• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W:40]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Moderate Right said:
My apologies to any in this thread whom I have painted with too broad of a brush. While I am against almost all abortions I have found abortion discussions from some on this forum to be disgustingly cold hearted and downright appalling, such as some of the answers to the nine month old fetus discussion and someone actually calling a fetus a gob of goo. I have actually always believed that pro-choicers and pro-lifers could find some common ground in using whatever means was necessary to swap as many abortions as possible as a method of birth control to methods of birth control before the fact instead of after the fact, in effect keeping abortions to the smallest number as possible. Far too many in this country seem to have a laissez-faire attitude regarding using abortion as just another a method of birth control on the menu. If someone really doesn't want to have a baby I don't see why at least plan B can't be used more effectively, rather than waiting to have an abortion.
Click to expand...
When it comes to nine months, I have yet to see anyone present an example of 9 month elective abortions occurring in the united states. Pro choice individuals are the ones who advocate methods that actually work to reduce abortion, such as birth control, sex education, and other such things.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

code1211 said:
I happen to be a pro-choice advocate.

You don't seem capable of responding to points that have little or nothing to do with abortion law.

I can't help it if you cannot do this.

I do not possess any magical healing abilities for your mind or body.
Click to expand...

Uh huh...we get it. It's always them, they, he, she, it...never you. :roll:
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

sangha said:
I see that several people have gone on record as saying that 9mo fetus has no right to life. Include me in that # because they are absolutely correct
Click to expand...

Does anyone have a right to life?
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

code1211 said:
Because you refuse to accept what I have written
Click to expand...
Again that is because you have not written anything intelligent or relevant and that is fact not opinion.

I can't help you.
Click to expand...
I do not need your help. You would serve yourself much better by helping yourself to better understanding of the topic.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

David_N said:
When it comes to nine months, I have yet to see anyone present an example of 9 month elective abortions occurring in the united states. Pro choice individuals are the ones who advocate methods that actually work to reduce abortion, such as birth control, sex education, and other such things.
Click to expand...

Again, I'm not talking about elective abortions at nine months. I'm talking about what people think. What their thought processes are. If they truly feel that a nine month old fetus has no right to life. Is the left willing to come out and say that a 6, 7, 8, or nine month old fetus does have a right to life and not be aborted? While there is some birth control education available I don't see the left hammering on it as much as they should be and the far right makes the situation worse if they are against all forms of birth control. The left just seems to defend abortions like the right defends the second amendment, no ifs, ands, or buts. They insist on abortion being just another option in birth control instead of using every method available to decrease abortions to the smallest number possible.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Removable Mind said:
Uh huh...we get it. It's always them, they, he, she, it...never you. :roll:
Click to expand...

One thing for sure...

It's never you.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

prometeus said:
Again that is because you have not written anything intelligent or relevant and that is fact not opinion.

I do not need your help. You would serve yourself much better by helping yourself to better understanding of the topic.
Click to expand...

Did I present anything written as something other than my personal opinion?
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

prometeus said:
Can you define such a right, its origin and where is it enacted as law?
Click to expand...

Does anyone in the United States have a right to live in the United States of America, based on current law, today.

I'm only asking a question.

Why haven't you put me on ignore?
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Moderate Right said:
Again, I'm not talking about elective abortions at nine months. I'm talking about what people think. What their thought processes are. If they truly feel that a nine month old fetus has no right to life. Is the left willing to come out and say that a 6, 7, 8, or nine month old fetus does have a right to life and not be aborted? While there is some birth control education available I don't see the left hammering on it as much as they should be and the far right makes the situation worse if they are against all forms of birth control. The left just seems to defend abortions like the right defends the second amendment, no ifs, ands, or buts. They insist on abortion being just another option in birth control instead of using every method available to decrease abortions to the smallest number possible.
Click to expand...

I have yet to see a poster who ADVOCATES abortion past viability. When discussing a "right to life" that's quite different from one's views on abortion and viability.
They insist on abortion being just another option in birth control instead of using every method available to decrease abortions to the smallest number possible.
Click to expand...
LOL. Yeah, which is why it's almost always the left who push for free birth control, fight against abstinence education..
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

code1211 said:
Does anyone in the United States have a right to live in the United States of America, based on current law, today.

I'm only asking a question.
Click to expand...
Why can't you define the right to life?

Why haven't you put me on ignore?
Click to expand...
Why should I?
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

David_N said:
I have yet to see a poster who ADVOCATES abortion past viability. When discussing a "right to life" that's quite different from one's views on abortion and viability.

LOL. Yeah, which is why it's almost always the left who push for free birth control, fight against abstinence education..
Click to expand...

Almost all points in this debate are unopposed by the other side.

As long as both sides talk past each other, there will never be agreement between the devoted of the two sides.

De-coupling the societal need to have safe and available abortion from the personal ideas of life and liberty of the individual seems essential to this.

To the person making the choice, the act of becoming pregnant is completely separated from the notion that one is either ready to or not ready to raise a child.

Forcing a person ill or un equipped to raise a child to do so seems a little stupid, yet that is the stance of the pro lifers. Until there is an adequate facility to successfully rear children without parents, a job society has abdicated, there is no other choice for the unwilling mother or the unlucky child.

There are very different considerations that need to be taken in this. I feel that denying that the unborn have any rights is just a rationalization to support an argument. That's just my own opinion, though.

Since the mother is the one who will have to give over her life to the care of the child, it is rightly the choice of the mother to either do this or not do this. Abortion is the "out" that society needs to provide.

As soon as you bring in the notion that a person is free control their own body, that begs the question of the freedom of the unborn. The unborn is NOT a part of the mother's body. No more than a driver is a part of a car. Who speaks to the protection of the body of the unborn?

It annoys people when I say this, but abortion is needed because it would be very inconvenient to not have it available.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

prometeus said:
Why can't you define the right to life?

Why should I?
Click to expand...

Just an idle thought that passed by...

You are free to ignore it and yet you seem to not be capable of doing so.

You prefer to dismiss and/or condemn.

A judgmental pro choicer. Imagine that.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Moderate Right said:
My apologies to any in this thread whom I have painted with too broad of a brush. While I am against almost all abortions I have found abortion discussions from some on this forum to be disgustingly cold hearted and downright appalling, such as some of the answers to the nine month old fetus discussion and someone actually calling a fetus a gob of goo. I have actually always believed that pro-choicers and pro-lifers could find some common ground in using whatever means was necessary to swap as many abortions as possible as a method of birth control to methods of birth control before the fact instead of after the fact, in effect keeping abortions to the smallest number as possible. Far too many in this country seem to have a laissez-faire attitude regarding using abortion as just another a method of birth control on the menu. If someone really doesn't want to have a baby I don't see why at least plan B can't be used more effectively, rather than waiting to have an abortion.
Click to expand...

The reason why both sides can not work together to reduce the # of unwanted pregnancies is because the anti-choice side refuses to do so. Instead, they fight against contraception, deliberately lie to women about sexual and reproductive health, and lobby the govt to reduce and eliminate any funding for services which have proven to reduce the # of unwanted pregnancies.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

code1211 said:
Does anyone have a right to life?
Click to expand...

No! Not only "anyone", but anything. If there was a true right to life, governments would be obligated to attempt to effectively see that nobody is killed in wars, crime, executions by the state, etc. Don't know how that's possible, but apparently you believe there is a way.

The US Constitution says that the STATE can't deny a person...tsk, tsk, tsk, person the right to life, liberty, or property WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW. That means the state can't purposely unjustly kill citizens just because it wants to.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

sangha said:
The reason why both sides can not work together to reduce the # of unwanted pregnancies is because the anti-choice side refuses to do so. Instead, they fight against contraception, deliberately lie to women about sexual and reproductive health, and lobby the govt to reduce and eliminate any funding for services which have proven to reduce the # of unwanted pregnancies.
Click to expand...

And they deny that women have the Constitutional right to equal protection under the law, persons (including women) can't be denied life, liberty, and property "WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW, and all areas of the right to privacy - held equally with "men".
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

code1211 said:
You are free to ignore it and yet you seem to not be capable of doing so.
Click to expand...
Oh I am capable, but why should I. Perhaps you wish that your drivel go unchallenged?

You prefer to dismiss and/or condemn.
Click to expand...
Only when it is appropriate, as with your posts.

A judgmental pro choicer.
Click to expand...
No judgement, just observation and facts.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

sangha said:
Every person has a right to life
Click to expand...

Yeah, every one.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

prometeus said:
Oh I am capable, but why should I. Perhaps you wish that your drivel go unchallenged?

Only when it is appropriate, as with your posts.

No judgement, just observation and facts.
Click to expand...

My, but you do dance divinely.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Moderate Right said:
My apologies to any in this thread whom I have painted with too broad of a brush. While I am against almost all abortions I have found abortion discussions from some on this forum to be disgustingly cold hearted and downright appalling, such as some of the answers to the nine month old fetus discussion and someone actually calling a fetus a gob of goo. I have actually always believed that pro-choicers and pro-lifers could find some common ground in using whatever means was necessary to swap as many abortions as possible as a method of birth control to methods of birth control before the fact instead of after the fact, in effect keeping abortions to the smallest number as possible. Far too many in this country seem to have a laissez-faire attitude regarding using abortion as just another a method of birth control on the menu. If someone really doesn't want to have a baby I don't see why at least plan B can't be used more effectively, rather than waiting to have an abortion.
Click to expand...

The pro-choice crowd isn't likely to be out there teaching abstinence only education.

Access to other forms of birth control, such as condoms and the pill, should be free and easy for our youth. They need to be educated on how and why to use these things. This should be a source of common ground, as both sides of the argument should agree to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

I think the idea that pro-choice means you treat abortion like another method of birth control is abhorrent. I do not think women make this decision so idly with any meaningful frequency.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

David_N said:
When it comes to nine months, I have yet to see anyone present an example of 9 month elective abortions occurring in the united states. Pro choice individuals are the ones who advocate methods that actually work to reduce abortion, such as birth control, sex education, and other such things.
Click to expand...

I know, the drama! The judgement!

For something that isnt happening! I'd hate to see the stress tests for people like that. Getting all worked up over nothing, just in order to frame a dishonest argument and then dishonestly represent the responses. This is how blinded to reality some pro-lifers get. There's more gratification in self-righteousness than facts.
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Moderate Right said:
My apologies to any in this thread whom I have painted with too broad of a brush. While I am against almost all abortions I have found abortion discussions from some on this forum to be disgustingly cold hearted and downright appalling, such as some of the answers to the nine month old fetus discussion and someone actually calling a fetus a gob of goo. I have actually always believed that pro-choicers and pro-lifers could find some common ground in using whatever means was necessary to swap as many abortions as possible as a method of birth control to methods of birth control before the fact instead of after the fact, in effect keeping abortions to the smallest number as possible. Far too many in this country seem to have a laissez-faire attitude regarding using abortion as just another a method of birth control on the menu. If someone really doesn't want to have a baby I don't see why at least plan B can't be used more effectively, rather than waiting to have an abortion.
Click to expand...

Can you please post ANY responses that indicate that pro-choice people do not want to keep abortion to the fewest possible? That we in anyway try to curtail or restrict or not encourage use of birth control and responsible behavior?

Or is this just more self-righteous drama?
 
Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

sangha said:
Every person has a right to life
Click to expand...

So it only a matter of timing, then?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom