the mainstream centre-left media, then it’s not going to appear on Wikipedia.”
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Well, Fox News is obviously not a reliable source. I think we can all agree on that. Even if you agree with it, it should not be used on an encyclopedia. But Wikipedia doesn't get its sources solely from news websites, but also from academic journals and papers and books. They're never going to present only the left-wing view on any political issue, are they?
 
jaypatriot said:
I watch FoxNews in addition to nightly news from NBC, CBS, PBS, and even a little CNN.
If you don't, then your views are slanted.
And if you think CRT is a good idea, then I question your love for America and suggest you like the idea of children growing up believing they are racist and the country is oppressing black people. And I don't even know you.
And, unfortunately, our part of the country has had too much blue skies.
I would prefer gray skies with a lot of rain.
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You don't think children should be taught about systemic racism?
 
Marrybore said:
Well, Fox News is obviously not a reliable source. I think we can all agree on that. Even if you agree with it, it should not be used on an encyclopedia. But Wikipedia doesn't get its sources solely from news websites, but also from academic journals and papers and books. They're never going to present only the left-wing view on any political issue, are they?
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Source policing seems to be only good if you agree with the source, usually because the source agrees with you. This article was printed in many media sources, I chose just one, you can find it in numerous listings if you put it into your search engine, one may be a source you approve of but - they all repeat the same article.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
It's false framing. The arc of history is the liberation of the individual from the yolk of group identity. I prefer removing the yolk to expanding it to cover all.
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The yolk of group identity should be removed going forward. But you can't pretend that it didn't exist for hundreds of years, and you shouldn't assume that this group identity didn't play an enormous part in shaping modern day society. Pretending that everyone is born into a roughly comparable average situation denies reality. White people on average are born into a better situation than black people on average in the United States. This is due to the impact of our comparative historical group identities. This fact should be taught in schools so that people don't grow up simply assuming that the reason black culture struggles more than white culture in the United States is due to some intrinsic inferiority in their culture.
 
jaypatriot said:
I watch FoxNews in addition to nightly news from NBC, CBS, PBS, and even a little CNN.
If you don't, then your views are slanted.
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Sorry, but no. That's a version of false balance, which assumes that both "sides" of an issue or partisan split are somehow "equally true."


jaypatriot said:
And if you think CRT is a good idea, then I question your love for America and suggest you like the idea of children growing up believing they are racist and the country is oppressing black people.
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:rolleyes:

The fact is that racism has a profound effect on America, and its citizens, since the first European colonists landed in the New World. Anyone who loves America should not ignore its failures and flaws, because acknowledging them is necessary in order to fix them.

There is also no question that the US is still oppressing minorities. Blacks don't live shorter lives, with lower incomes, worse education, less access to credit, and worse health care, because of any biological factors, or because blacks have a "worse culture." It's because of discrimination. (And if you don't agree, then tell us all: When exactly did racism end in America?)

CRT has some issues, but yes, it's a good idea. More important, though, is that no one is teaching CRT in K-12 schools. It's a legal framework, which is taught in law schools. Of course, that's not something you find out by watching Fox News, which cares more about whipping people into a racist frenzy than about a pesky thing like "facts."

Further, at least some versions of "structural racism" are not about what is in the hearts and minds of individuals. They're about the outcomes, as well as the institutional structures that perpetuate racism. I.e. no, you don't have to teach white kids that "you are racist" when you're teaching them about racism in US history.
 
lwf said:
The yolk of group identity should be removed going forward. But you can't pretend that it didn't exist for hundreds of years, and you shouldn't assume that this group identity didn't play an enormous part in shaping modern day society. Pretending that everyone is born into a roughly comparable average situation denies reality. White people on average are born into a better situation than black people on average in the United States. This is due to the impact of our comparative historical group identities.
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It has always been there. It is still there to greater or lesser degrees. But removing it remains the only sensible project. All the rest of the narrative is irrelevant.

lwf said:
This fact should be taught in schools so that people don't grow up simply assuming that the reason black culture struggles more than white culture in the United States is due to some intrinsic inferiority in their culture.
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They struggle because the intrinsic inferiority of Democrat policies.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
It has always been there. It is still there to greater or lesser degrees. But removing it remains the only sensible project. All the rest of the narrative is irrelevant.



They struggle because the intrinsic inferiority of Democrat policies.
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They struggle due to systemic racism
 
vegas giants said:
They struggle due to systemic racism
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People of color largely live in Democratic strongholds. It is largely Democratic regimes that institute city-level policies, make infrastructure decisions, distribute resources, and implement government initiatives at street level. It's a system made up of Democrats.

But that's also largely irrelevant. The answer remains to remove the yolk by empowering the individual.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
People of color largely live in Democratic strongholds. It is largely Democratic regimes that institute city-level policies, make infrastructure decisions, distribute resources, and implement government initiatives at street level. It's a system made up of Democrats.

But that's also largely irrelevant. The answer remains to remove the yolk by empowering the individual.
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The black belt of the south is all Republican run.
 
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