Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W:40]

[sangha]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

You can't claim that equal protection under the law bestows one living human MORE rights than another living human.

Sure I can because it's a fact - the unborn have NO rights while the born have rights.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

Sure I can because it's a fact - the unborn have NO rights while the born have rights.

This should be repeated.
Roe rejected the fetal right to life argument.
The unborn no matter what name one uses to describe them have no rights.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

Incorrect. You can't claim that equal protection under the law bestows one living human MORE rights than another living human.

This might help you better understand. (Thanks Minnie!)

Forced pregnancy means risk of medical harm with no input from the woman.

Forced pregnancy reduces the status of a pregnant woman “autonomous adult citizen” to “lesser person.”

Forced pregnancy is a verdict or judgment, but without due process of law.

Held to a fate against her will. Deprived of the right to get out of the situation. Unable to refuse the work involved. Receiving no compensation. That's the very essence of slavery.

~~Kit Pitman

I realize that this doesnt make sense to people that 'blame' women for getting pregnant like it's some kind of sin or crime. If someone wants to blame women for their normal enjoyment of sex, one of the great pleasures in life that people are all entitled to, then of course no amount of rational explanations or ethics will change that mind.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

This should be repeated.
Roe rejected the fetal right to life argument.
The unborn no matter what name one uses to describe them have no rights.

*sigh* use legal arguments to support pro-choice and then you get accused of 'is the law always right? What about the moral view?'

Use ethical or moral arguments and it seems there is little to no acknowlegement that ethics and morals also apply to women :doh

It goes back and forth and allows for avoiding answering the tough questions....like how could we treat the born and unborn equally: legally, ethically, practically?

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

Even tho it's been explained to you before,

You mean "Even though the lame justification for irresponsibility has been whined in your direction before..."

Just because you prefer to judge a woman and pretend to know what's best for her life (or just dont care)

I have never pretended to know what's best for any woman. Why are you desperately trying to change the subject?

....that doesnt change the fact that abortion is a responsible option.

Another nice dodge. It looks like you're tipping your king.

Please try to realize that your 'feelings' on this dont matter when it comes to women's lives.

Great topic change! I'll consider your king officially tipped.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

This might help you better understand.

What is there to understand? Your perception that irresponsibility is to be celebrated and rewarded, and that living humans who committed no crimes should be summarily executed?

Not likely.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

What is there to understand? Your perception that irresponsibility is to be celebrated and rewarded, and that living humans who committed no crimes should be summarily executed?

Not likely.

Oh the drama! As I wrote, you should try separating your feelings from the facts on the issue so that you can examine it properly.

Using hyperbole will only fool the ignorant and shows the user has little in the way of rational argument.

So once again, your 'na huh!' exposes a lack of argument.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

You mean "Even though the lame justification for irresponsibility has been whined in your direction before..."


I have never pretended to know what's best for any woman. Why are you desperately trying to change the subject?



Another nice dodge. It looks like you're tipping your king.



Great topic change! I'll consider your king officially tipped.

More 'na huh?' Not a single thing rebutted, just "because I said so!"

Except that you did indeed prove at least one of my arguments: you do not consider women at all on the issue of abortion.

Thank you! With that admission, I hope someday you will move forward.

Edit: it's funny but when your post is quoted like that, it PROVES that you answered nothing, there isnt a single bit of content added to the argument there :lamo

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

Sure I can because it's a fact - the unborn have NO rights while the born have rights.

You weren't very good at the logic thing, were you? Did you learn that "semantic shift" thing from Lursa?

I'll go slowly for you. Let me know if I'm going too fast.

*If* we were change the law to afford equal protection under the law, regardless of age, you would not be able to validly claim that anyone therefore has MORE rights than anyone else.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

you do not consider women at all on the issue of abortion.

You prove my point. You consider any implication that a human life should be treated with a higher priority than a woman's convenience as women not being afforded ANY consideration.

As I said, when your values are completely hosed, there's no way you can hold a logical conversation.

 

[IB daMann]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

Using hyperbole will only fool the ignorant and shows the user has little in the way of rational argument.

Referring to a completely accurate statement as "hyperbole" just because it exposes the backwards nature of your position shows your true colors just as effectively.

Good job!

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

*If* we were change the law to afford equal protection under the law, regardless of age, you would not be able to validly claim that anyone therefore has MORE rights than anyone else.

Once again you state this, but have yet to place any foundation of reality...legally or morally...underneath it.

This is because it is a fantasy that you choose to cling to. If you want to, that' fine. As long as you understand why it will not be forced on others who do not agree.

Or, prove we can change the laws to provide equal protection and not violate women's rights (or the assumed rights of unborn)...give us some examples.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

You prove my point. You consider any implication that a human life should be treated with a higher priority than a woman's convenience as women not being afforded ANY consideration.

As I said, when your values are completely hosed, there's no way you can hold a logical conversation.

Once again you state this, but have yet to place any foundation of reality...legally or morally...underneath it.

This is because it is a fantasy that you choose to cling to. If you want to, that' fine. As long as you understand why it will not be forced on others who do not agree.

And your judgement of me is 100% meaningless. We've already seen how you consider women (actually, that you dont) so the thought that you have any moral High Ground here at all is a joke.

Let us know when you can explain why, if the entirety of someone's life is nothing but conveniences, you want it so much for the unborn, and feel justified in denying it to women?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

Referring to a completely accurate statement as "hyperbole" just because it exposes the backwards nature of your position shows your true colors just as effectively.

Good job!

Anyone looking at your post...when my actual arguments are removed for context...can see it is empty of anything but hyperbole and no rebuttals at all, lol. That's why I pointed that out, I'm not sure why you'd continue to call attention to it :mrgreen:

 

[minnie616]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

You mean "Even though the lame justification for irresponsibility has been whine in your direction before ..."...

There is no irresponsibility when a woman becomes pregnant from a birth control failure.
In fact 65 percent of women of child bearing years in the USA do use artificial birth control correctly and consistanly.

 

[sangha]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

*If* we were change the law to afford equal protection under the law, regardless of age, you would not be able to validly claim that anyone therefore has MORE rights than anyone else.

*If* we were to change the law to afford equal protection to pigs under the law, you would not be able to validly claim that anyone therefore has MORE rights than a pig

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

You weren't very good at the logic thing, were you? Did you learn that "semantic shift" thing from Lursa?

I'll go slowly for you. Let me know if I'm going too fast.

*If* we were change the law to afford equal protection under the law, regardless of age, you would not be able to validly claim that anyone therefore has MORE rights than anyone else.

You're claim is absolutely 100% impossible to achieve.

You can't even site examples of how personhood rights for the yet to born can be constructed without diminishing the rights of the born.

There's valid reasons for the born not including the unborn as a person.

But continue on. I can't wait to see how YOU can make the yet to be born's dreams come true. It would be better than the Pinocchio Story.

Fire away. I'm excited.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

How unborn? The fact of the matter is there are degrees of development. Most States, even Conservative States like here in Texas, cut off selective abortion somewhere around 21-22 weeks, know why that is? It is because one does not have an actual brain with frontal cortex before that time, and anyone that actually knows their science knows this is where WE live, without it YOU can not be, hence it is logical and scientific point where only special circumstances can you still have an abortion. I personally agree with that but would add that we as a Nation and people should promote adoption as a better alternative even if the States has to help foot the bill for the birth and placement of the child.

Adoption will never be the first choice for women who have an unwanted pregnancy "for most women". And for several logical reasons. The main reason being that an offspring is their flesh and blood, who will be handed over to people they know nothing about. And is she willing to furnish adoptive parents private information about her and everybody she's related to in case the child needs the medical history, which might save its life? She'll know her child is in the custody of others and will have zero input about the future of that child's growing up experiences.

Why can't those who so fiercely fight for fetuses do the same for children who exist among the born? Wanna talk about adoption? Why it's a failure?

How is it possible that 10s of thousands of children in the Child Protective Services system are NEVER adopted. So many children spend a nightmare childhood in the system unwanted by people who claim that they want children.

What most are really saying is that they want "white, pristine, have some type of family history available baby that's under the age of 9 months old". All other children outside that description - many live out their entire childhood in the system.

When people start meeting the needs of born children...I'm really willing to bet our communities, states...our nation will all be better for it. Pro-life is going to have to step out of their failed puritan beliefs and focus on helping children that exist.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

People can talk gobbledy gook all they want. While there can be a difference of opinion regarding fetuses and abortion, people do have a right to life and it does not need a definition.

Walk to a pride of lions with a couple of raw steaks in your hand and tell them you have a right to life... :lol:

 

[Bodi]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

*If* we were to change the law to afford equal protection to pigs under the law, you would not be able to validly claim that anyone therefore has MORE rights than a pig

*IF* pigs could fly... that thought always makes me smile.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babie...

What is there to understand? Your perception that irresponsibility is to be celebrated and rewarded, and that living humans who committed no crimes should be summarily executed?

Not likely.

Humans only alive by the mothers consent...

 

[Bodi]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

But I thought that the fetus is a gob of goo with no right to life until born? How can a doctor be liable for damaging a gob of goo that isn't even human? The left has a double standard here. If they want to abort a fetus it is because the fetus doesn't have a right to life and is nothing but a gob of goo but if the woman decides to have the baby all of a sudden it does have the right to life and is not a gob of goo.

It is a gob of goo at the begining up until viability and any time the mother wants it the baby has a right to life. No double standard about it...

 

[Moderate Right]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Walk to a pride of lions with a couple of raw steaks in your hand and tell them you have a right to life... :lol:

What a ridiculous argument.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

What a ridiculous argument.

We'd be happy to hear you support yours in more detail...or respond to our questions which have been very civilly and constructively posted.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

What a ridiculous argument.

It goes to the very core of the argument and since you don't even attempt to refute it we can clearly see that you are in over your head...