Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W:40]

[prometeus]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

If there is no such thing as a right to life then how on Earth can anyone be charged with murder?

It is called a law, we have a great number of them.

Obviously, if someone can be arrested for murder, then the victim had a right to life.

Only to the uneducated and those who are clueless about how a society functions.

Can you define the right to life?

 

[Moderate Right]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

It is called a law, we have a great number of them.

Only to the uneducated and those who are clueless about how a society functions.

Can you define the right to life?

People can talk gobbledy gook all they want. While there can be a difference of opinion regarding fetuses and abortion, people do have a right to life and it does not need a definition.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

People can talk gobbledy gook all they want. While there can be a difference of opinion regarding fetuses and abortion, people do have a right to life and it does not need a definition.

No, people are protected by law ,in the US they are also sometimes protected by states rights, and or by federal rights.

 

[prometeus]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

People can talk gobbledy gook all they want.

Yes that can and your post is a fine example of it.

people do have a right to life and it does not need a definition.

I bet you can not even fathom how absurd that is.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

If there is no such thing as a right to life then how on Earth can anyone be charged with murder? Obviously, if someone can be arrested for murder, then the victim had a right to life. How about those who are big into the black lives matter movement? For the most part we are talking about criminals and thugs who were supposedly murdered by overzealous police. Do they have a right to life or not? Just because the constitution doesn't specifically say anyone has a right to life doesn't mean they don't, otherwise murder could not be a crime.

If people have a right to life, how do we assign police officers and soldiers to kill people ?

Murder is not the same as killing someone, and you don't have the unconditional right to live. Otherwise, we could never enact capital punishment.

 

[sangha]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

If there is no such thing as a right to life then how on Earth can anyone be charged with murder? Obviously, if someone can be arrested for murder, then the victim had a right to life. How about those who are big into the black lives matter movement? For the most part we are talking about criminals and thugs who were supposedly murdered by overzealous police. Do they have a right to life or not? Just because the constitution doesn't specifically say anyone has a right to life doesn't mean they don't, otherwise murder could not be a crime.

If you use the "Reply With Quote" button (located at the lower right hand corner of the post you're responding to) people will know who you're responding to.

 

[sangha]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

If people have a right to life, how do we assign police officers and soldiers to kill people ?

Murder is not the same as killing someone, and you don't have the unconditional right to live. Otherwise, we could never enact capital punishment.

People do have a right to life. However, like all rights, there are limits to it.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

If there is no such thing as a right to life then how on Earth can anyone be charged with murder? Obviously, if someone can be arrested for murder, then the victim had a right to life. How about those who are big into the black lives matter movement? For the most part we are talking about criminals and thugs who were supposedly murdered by overzealous police. Do they have a right to life or not? Just because the constitution doesn't specifically say anyone has a right to life doesn't mean they don't, otherwise murder could not be a crime.

Rights are a man-made concept and our Constitution enumerates those for the US. Our laws then enforce and protect those rights. Our Constitution does refer to people and citizens....but not the unborn. If things are not clear or are challenged, the courts examine those cases. Like they did for blacks and women, and found that they were equal to men, equal citizens. They did the same for the unborn and rejected that they were equal.

It's not arbitrary, it's not imaginary, it's not a mystery. It's grade school history.

Yet you really sound confused.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

People can talk gobbledy gook all they want. While there can be a difference of opinion regarding fetuses and abortion, people do have a right to life and it does not need a definition.

It has been defined. In the Constitution, in many SCOTUS decisions (like for blacks, women, the unborn) and US laws. Our right to life (& the others) cannot be protected if it's not defined.

Here, I'm sure that this has been posted already but I have it bookmard:

U.S. Code § 8 - “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/8

(a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

(b) As used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.

(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being “born alive” as defined in this section.

 

[jpn]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

The right to life as it pertains to a fetus was decided by the Supreme Court in Roe v Wade.

 

[code1211]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Do you think just because Jefferson believed something YOU SHOULD? He was a 100% mortal beings as far as anyone knows. By the way, so was John Locke. The philosophies that revolve around natural rights...is like trying to randomly pick a 100 people, read them some randomly picked bible scripture, read it to them independently and ask them what that scripture means. How many different answers to you think one might get from such an experiment?

Oh, and Jefferson...seem to miss the point that rights applied to ALL PEOPLE....like black people - and lo and behold WOMEN, TOO!.

Our world is dangerous enough with people/governments trying to maintain social order. Left to the devices of the individual to decide what his or her rights are because he or she believes they exist by some happenstance of nature or...or...or... "WHO" or "WHAT"created rights if it wasn't men who created the government?

I believe that the role of government is to protect individual rights that are unalienable. Citing Jefferson as another who also believes this seems to be a pretty good authority to me. You seem to think he's wrong. That's okay.

Because of people like Jefferson, your right to disagree is protected.

 

[code1211]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Of course he's confused. Are you beginning to see a pattern here. EVERYBODY you have exchanges with are confused. But not you. :no:

He called my post drivel. That is a judgment.

He said he was not being judgmental.

He was confused or lying.

I prefer to believe he was confused.

You are right, though. I could be wrong on my assessment of his statement.

 

[code1211]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Not nearly as much as you having a hard time with simple concepts.

What concept(s) might you be talking about?

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

the zef isn't a "living, viable human being," it's zef, and most liberals/progressives recognize the value of women over zefs, since bringing a unwanted pregnancy to term is a burden on the woman. Actually bringing nearly any pregnancy to term is a burden on the woman during and after delivery, but to force one unwanted on a woman,... well a value judgement has to be made, whose "life" is more valuable, a gob of goo or a woman. Most rational people choose the woman.

It looks like someone is gullible dupe. How difficult was it to convince you that a living, viable human being is somehow not a living, viable human being? Could you be convinced that a woman is not a living, viable human...that it's a "woman"?

Essentially you were successfully convinced to completely devalue a human life so as to give priority to a woman's convenience. I think every rational person would agree that that makes you a rather evil person.

Are there any other living humans who you think should be completely devalued for a woman's convenience? Men, maybe?

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I believe that the role of government is to protect individual rights that are unalienable. Citing Jefferson as another who also believes this seems to be a pretty good authority to me. You seem to think he's wrong. That's okay.

Because of people like Jefferson, your right to disagree is protected.

I think Jefferson, Madison, Mason, Hamilton, and most all of the other framers were damn smart men. But what they used to create our Constitution and framework of our Republic wasn't from "original thought". It all came from a compilation of things like the Bill of Rights created in England during the mid 1600s. And the list goes on and on and on. They were educated. They were very familiar with philosophers (who had lived from centuries before up to their present day) whose thoughts about governing were important contributions for future generations. And even impact us today. In other words, our framers didn't invent the wheel.

But all of the influences that moulded Jefferson's beliefs were many, but that doesn't make them holy.

Your understanding of Jefferson's beliefs is a bit mind boggling (in terms of how you deem his beliefs to be so important to us all in our current-day way of life).

It's like you believe that "WE" as a nations (all generations) ALL NEED TO CLING TO JEFFERSON'S EVERY BELIEF and VALUES as though they were inspired by god and was transmitted via Jefferson's work during his participation in helping others build our Republic (Including his significant contribution to writing the Declaration of Independence).

You should know that while Jefferson was the lead player with the DOI, not all of his wording was final - others made revisions.

Yes, my right to disagree is protected. I'll use such right whenever I deem it necessary.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

People do have a right to life. However, like all rights, there are limits to it.

Interesting concept.

For someone who has not committed a crime, what are the limits on his/her right to life?

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

People do have a right to life. However, like all rights, there are limits to it.

I'm not sure I can agree with that, Sangha. From a Constitutional/Legal Standpoint - no we don't. We have the right to not have our lives unjustly terminated by governments. The Due Process clause in the Constitution in the 5th and 14th Amendments is our only link to life, liberty, and property rights.

Or...I simply don't understand what you believe "right to life" means. Most people who subscribe to the belief of "right to life" is an element of natural law/natural rights theories. I simply can't subscribe to such.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I think Jefferson, Madison, Mason, Hamilton, and most all of the other framers were damn smart men. But what they used to create our Constitution and framework of our Republic wasn't from "original thought".

The Constitution was an exceptionally original work that was, as you noted, inspired.

You know very well that the Constitution was not plagiarized.

Original thought. VERY original thought. Sheer brilliance.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

The Constitution was an exceptionally original work that was, as you noted, inspired.

You know very well that the Constitution was not plagiarized.

Original thought. VERY original thought.

They didn't plagiarize, but they didn't invent what went into creating our nation. Very few people on earth have been capable of original thought...in a way that it impacted or impacts nations or humanity.

Well, believe what you will, but again, there was very little original thought by OUR FRAMERS who created the Constitution. There was a lot of historical events from Europe that helped them create our form of Republic and Constitution.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Rights are a man-made concept and our Constitution enumerates those for the US. Our laws then enforce and protect those rights. Our Constitution does refer to people and citizens....but not the unborn.

Exactly. There is nothing in the Constitution that deprives a living human of humanity for being too young (hence no mention of even the "unborn") or for being too old (hence no mention of the "elderly").

...but being too old and/or being too young works for you?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Interesting concept.

For someone who has not committed a crime, what are the limits on his/her right to life?

You just named one.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

They didn't plagiarize, but they didn't invent what went into creating our nation.

They most certainly did. Your assertion is absurd. Yes, the Constitution was inspired, mostly by the Framer's desire for freedom and an abolition of royalty.

The Constitution was clearly original in almost every way.

Very few people on earth have been capable of original thought...in a way that it impacted or impacts nations or humanity.

Every single person that lives cranks out original thought continuously...except for some of the gullible Marxist wamizombies that drool in these forums. No one is capable of understanding the impact that any single person has on the world over the course of his/her life.

Again, your assertion is absurd. I think we're done on this one.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I don't stand up for the rights of "unborn babies" for the same reason I don't stand up for the rights of broccoli.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I don't stand up for the rights of "unborn babies" for the same reason I don't stand up for the rights of broccoli.

I take it you don't value human life? ...or do you just worship broccoli for some reason?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

It looks like someone is gullible dupe. How difficult was it to convince you that a living, viable human being is somehow not a living, viable human being? Could you be convinced that a woman is not a living, viable human...that it's a "woman"?

Essentially you were successfully convinced to completely devalue a human life so as to give priority to a woman's convenience. I think every rational person would agree that that makes you a rather evil person.

Are there any other living humans who you think should be completely devalued for a woman's convenience? Men, maybe?

No one misunderstands the science, that the unborn is human, Homo sapiens. What some seem to misunderstand is that human does not = human being or person or citizen, those that our Constitution recognizes as equal and recognizes their rights.

The unborn is human, it has human DNA. It is not yet a human being, it has not yet developed the characteristics that will make it a human being.

Being a human is a scientific fact. But science does not apply value. Science is objective, 'value' is subjective.

People apply value, it's subjective judgement and in the US we use the Constitution and rights to inform our decisions on the value accorded to humans. All born people are equal, the unborn are not equal to people and do not have any recognized rights. These rights are also a man-made concept and we use our laws to protect and enforce them.

Also interesting is that you imply that the entirety of a woman's life is a 'convenience.' If so, then why is the unborn entitled to that 'convenience' more than she is?