Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W:40]

[Moderate Right]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

My questions and responses to you have been very civil...you just dont like when it's pointed out that you abandon any line of discussion when it gets too difficult for you to support your views or if your preconceived notions are not upheld.

It's sad but interesting if you believe that the 'solutions and answers' to 'difficult issues' will be easy or simple, and that you just give up.

OTOH...why does someone have to 'win?' Is the discussion not worth exploring? Did you come here expecting to 'win' something? It's a discussion forum....you keep quitting the discussions. My reminding you of that doesnt make me a bully, it makes you a quitter.

I personally dont care when the people I'm discussing with dont 'agree' with me. I believe that what I bring to a discussion has value...apparently you do not?

You believe you are right and that if you can just present your facts at infinitum surely the other side will eventually see that you are right. That's why you always have to get the last word in because, in your mind, whoever gets the last word has won the argument. As I've said before, I am not actually a pro-life activist so I don't have a burning desire in my belly to prove to everyone how right I am like you do, especially when I know that this is an endless argument where one side will never change the mind of the other. Most of the problem is a religious one, a belief in God, and a belief in what is morally right or wrong. It involves faith. I'm not particularly religious at all but I do believe in God and I do have a moral compass. It's hard for the left to understand something like that when many don't have the same faith as those who are strongly pro-life and many on the left are just anti-religious themselves. I admit that some of the far right goes to the extreme and the left uses that against everyone on the right, labeling them all as being the same. The left is fine with labeling a whole group but then often fight for not labeling people. In any event, I'm going to do you a favor and let you have the last word, which I know you will, so that you can be right and win the argument and you will feel better about yourself. I don't really care.

 

[sangha]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

If you were more open minded you would see the other side's points and convert. Of course you wouldn't convert, and yet you want the other side to open up their minds and accept your point of view. Very hypocritical.

You don't seem to understand what "open minded" and "hypocritical" mean. Open minded does not mean one *has* to change their mind. It only means that one is willing to consider the evidence without bias and changing their mind is a possibility. Since being open minded does not requiring changing one's opinion, there is nothing hypocritical about not changing one's mind.

Why can't you accept the fact that you wouldn't change your mind no matter what the other side said and also accept the fact that the other side wouldn't change their mind no matter what you said?

If you had paid more attention to the responses you've gotten to your questions, you'd have realized that most of us already know that the odds of anyone changing their opinions about abortion are extremely slim. If you think you're the only one who has noticed this, then you're only fooling yourself.

You believe you are right and that if you can just present your facts at infinitum surely the other side will eventually see that you are right.

And here's an example of you refusing to listen to what people say in response to your posts. Lursa just told you she isn't here to "win" any argument or convince anyone of anything. She specifically stated she is here because she believes the discussion is worth exploring but you just ignore that because it doesn't confirm your biases

 

[RamFel]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

It just dawned on me today that we have a thread on Kim Davis who gets trashed and called a bigot for not being tolerant of gay people's rights and we have another thread where a judge ruled that a lesbian couple can't adopt their foster kid. The left even stands up for the kid's right to be raised by a lesbian couple but they wouldn't stand up for that very same kid's right to life if it hadn't been born yet, even though it is a living, viable human being. The left even stands up for the right of criminals not to be executed but seem to be OK with murdering unborn babies. This is as much of a contradiction to me as the right wing standing up for the right to life of an unborn baby but then they seem to be OK with murdering certain violent criminals. Both sides are nothing but hypocrites.

Right

The left has no cover. In order to survive here, they just lie through their teeth. I have had indignant liberals rail against me for not supporting women as if what I think is a really big deal, but the women are not the the victims here. The babies are. But it goes to show what the left is prepared to do to continue with murders rights.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

You believe you are right and that if you can just present your facts at infinitum surely the other side will eventually see that you are right. That's why you always have to get the last word in because, in your mind, whoever gets the last word has won the argument. As I've said before, I am not actually a pro-life activist so I don't have a burning desire in my belly to prove to everyone how right I am like you do, especially when I know that this is an endless argument where one side will never change the mind of the other. Most of the problem is a religious one, a belief in God, and a belief in what is morally right or wrong. It involves faith. I'm not particularly religious at all but I do believe in God and I do have a moral compass. It's hard for the left to understand something like that when many don't have the same faith as those who are strongly pro-life and many on the left are just anti-religious themselves. I admit that some of the far right goes to the extreme and the left uses that against everyone on the right, labeling them all as being the same. The left is fine with labeling a whole group but then often fight for not labeling people. In any event, I'm going to do you a favor and let you have the last word, which I know you will, so that you can be right and win the argument and you will feel better about yourself. I don't really care.

I do believe I'm right. Do you believe you are right? If you do, you have been unable to articulate it. And it's obvious you have tried, met with resistance, and then quit. It's a highly subjective topic....so that means more than one person can be 'right' or no one or each have valid points.

You make claims, but you dont back them up. Even that you "have a moral compass." It's a discussion forum....why would we just accept that you believe you hold some moral High Ground that others (apparently) do not without challenging you to support that?

Why exactly did you come to this sub-forum? To just tell other people they were wrong?

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I support abortion because the world is bad enough without being born to parents that don't want you.

I hope you realize you aren't talking about abortion at this point; you're talking about yourself and your pessimistic attitude...which is just as valid a viewpoint as any other, but you should just admit that up front, i.e. "I support abortion because I am soured on reality and I think life sucks."

If society did a better job of caring for the most vulnerable citizens

Society is not a person.

it would still be kind of messed up to force an unwanted pregnancy on a woman.

The only person who forces a pregnancy on a woman who is not raped is the woman herself. She accepted the risk of getting pregnant and willingly had sex. Any woman who loses that gamble gets herself pregnant.

That's worth repeating. Any woman who gets pregnant because she opted to have sex GOT HERSELF PREGNANT, i.e. no one forced that pregnancy on her.

So, in your opinion, what did the living human inside her womb do to deserve a death sentence?

What if they didn't want to get fat and risk stretch marks?

Exactly! What if the woman who got herself pregnant doesn't want any inconvenience in her life wh

Like you could offer caesarians or whatever to protect the vagina but can you make sure they don't get stretch marks?

Are you for real? You make my point for me about as well as humanly possible.

Even if the female just got drunk and had unprotected sex and got pregnant that way it would be a lot to ask of them to have an unwanted pregnancy.

What if killing you would prevent a woman from getting more stretch marks?

And what if a condom just broke?

This is a very real risk of sex...and if a woman accepts this risk and gets pregnant then she got herself pregnant.

Nowhere in your post do you imply that women should be held accountable/responsible for their decisions. Should women be required to pay back loans?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

This is a very real risk of sex...and if a woman accepts this risk and gets pregnant then she got herself pregnant.

Nowhere in your post do you imply that women should be held accountable/responsible for their decisions. Should women be required to pay back loans?

And then she has every right to get herself 'unpregnant,' LMAO.

Women do know the risks...and they know their options. Just because you dont 'like' one of their options has no bearing at all on the fact that she has these choices.

That you 'choose' to ignore that not having a kid you cant care for or cant afford is indeed a responsible act is your error (and a willful one, since you have been told more than once that it is provably responsible).

You make lots of claims, but dont support them, thus it's easy to recognize opinion based on judgement and emotion, not 'fact.'

People like sex and they're not going to stop having it, nor are they going to be forced to follow your dictates regarding any outcomes.

 

[D_NATURED]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

You believe you are right and that if you can just present your facts at infinitum surely the other side will eventually see that you are right. That's why you always have to get the last word in because, in your mind, whoever gets the last word has won the argument. As I've said before, I am not actually a pro-life activist so I don't have a burning desire in my belly to prove to everyone how right I am like you do, especially when I know that this is an endless argument where one side will never change the mind of the other. Most of the problem is a religious one, a belief in God, and a belief in what is morally right or wrong. It involves faith. I'm not particularly religious at all but I do believe in God and I do have a moral compass. It's hard for the left to understand something like that when many don't have the same faith as those who are strongly pro-life and many on the left are just anti-religious themselves. I admit that some of the far right goes to the extreme and the left uses that against everyone on the right, labeling them all as being the same. The left is fine with labeling a whole group but then often fight for not labeling people. In any event, I'm going to do you a favor and let you have the last word, which I know you will, so that you can be right and win the argument and you will feel better about yourself. I don't really care.

You're right about one thing, god is a big part of the problem. Absent the tenacious ignorance of "believers", who don't feel any obligation to have their opinions make sense to anyone but an invisible deity, this conversation could focus on the facts of reality, medical, social and legal. Instead, those who support the right of physical autonomy for women must waste our breath and our brains arguing with those who have zero intellectual credibility and, as you aptly put "really don't care".

Sam Harris, in his book "The End of Faith", nailed it when he called religion a "conversation stopper". That's what it really is, just a way of saying I don't have to understand or care about or respond to any reality that I haven't invented for myself. The idea of using your faith as a justification for selectively ignoring human suffering is the dark heart of faith that you never hear about.

Well, I give mindless faith but a few more generations before its uncomfortable exposure to the light of scrutiny- for the first time in recorded history- puts an end to this vestigial relic of human cultural evolution. Enjoy your cop-out while it lasts. Some day soon, human kind might have to start making sense. When that day arrives, the faithful will go the way of other dinosaurs.