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Why does Israel have to be a "Jewish" state?

Chris

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Is Israeli's status as a Jewish state really essential to it's survival?
 

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I have but two words:

Oy vey!

:2brickwal
 

shuamort

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Take away the mythologies from the equation and what's left?
 

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1. Firstly, I don't know if you've noticed, but people keep trying to kill us. That's pretty much the summary of every Jewish holiday - "They tried to kill us but we won, let's eat!"

Therefore, a homeland would be nice. I like being alive.

2. As ludahai said, if it's not Jewish, it could easily become Muslim, which in that area could easily become fundamentalist, which would be bad.

And it's not as if the state's religion really has that much impact on day-to-day life. The UK's not a secular nation either, but it's not really worth fussing over.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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vergiss said:
1. Firstly, I don't know if you've noticed, but people keep trying to kill us. That's pretty much the summary of every Jewish holiday - "They tried to kill us but we won, let's eat!"

Therefore, a homeland would be nice. I like being alive.
You can't share a homeland?

2. As ludahai said, if it's not Jewish, it could easily become Muslim, which in that area could easily become fundamentalist, which would be bad.
About 76% of the population of Israel identifies itself as "Jewish," I really don't think you have that much to worry about. Over 5 million Jews could certainly offset any efforts to radicalize the area.

And it's not as if the state's religion really has that much impact on day-to-day life. The UK's not a secular nation either, but it's not really worth fussing over.
What's the immigration policy on Jews towards Israel?
 

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vergiss said:
1. Firstly, I don't know if you've noticed, but people keep trying to kill us. That's pretty much the summary of every Jewish holiday - "They tried to kill us but we won, let's eat!"

Therefore, a homeland would be nice. I like being alive.

2. As ludahai said, if it's not Jewish, it could easily become Muslim, which in that area could easily become fundamentalist, which would be bad.

And it's not as if the state's religion really has that much impact on day-to-day life. The UK's not a secular nation either, but it's not really worth fussing over.
To be fair the state of isreal kills inocent palestininans. Shoots peaceful demonstators , bulldoses homes, builds large walls around peoples comunitys e.t.c so no its understandable that the palestinian people are angry. I reckon either a neutral state or two separate states is the way to go.
 

Chris

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vergiss said:
1. Firstly, I don't know if you've noticed, but people keep trying to kill us. That's pretty much the summary of every Jewish holiday - "They tried to kill us but we won, let's eat!"

Therefore, a homeland would be nice. I like being alive.
So if I understand you correctly Israel's status as a Jewish state is primarily about survival, yes? If the Muslims stopped trying to destroy Israel on the condition that they be allowed to co-exist with the Jews do you still feel that Israel must be a Jewish state?

vergiss said:
2. As ludahai said, if it's not Jewish, it could easily become Muslim, which in that area could easily become fundamentalist, which would be bad.
If Israel willingly allowed the Arab refugees to return and re-established itself as a non-denominational nation do you feel the Muslims would still want an Islamic state?
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Chris said:
If Israel willingly allowed the Arab refugees to return and re-established itself as a non-denominational nation do you feel the Muslims would still want an Islamic state?
I think that would certainly be attempted at least to some degree, but it would have to be done by a democratic process. In the time it took to even attempt such a reform, Muslims and Jews would be living together under a single flag in a single nation.

I do not think that men like Ahmadinejad would back down from anti-Jewish statements, but it would certainly start the process of peace between the two peoples. I'm not saying it would be incredibly smooth, but it is the best solution.

What do you think such a state should be called?

Could it really still be called Israel? Could it be called Palestine? I don't think either of those would work. I believe a whole new national identity would have to be created.
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
What do you think such a state should be called?QUOTE]

Caanan or Phoenica perhaps? Those seem fairly neutral.
 

Tashah

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Lol. I seem to recollect a UN Resolution partitioning the area into Israel (Jewish) and Palestine (Muslim) about 58 years ago. Strange how you UN loving liberals have a nasty habit of forgetting (Liberalnesia?) such inconvenient UN'isms.

Gandhi, what a surprise to see you here lol. Not to worry. I'd be pleased as punch to send out a few invitations :smile:


 

Gandhi>Bush

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Tashah said:
Lol. I seem to recollect a UN Resolution partitioning the area into Israel (Jewish) and Palestine (Muslim) about 58 years ago. Strange how you UN loving liberals have a nasty habit of forgetting (Liberalnesia?) such inconvenient UN'isms.
I think the idea of the UN has potential, but in its current practice today its as without use as much as it is without action.

The partition was a bad idea. Period.
 

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Tashah said:
Lol. I seem to recollect a UN Resolution partitioning the area into Israel (Jewish) and Palestine (Muslim) about 58 years ago. Strange how you UN loving liberals have a nasty habit of forgetting (Liberalnesia?) such inconvenient UN'isms.

Gandhi, what a surprise to see you here lol. Not to worry. I'd be pleased as punch to send out a few invitations :smile:



yes, because the UN is full of power :roll:



Honestly, if it is going to be partitioned, somebody will make a concession before it happens, or it never truely will..
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
You can't share a homeland?
I've said it before but it's still fun to say.

While your pie in the sky attitude looks good on paper and actually did work: once, dude, you are just comic material. They brainwash their children to strap bombs to theirselves and go blow up other children. What friggin part of that don't you get? Now let's hold hands and sing Cumbaya. Pay no attention to that boom, it's just another exploding teen hangout.

A bunch of you people seem to have a problem with Israel defending itself. Why is that?

Never forget Hillary got close enough to Arafat to poke him in the eye, she chose to kiss him.

This seems like a good subject to harp on for a while...
 

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Chris said:
So if I understand you correctly Israel's status as a Jewish state is primarily about survival, yes? If the Muslims stopped trying to destroy Israel on the condition that they be allowed to co-exist with the Jews do you still feel that Israel must be a Jewish state?


If Israel willingly allowed the Arab refugees to return and re-established itself as a non-denominational nation do you feel the Muslims would still want an Islamic state?
Do you read what you just wrote?
 

Attachments

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I have one answer to the question....

Yes.
 

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Why can't people share a Jewish state? It's not like you have to be Jewish to recieve the same rights or get ahead in life. People who aren't Church of England get along in Britain just fine. So long as they're co-existing peacefully, what's the harm in it remaining Jewish?
 

Caine

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vergiss said:
Why can't people share a Jewish state? It's not like you have to be Jewish to recieve the same rights or get ahead in life. People who aren't Church of England get along in Britain just fine. So long as they're co-existing peacefully, what's the harm in it remaining Jewish?
There is no harm.....
Personally, I don't think it could be called Israel if it were not a Jewish state.
 

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teacher said:
I've said it before but it's still fun to say.

While your pie in the sky attitude looks good on paper and actually did work: once, dude, you are just comic material. They brainwash their children to strap bombs to theirselves and go blow up other children. What friggin part of that don't you get? Now let's hold hands and sing Cumbaya. Pay no attention to that boom, it's just another exploding teen hangout.
Ahh the ultimate hypebole of my position. So much so, that it's not even a gathering of nonviolence, it's a gathering of some sort of choral stupidity. Perhaps I could twist your position so that it is supportive of the racist riots in Australia. We could go around singing Bruce Springstien and kicking any one with dark skin in the teeth... That's your position, right?

A bunch of you people seem to have a problem with Israel defending itself. Why is that?
I have a problem with Israel defending itself in a way that will never bring a solution to the problem.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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vergiss said:
Why can't people share a Jewish state? It's not like you have to be Jewish to recieve the same rights or get ahead in life. People who aren't Church of England get along in Britain just fine. So long as they're co-existing peacefully, what's the harm in it remaining Jewish?
Because I feel that the only way to heal the wounds of the displacement of a few hundred thousand Arabs, is unity.

The "Jewish Homeland" was created by making many many many people homeless and by segregating to peoples. I think creating a wholly new state that gives peoples homes and puts people together, is a good start at trying to end the injustice.

The destruction of Israel would mean the displacement of some 5 million Jews and would do nothing to end the said injustice, it would only create more. That's why I believe that Palestine and Israel have to unite. I'm not saying it would be smooth or painless, but it something that would in the end fix the whole problem, not strategic missile strikes or bus bombings.
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Ahh the ultimate hypebole of my position. So much so, that it's not even a gathering of nonviolence, it's a gathering of some sort of choral stupidity. Perhaps I could twist your position so that it is supportive of the racist riots in Australia. We could go around singing Bruce Springstien and kicking any one with dark skin in the teeth... That's your position, right?
Not familiar with the Australian race riots. Let's stick with Isreal, eh? Don't put words in my mouth.


I have a problem with Israel defending itself in a way that will never bring a solution to the problem.
How many times Gandhi, has Israel made a cease fire, to then endure a suicide bombing? They suck it up and don't respond. Then comes another. And another. How many should they endure until you say it's okay to respond? It's not your children being targeted. If you had to bury Gandhi Jr. I think you might change your tune quick like. So how are they supposed to defend theirselves? How about they build a big wall and just keep the killers out? Is there any other option? The Arabs are simply not gonna be happy until they drive the Jews into the sea. They've said so.
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Because I feel that the only way to heal the wounds of the displacement of a few hundred thousand Arabs, is unity.

The "Jewish Homeland" was created by making many many many people homeless and by segregating to peoples. I think creating a wholly new state that gives peoples homes and puts people together, is a good start at trying to end the injustice.

The destruction of Israel would mean the displacement of some 5 million Jews and would do nothing to end the said injustice, it would only create more. That's why I believe that Palestine and Israel have to unite. I'm not saying it would be smooth or painless, but it something that would in the end fix the whole problem, not strategic missile strikes or bus bombings.
It was designed as a Jewish homeland. What's the freaking point of the UN giving it to the Jews in the first place, then?

Israel tried to unite, and the Palestinians threw a hissy fit and wanted Gaza and the West Bank. Now their leaders say they want all of Israel back. It's important we share with the peaceful Palestinians, but the radicals won't accept anything less than a Muslim country. They're not going to just quieten down and move on with life if it becomes a secular state.

Why should we have to give up our one and only country to make a bunch of terrorists happy, anyway? Yeah, giving in is a good thing. :roll:
 

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teacher said:
Don't put words in my mouth.
Don't put words in mine. I never said anything about Cumbaya.

How many times Gandhi, has Israel made a cease fire, to then endure a suicide bombing? They suck it up and don't respond. Then comes another. And another. How many should they endure until you say it's okay to respond? It's not your children being targeted. If you had to bury Gandhi Jr. I think you might change your tune quick like. So how are they supposed to defend theirselves? How about they build a big wall and just keep the killers out? Is there any other option? The Arabs are simply not gonna be happy until they drive the Jews into the sea. They've said so.
I'm not saying don't respond. I'm saying don't respond with violence.

Ahmadinejad does not consitute as a representative of Arabs.
 

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vergiss said:
It was designed as a Jewish homeland. What's the freaking point of the UN giving it to the Jews in the first place, then?
The UN should not have partitioned and segregated the peoples. There was no point. There was no good outcome.

Israel tried to unite, and the Palestinians threw a hissy fit and wanted Gaza and the West Bank. Now their leaders say they want all of Israel back. It's important we share with the peaceful Palestinians, but the radicals won't accept anything less than a Muslim country. They're not going to just quieten down and move on with life if it becomes a secular state.
When the Palestinians suffer the consequences of "the radicals" the will for a Muslim country spreads through them.

I understand there will not be peace immediately, but every time a terrorist detonates a bomb he would be attacking Muslims and Jews. When someone attacks Israel it is so simple to paint it as an attack on zionism. When someone attacks the result of my proposal, you could not so simply paint it as such. It would be an attack on all peoples as well as an attack on the will for peace. I believe it would have the same effect as the recent attacks in Jordan.

Why should we have to give up our one and only country to make a bunch of terrorists happy, anyway? Yeah, giving in is a good thing. :roll:
My aim is not to make terrorists happy. My aim is unity between Palestinians and Israelis in order to create one identity and peace within it.
 

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I'm not saying don't respond. I'm saying don't respond with violence.
They blow up your kids and you say don't respond with violence? Yea, you're not saying sing Cumbaya, excuse me. Bullshit Gandhi, that's exactly what you are saying. Some people you just have to shoot in the head. Don't worry, there are people that are willing to do what needs to be done. It's not like they are asking you to squeeze the trigger.

Multiple times the Jews have not responded. Only to be attacked again. They've tried that. Didn't work.
 
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