Why I Oppose Abortion

[wolfman24]

How does abortion increase consuming nations resources? And i fail to see how it "caters to the elite"...

It doesn't if anything it helps preserve resources. As for the elite I guess the Op has never been to the inner city.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

I didn't say you ignored my second question, I said you ignored the fact that elites can easily recoup money.

In regards to your question of elites having children, I don't need another answer as the answer I gave is perfectly reasonable and sensible.

It's not about recouping money. It's about dividing money. Too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the broth.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

It's not about recouping money. It's about dividing money. Too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the broth.

But if I can bring in enough broth [read:gaining capital via investments] for each of the cooks [read: children] to work with, it's all good.

 

[wolfman24]

Some elites have lots of children: 6, 8, 10. Those families typically have dire estate battles.

Children will always have a chance to intelligently invest capital. The more children had, the lesser the chance because the less resources available per head.

Speculation not supported by fact or objective evidencee or information. Check census bureau data and I will bet credits to navy beans you are wrong by a damn sight.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

It doesn't if anything it helps preserve resources. As for the elite I guess the Op has never been to the inner city.

Commodity fetishism, such as unrelated reproduction, leads to social alienation which inhibits class consciousness. The proletariat stops thinking because it can be primitively relieved.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

The Soviet Union had incredible abortion rates which lead to widespread disregard for children and immense poverty for the State to compensate.

Abortion in Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Family in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the working class is going to succeed, it needs to refrain from commodifying itself.

What do you mean by the working class "needs to refrain from commodifying itself?" People already commodify themselves (in a sense) when they sell their labor.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

But if I can bring in enough broth [read:gaining capital via investments] for each of the cooks [read: children] to work with, it's all good.

Why does it matter how much you bring? If the upper class fights among itself, that means it can't focus on those beneath it.

Besides, you're again ignoring time management. Every second spent accumulating capital is a second diverted from children's maturity.

That means they don't become manage capital intelligently into the future.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Why does it matter how much you bring? If the upper class fights among itself, that means it can't focus on those beneath it.

Why would they fight amongst themselves if there is enough for everyone?

 

[EcoFemSoc]

What do you mean by the working class "needs to refrain from commodifying itself?" People already commodify themselves (in a sense) when they sell their labor.

Throwing a log onto the fire doesn't help. The working class needs to get in the habit of thinking instead of acting on impulses so it refrains from selling labor so cheaply.

 

[Goshin]

It's also ignoring the fact that some families give one child a controlling interest, and the others just enough to live the high life on. Doesn't have to be even split.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

Why would they fight amongst themselves if there is enough for everyone?

When you're in the upper class, paranoia is part of life. You're constantly on the watch for your peers' hostile takeovers because it's impossible to know in advance of experience whether they're going to do so. That paranoia is why people rise to the top in the first place.

The more potential hostile peers, the more watching required.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

It's also ignoring the fact that some families give one child a controlling interest, and the others just enough to live the high life on. Doesn't have to be even split.

Yes, but those children would become socially alienated workers who identify with the revolution.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Throwing a log onto the fire doesn't help. The working class needs to get in the habit of thinking instead of acting on impulses so it refrains from selling labor so cheaply.

Well, I didn't know that thinking was going to help feed me when I have no money and am in need of food. I'll have to keep that in mind.

EDIT:

Yes, but those children would become socially alienated workers who identify with the revolution.

Or they just maintain their eliteness, seeing as how they grew up being elites and were groomed to be as such.

When you're in the upper class, paranoia is part of life. You're constantly on the watch for your peers' hostile takeovers because it's impossible to know in advance of experience whether they're going to do so. That paranoia is why people rise to the top in the first place.

The more potential hostile peers, the more watching required.

From other families, yes, but if there is enough capital to be spread around for people to invest at a young age, why would they fight amongst themselves when they can all make their own money? (at least in the short-term)

 

[Goshin]

Throwing a log onto the fire doesn't help. The working class needs to get in the habit of thinking instead of acting on impulses so it refrains from selling labor so cheaply.

Food, shelter and warmth are not impulses, but necessities. The working class sells its labor cheaply because they have little means of living otherwise. Contrary to some folks assertions, it isn't easy to get on Welfare or disability, and those don't pay much more than bare subsistence. When a working man loses his job, he will usually try to get another as quickly as he can, even if it means a pay cut, because it is usually a little better than what he can get in gov't bennies.

 

[Goshin]

Yes, but those children would become socially alienated workers who identify with the revolution.

Um... yeah. Their trust funds that produce half a million a year in income would certainly make them proletariat revolutionaries. :lamo


I'm smellin' a lotta theory and very little life experience here. :wassat1:

 

[EcoFemSoc]

Well, I didn't know that thinking was going to help feed me when I have no money and am in need of food. I'll have to keep that in mind.



Or they just maintain their eliteness, seeing as how they grew up being elites and were groomed to be as such.

How does class consciousness happen without thinking?

It doesn't matter how groomed elites are if they're cut out from inheritance. They're alienated, so they have to adapt.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

How does class consciousness happen without thinking?

It doesn't matter how groomed elites are if they're cut out from inheritance. They're alienated, so they have to adapt.

Re-read what I said.

They would have to adapt, yes, but they wouldn't be in the working class as they would have made contacts with other elites and thus would be able to still live a much better life than ordinary people.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

Food, shelter and warmth are not impulses, but necessities. The working class sells its labor cheaply because they have little means of living otherwise. Contrary to some folks assertions, it isn't easy to get on Welfare or disability, and those don't pay much more than bare subsistence. When a working man loses his job, he will usually try to get another as quickly as he can, even if it means a pay cut, because it is usually a little better than what he can get in gov't bennies.

We're talking about class consciousness. That means cooperating for better conditions. The impulse is refusing to cooperate.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

Um... yeah. Their trust funds that produce half a million a year in income would certainly make them proletariat revolutionaries. :lamo


I'm smellin' a lotta theory and very little life experience here. :wassat1:

Did they get cut out of inheritance, or not?

If they did, they're alienated. If they didn't, capital is divided.

 

[EcoFemSoc]

Re-read what I said.

They would have to adapt, yes, but they wouldn't be in the working class as they would have made contacts with other elites and thus would be able to still live a much better life than ordinary people.

You think they're happy with being alienated?

 

[Mr. Invisible]

You think they're happy with being alienated?

Never said they were happy about it, but just because there were alienated doesn't mean they will suddenly turn into working class revolutionaries.

 

[wolfman24]

Commodity fetishism, such as unrelated reproduction, leads to social alienation which inhibits class consciousness. The proletariat stops thinking because it can be primitively relieved.

English? I stand by my statement. fewer people = more resources

 

[EcoFemSoc]

Never said they were happy about it, but just because there were alienated doesn't mean they will suddenly turn into working class revolutionaries.

Right. Things take time. Opposing abortion will accelerate how fast time passes.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Right. Things take time. Opposing abortion will accelerate how fast time passes.

So are you implying that it's only a matter of time before these disenfranchised elites suddenly become revolutionaries, because if so, you need to seriously rethink that.

 

[Goshin]

Did they get cut out of inheritance, or not?

If they did, they're alienated. If they didn't, capital is divided.

Okay, lemme try to explain this. :doh


Joe Ketchup, inventer of ketchup, has a portfolio valued at 1 billion... most of it used to maintain a controlling interest in Joe Ketchup Inc. He's a prolific fellow and has five kids.

In his will, he leaves 800 million in Ketchup Inc stock to Joe Jr... a controlling interest. His other four children divide the rest... 50 million each, enough to give them at least a couple million a year income and a very comfortable high-class lifestyle (hardly alienated proletariat)... but the company remains firmly under Joe Jr's control.

This isn't exactly going to break the elite's backs or create new "revolutionaries". Gawd I can barely say that with a straight face...