Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W:40]

[KevinKohler]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

A bloody mess could describe a lot of things. I still think it's disgusting to compare an aborted fetus to an appendix that was removed. Please refer to post #43.

What's the difference between me banging my wife, and pulling out at the last second, or me NOT pulling out, and her taking a morning after pill? BOTH are a denial of life for something. One is just a denial that comes a little later. What's the difference between taking a morning after pill and getting an abortion at 8 weeks? Again, both are a denial of life, but one comes a little later than the other.


Do you understand what a slippery slope fallacy is?

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I don't think you believe anyone has rights, then.

Interesting conclusion.



What's a "right"? Do you define it as being something that can't be taken from you, a sort of social guarantee?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

It just dawned on me today that we have a thread on Kim Davis who gets trashed and called a bigot for not being tolerant of gay people's rights and we have another thread where a judge ruled that a lesbian couple can't adopt their foster kid. The left even stands up for the kid's right to be raised by a lesbian couple but they wouldn't stand up for that very same kid's right to life if it hadn't been born yet, even though it is a living, viable human being. The left even stands up for the right of criminals not to be executed but seem to be OK with murdering unborn babies. This is as much of a contradiction to me as the right wing standing up for the right to life of an unborn baby but then they seem to be OK with murdering certain violent criminals. Both sides are nothing but hypocrites.

After birth is when someone's rights can be upheld without violating the rights of someone else (without due process). Before birth, the unborn has no rights that can be separated from the mother (physically, legally, ethically, practically). It's a dependency that truly demonstrates that it is not equal.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

The judge reversed his decision in that case but, the child wasn't who they supported.... It was the Gay couple.

They still didnt deny the kid had rights for goodness sake.

Do you think that if the judge had thought it was not in the kid's best interests, he/she would have allowed the adoption?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I'd like you to ask every single pregnant woman out there in the US that intends on having their baby if they think their baby has any rights. If a fetus has no right to life then how can a doctor be sued for malpractice if they do something wrong during the pregnancy that either causes the fetus's death or causes the baby severe health problems after it is born? I mean if the doctor does something bad during the time period the fetus had no rights then the doctor should be free and clear.

Why can people who's dogs or cats die sue vets for malpractice? Do the dogs and cats have rights? No, the suits are on behalf of the owners.

It's about the perceived value to the owners, or mother/parents and the suits are brought in 'their' interests.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

In other words, murdering fetuses is better for society so that makes it OK.

Can you describe any harm to society that has been done in over 40 yrs of legal abortion?

(btw, the characterization of murder is emotional rhetoric and doenst factor into rational people's considerations in the debate, no matter which side they're on.)

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Yes, but I've had a miscarriage and seen exactly what a 12 week zef looks like, and it looks exactly like a bloody lugie, about the same size, same texture, no definable features. ... Reality bites, but it's where I prefer to converse from, not some Hallmark bs view of things.

I'm sorry about your miscarriage.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Gee’s To respond to this is like walking thru a liberal mine field, your query is mostly based on abortion and gay rights. I have absolutely no issue with gay folks getting married or doing whatever, this is not my business nor should it be the governments business

Abortion, well this is a bit more complicated, the cover of women’s health issues is nonsense with the current level of this killing and carnage, and yes it is now killing and selling body parts for profit. Sorry girls and boys, abortion is not a form of contraception, that should have been figured out before you both had sex. This is not an absolute women’s issue because she physically holds the vessel for the outcome of bad choices, it should be a 50/50 decision.

As for children being adopted with gay couples, this should not be encouraged, there is a natural law aspect, this is not a homophobic statement but the truth. We all give up choices with lifestyle, I can’t have all and sorry to say ether can you.

"Natural law" is a philosophy made up by man, so why should other people be forced to abide by it?

Most sensible people recognize that kids without parents are better off with loving parents/parent.

 

[Summerwind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I'm sorry about your miscarriage.

I'm not. I didn't want it, it wasn't planned. I would not have aborted it, as I was well married and had two kids already. BUT, when it started to slip from the uterine wall and I was told I'd likely have to be bed ridden for the remainder of the pregnancy to assure it's birth,... I said no way. I had two children already needing their mother and a husband that traveled for work and no nearby relatives. No way at all that I was going to let my live children suffer for an unplanned pregnancy requiring total bed rest, or reclining at any rate regardless of resting.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

It just dawned on me today that we have a thread on Kim Davis who gets trashed and called a bigot for not being tolerant of gay people's rights and we have another thread where a judge ruled that a lesbian couple can't adopt their foster kid. The left even stands up for the kid's right to be raised by a lesbian couple but they wouldn't stand up for that very same kid's right to life if it hadn't been born yet, even though it is a living, viable human being. The left even stands up for the right of criminals not to be executed but seem to be OK with murdering unborn babies. This is as much of a contradiction to me as the right wing standing up for the right to life of an unborn baby but then they seem to be OK with murdering certain violent criminals. Both sides are nothing but hypocrites.

well i myself am not on the left but i can tell you that what you describe is NOT even the general and stereotypical stance of the left. Maybe stick with reality or be more specific on who you are talkgin about.
Also look up the word murder, you used it wrong twice. LMAO

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I'm not. I didn't want it, it wasn't planned. I would not have aborted it, as I was well married and had two kids already. BUT, when it started to slip from the uterine wall and I was told I'd likely have to be bed ridden for the remainder of the pregnancy to assure it's birth,... I said no way. I had two children already needing their mother and a husband that traveled for work and no nearby relatives. No way at all that I was going to let my live children suffer for an unplanned pregnancy requiring total bed rest, or reclining at any rate regardless of resting.

A well-stated personal perspective. I wonder if there are people here on the forum (as a subset of America) that believe you should have been forced to do bedrest against your will in order to preserve the unborn?

 

[Summerwind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

As for children being adopted with gay couples, this should not be encouraged, there is a natural law aspect, this is not a homophobic statement but the truth. We all give up choices with lifestyle, I can’t have all and sorry to say ether can you.

In order to not entirely derail the thread just give me a quick yes or no, would it be alright if two spinster sisters adopted and raised an orphan?

 

[Summerwind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

A well-stated personal perspective. I wonder if there are people here on the forum (as a subset of America) that believe you should have been forced to do bedrest against your will in order to preserve the unborn?

Actually, I didn't realize my doc was a Seventh Day Adventist. He sort of threatened to contact my husband, as though that would do any good, but in some more backward places,... even in Idaho with an entirely different doctor, I had to have my husband come to the docs office when I was going to have a hysterectomy because the doc wouldn't do it unless he was sure it was okay with my husband. In fairness though, normally I would have told the doc to kiss my grits, but there had just been a doc murdered in Utah iirc by a husband because he gave the wife a hysterectomy and she (the wife) didn't tell the husband til after. So under that circumstance, I complied with the request.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Actually, I didn't realize my doc was a Seventh Day Adventist. He sort of threatened to contact my husband, as though that would do any good, but in some more backward places,... even in Idaho with an entirely different doctor, I had to have my husband come to the docs office when I was going to have a hysterectomy because the doc wouldn't do it unless he was sure it was okay with my husband. In fairness though, normally I would have told the doc to kiss my grits, but there had just been a doc murdered in Utah iirc by a husband because he gave the wife a hysterectomy and she (the wife) didn't tell the husband til after. So under that circumstance, I complied with the request.

Wow. Can I ask what year this was?

 

[Summerwind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Wow. Can I ask what year this was?

Which the miscarriage or the hysterectomy?

Here's the news story. Apparently it was only a tube tying, I thought it was a full hysterectomy.

Alta View Hospital Shooting | Utah man surrenders after 17-hour standoff Gunman kills one at suburban hospital NTCSO: ASSOCIATED PRESS - tribunedigital-baltimoresun

 

[sangha]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I must say that I am extremely appalled at the left's posts in this thread. Some are truly gruesome. These descriptions remind me of some of the things they rail against when defending gays and, in particular, blacks. It wasn't that long ago when blacks were considered property and not even human beings and, as such, sometimes didn't even deserve to live. If they weren't good slaves you could just shoot them or string them up in a tree. They had no rights of any kind because they were not human. They weren't much better than a gob of goo. That's appalling to the majority of us now and yet these are the same heartless descriptions that the left is using to describe fetuses.

Under the constitution, blacks have always been considered persons. Once again, your claims do not comport with reality. Don't believe me? Read the Constitution:

Article I, Section. 2 [Slaves count as 3/5 persons]
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [i.e., slaves].

Article I, Section. 9, clause 1. [No power to ban slavery until 1808]
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Article IV, Section. 2. [Free states cannot protect slaves]
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

Note how the constitutional excerpts all refer to slaves as "persons". The unborn, on the other hand, are not persons so they have no rights.

 

[Peter King]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

It just dawned on me today that we have a thread on Kim Davis who gets trashed and called a bigot for not being tolerant of gay people's rights and we have another thread where a judge ruled that a lesbian couple can't adopt their foster kid. The left even stands up for the kid's right to be raised by a lesbian couple but they wouldn't stand up for that very same kid's right to life if it hadn't been born yet, even though it is a living, viable human being. The left even stands up for the right of criminals not to be executed but seem to be OK with murdering unborn babies. This is as much of a contradiction to me as the right wing standing up for the right to life of an unborn baby but then they seem to be OK with murdering certain violent criminals. Both sides are nothing but hypocrites.

Standing up for the child's right to live and happiness is exactly why "the left" speaks up against moronic judges who have antiquated ideas about adoption and that is the way it should be.

Why do conservatives stand up for zygotes but could care less when they are born? Why would you force a poor woman to have her eighth kid but on the other hand call for her food aid to be scrapped because "we are not living in a socialist state"? Why do some conservatives worship the right to life of 2 cells more than the rights and life of a raped woman? Or a woman who could die if the ZEF is not aborted?

Then again, why do conservatives so hate the right of women in general and a women's right specifically?

 

[Peter King]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

The judge reversed his decision in that case but, the child wasn't who they supported.... It was the Gay couple.

That is false, we supported both the happiness and future of the child as well as the rights of the couple who where raising that child. Supporting the gay couple is the exact same thing as supporting the child.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I'd like you to ask every single pregnant woman out there in the US that intends on having their baby if they think their baby has any rights. If a fetus has no right to life then how can a doctor be sued for malpractice if they do something wrong during the pregnancy that either causes the fetus's death or causes the baby severe health problems after it is born? I mean if the doctor does something bad during the time period the fetus had no rights then the doctor should be free and clear.

If they believed that the yet to be born had rights, then they would probably be a living example of that belief, despite it being false, and continue on with the pregnancy.

Most pro-choice women won't have an abortion unless there's significant reason. Most conceptions are brought to full term.

Malpractice suits don't have anything to do with "rights of a fetus". They have to do with "Standard of Care" issues or "Negligence".

People can be exonerated in a criminal trial for murder and be sued for "wrongful death" and be found guilty. Such is the case for O.J. Simpson.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

It just dawned on me today that we have a thread on Kim Davis who gets trashed and called a bigot for not being tolerant of gay people's rights and we have another thread where a judge ruled that a lesbian couple can't adopt their foster kid. The left even stands up for the kid's right to be raised by a lesbian couple but they wouldn't stand up for that very same kid's right to life if it hadn't been born yet, even though it is a living, viable human being. The left even stands up for the right of criminals not to be executed but seem to be OK with murdering unborn babies. This is as much of a contradiction to me as the right wing standing up for the right to life of an unborn baby but then they seem to be OK with murdering certain violent criminals. Both sides are nothing but hypocrites.

I am not on the left and I am pro choice because it's not the govt's business if a woman has an abortion. No woman should be forced to gestate and give birth against her will.

There is nothing wrong with gays adopting children that are in the system and need loving homes.

I am very much pro death penalty.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

Can you describe any harm to society that has been done in over 40 yrs of legal abortion?

If your "society" isn't harmed by such inhumanity, then perhaps it should be harmed more directly.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

If your "society" isn't harmed by such inhumanity, then perhaps it should be harmed more directly.

Please feel free to explain the specifics, share your private fantasies and tell us what that harm to society has been. And links to actual factual info would help LOL.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

One could make the argument even after birth you should be dissected as flawed and not worthy of life. Hell we may learn why we have idiots such as yourself in this world. You need to spend a day at an abortion clinic as these 18 to 24 week “no rights “ children are slaughtered for women’s health rights.

Awh man you called me an idiot! Also Ive been to a "clinic" thank you very much.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

One could make the argument even after birth you should be dissected as flawed and not worthy of life. Hell we may learn why we have idiots such as yourself in this world. You need to spend a day at an abortion clinic as these 18 to 24 week “no rights “ children are slaughtered for women’s health rights.

Please tell us where these facilties are. Are you claiming you've been to one/more? Please provide something to prove these exist in the US.

Because I call bull****.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Why does the left stand up for the rights of everyone except for unborn babies?[W

I don't think you believe anyone has rights, then.

That was quite the strawman you built there.