• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why do you Smoke?

MarineTpartier said:
No, I read the thread. Your post is so abbreviated it makes no sense. From what I gather, you needed cigarettes to cope with your situation in life because you couldn't afford proper meds. Dealing with your situation in life by smoking cigarettes sounds social to me. No?
Click to expand...

Eh, not exactly, but close enough.

How is it social? I don't even like smoking around other people, never have. Nor did anyone else influence that decision. That makes absolutely no sense.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Eh, not exactly, but close enough.

How is it social? I don't even like smoking around other people, never have. Nor did anyone else influence that decision. That makes absolutely no sense.
Click to expand...

Like I said, your post is so abbreviated I can't even put together a complete retort to it. However, I am guessing you had some sort of circumstances or mental issue in your life that drove you to seek medication. Very few circumstances or mental issues are things that are not dependent upon outside stimulation by other people or situations created by people to initiate them. Therefore, its a social issue.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Like I said, your post is so abbreviated I can't even put together a complete retort to it. However, I am guessing you had some sort of circumstances or mental issue in your life that drove you to seek medication. Very few circumstances or mental issues are things that are not dependent upon outside stimulation by other people or situations created by people to initiate them. Therefore, its a social issue.
Click to expand...

That's true of virtually everything. We exist around other humans. So, you're expanding the definition of "social influence" to include "everything," making your statement unfalsifiable, despite the fact that it rests on a ridiculous definition of the word "social." Ultimately, that makes your statement completely meaningless.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
That's true of virtually everything. We exist around other humans. So, you're expanding the definition of "social influence" to include "everything," making your statement unfalsifiable, despite the fact that it rests on a ridiculous definition of the word "social." Ultimately, that makes your statement completely meaningless.
Click to expand...

Again, no poster on this thread can refute you because we have no idea the circumstances that were so unmanageable that they "forced" you to smoke. Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify slowly killing yourself though. Its your body, do what you want. However, I would wager that if you couldn't afford the meds you needed to begin with, you still can't. So later, when your body is all broken down and your lungs cancerous, I'm betting you'll come looking for tax payer health care to take care of you. Thanks in advance.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Again, no poster on this thread can refute you because we have no idea the circumstances that were so unmanageable that they "forced" you to smoke. Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify slowly killing yourself though. Its your body, do what you want. However, I would wager that if you couldn't afford the meds you needed to begin with, you still can't. So later, when your body is all broken down and your lungs cancerous, I'm betting you'll come looking for tax payer health care to take care of you. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep jumping to meds, or cross-applying a situation from almost 4 years ago to now? It's not really necessary for you to make assertions about my situation then or now, which happen to also be incorrect. It is only necessary for you to address the motivator, which is plenty clear enough from my posts, despite its brevity.

What is there to refute? Your definition is ridiculous and false, and designed with the explicit purpose of making yourself right in all scenarios. You don't really care what is true or real. You care about constructing whatever strawmen you need to in order to convince yourself that you're right, that the world is black-and-white, and that everyone thinks like you. You always debate that way.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you are so lacking in the ability to even comprehend things that don't fit into your world view even in cases where you yourself don't. Your lack of ability to critically observe yourself and your own arguments is just so stark that it never fails to surprise me.
 
Wake said:
I always wondered why exactly people smoked cigarettes.

Why do you smoke cigarettes? Over time it'll probably kill you.

And before that, it stains your teeth and skin, you skin absorbs the stench of the smoke, you eventually develop a phlegm and a raspy voice, etc.

Oh, and over time it costs much $$$.

Why not avoid it altogether, and maybe put that money into the bank, where you can then use it during the years you haven't lost from otherwise smoking?
Click to expand...

People smoke for the same reasons they do other things that they enjoy. Some people drink, some people eat too much, some people sleep around. Some people are gossips, others are assholes. Some people enjoy their hobbies, and the list of likes could go on forever.

This is the way I look at it:
Eat right, don't smoke, don't drink, don't do anything which would be considered harmful, dangerous, or bad. In the end, you die anyway. You can live life the way you like it, and die having enjoyed your life. You can live life always doing the "right" thing, and you will die anyway, but you may have lived a life in envy of those who had a good time. I personally think that moderation in everything is a pretty sound standard for living a life. Stay away from the extremes, as extremes cause stress. Stress kills. :)

Do what you want, try to avoid causing harm to others, try to maintain a clear conscience, and you won't have any regrets. :)
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Why do you keep jumping to meds, or cross-applying a situation from almost 4 years ago to now? It's not really necessary for you to make assertions about my situation then or now, which happen to also be incorrect. It is only necessary for you to address the motivator, which is plenty clear enough from my posts, despite its brevity.
Click to expand...
Like I've said a few times already, your vague description of why you smoke is the crux of our entire debate. If you had been clear about yourself and your reasons, I could better understand. However, you choose to remain vague because it assists you in proving me wrong. My claim is that social issues are what drive people to smoke. Your claim is they don't. However, you provide no proof as to why I'm wrong other than you just think I am.
SmokeAndMirrors said:
What is there to refute? Your definition is ridiculous and false, and designed with the explicit purpose of making yourself right in all scenarios. You don't really care what is true or real. You care about constructing whatever strawmen you need to in order to convince yourself that you're right, that the world is black-and-white, and that everyone thinks like you. You always debate that way.
Click to expand...
so·cial/ˈsōSHəl/Adjective: Of or relating to society or its organization. Apparently Webster thinks like me too. Can't say as I've ever debated you but most, not all, but most situations can be boiled down to black and white. In this case, I believe its either you smoke due to social pressures or you don't. Nothing strawman about that. Again, prove me wrong and I'll shut up. Show me an instance where someone would start smoking for anything other than social reasons.
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you are so lacking in the ability to even comprehend things that don't fit into your world view even in cases where you yourself don't. Your lack of ability to critically observe yourself and your own arguments is just so stark that it never fails to surprise me.
Click to expand...
I've learned in my short time on this website that devolving into personal attacks is usually an indicator of someone who has been proven wrong or has no way of proving themselves right. I await more info before judging which one you are.
 
I used to smoke some and then quit. I loved cigars and some cigarettes. My first smoking experience was when I was about 17, my younger brother actually gave me my first cigarette. When I was 18 one of my good friends treated me to a cigar on my birthday, and I smoked like 5 in one night. I absolutely loved the flavor of cigars (and still do). Doing cancer research and learning how carcinogens work caused me to quit though, compounded with the fact that I'm an asthmatic. I'm not opposed to smoking a cigar on a special occasion, it's also a good stress reliever for me. Basically, I started smoking because I enjoyed it, and I quit over health concerns.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Like I've said a few times already, your vague description of why you smoke is the crux of our entire debate. If you had been clear about yourself and your reasons, I could better understand. However, you choose to remain vague because it assists you in proving me wrong. My claim is that social issues are what drive people to smoke. Your claim is they don't. However, you provide no proof as to why I'm wrong other than you just think I am.

so·cial/ˈsōSHəl/Adjective: Of or relating to society or its organization. Apparently Webster thinks like me too. Can't say as I've ever debated you but most, not all, but most situations can be boiled down to black and white. In this case, I believe its either you smoke due to social pressures or you don't. Nothing strawman about that. Again, prove me wrong and I'll shut up. Show me an instance where someone would start smoking for anything other than social reasons.

I've learned in my short time on this website that devolving into personal attacks is usually an indicator of someone who has been proven wrong or has no way of proving themselves right. I await more info before judging which one you are.
Click to expand...

Once again, I don't understand why the particulars, or the outcome, or any of that other stuff that has nothing to with the decision, matters. You are confounding the point with irrelevant side issues.

I can't "prove" to you that I'm telling the truth one way or the other anyway. And no amount of irrelevant details will change that, or change your opinion. Everything that matters has already been provided to you. Namely: It was a decision I made in a solitary fashion for reasons not related to my relationship with others, or society. That is the only detail that is in any way relevant.

And by the by, my claim was not that social pressure doesn't cause people to start smoking. My claim was that it is not the only reason people start smoking.

What matters is that it was a decision made without the input of any other human being, or for reasons directly related to any other human being. If you're going to say that ultimately something along the chain of events leading up to that decision involved human beings in some capacity and therefore the decision was socially motivated, then your statement is MEANINGLESS because EVERYTHING would therefore be caused by social factors unless you have gone your entire life without ever meeting another human being.

EX: By your reasoning...
I chose to be a writer for social reasons, because at some point someone taught me how to read and write. This is ridiculous because almost everyone in this country can read and write, and yet most are not writers. You would be correct if someone had pushed me towards being a writer. But no one did.
I like sushi because at some point I met someone who served or was eating sushi. This is ridiculous because most people have the opportunity to eat sushi, yet many of them haven't, or don't like it. You would be correct if someone had pushed me to eat sushi. But no one did.

At that point, your argument means nothing. If everything is caused by social factors (which by your reasoning it must be) then choosing to smoke is absolutely no different than choosing to do anything else - including not smoke, or quit.

It's an attack on your consistently poor use of reason, which is well within the purview of good debate style.
 
Last edited:
MarineTpartier said:
I know smokers know its harmful. I also know that smokers are weak minded. I used to be one of those weak minded individuals. I would like to hear someone name a reason, other than social, that led to them smoking their first cigarette.
Click to expand...

wtf??? Weak minded? LOL! Pffffffffffffffffft
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Once again, I don't understand why the particulars, or the outcome, or any of that other stuff that has nothing to with the decision, matters. You are confounding the point with irrelevant side issues.

I can't "prove" to you that I'm telling the truth one way or the other anyway. And no amount of irrelevant details will change that, or change your opinion. Everything that matters has already been provided to you. Namely: It was a decision I made in a solitary fashion for reasons not related to my relationship with others, or society. That is the only detail that is in any way relevant.

And by the by, my claim was not that social pressure doesn't cause people to start smoking. My claim was that it is not the only reason people start smoking.

What matters is that it was a decision made without the input of any other human being, or for reasons directly related to any other human being. If you're going to say that ultimately something along the chain of events leading up to that decision involved human beings in some capacity and therefore the decision was socially motivated, then your statement is MEANINGLESS because EVERYTHING would therefore be caused by social factors unless you have gone your entire life without ever meeting another human being.

EX: By your reasoning...
I chose to be a writer for social reasons, because at some point someone taught me how to read and write. This is ridiculous because almost everyone in this country can read and write, and yet most are not writers. You would be correct if someone had pushed me towards being a writer. But no one did.
I like sushi because at some point I met someone who served or was eating sushi. This is ridiculous because most people have the opportunity to eat sushi, yet many of them haven't, or don't like it. You would be correct if someone had pushed me to eat sushi. But no one did.

At that point, your argument means nothing. If everything is caused by social factors (which by your reasoning it must be) then choosing to smoke is absolutely no different than choosing to do anything else - including not smoke, or quit.

It's an attack on your consistently poor use of reason, which is well within the purview of good debate style.
Click to expand...

Until you are willing to share the full story of the situation that drove you to smoke in a solitary fashion, this is a futile debate that will continue to center on your definition of social to mine. Simply saying, "I chose to smoke in a solitary fashion" does not fully explain your stance nor allow me the opportunity to debate you fully. You're right, I can't reason for the life of me someone that is sitting in room by themselves, with issues so big they need medication, going to the store and thinking to themselves "What would really solve this solitary problem I have is a good cigarette. After all, it has the same contents and/or effects that the medication I need does but for a fraction of the cost." Call me close minded if you like. You can say I don't have reason. I'm not the one justifying killing myself.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Until you are willing to share the full story of the situation that drove you to smoke in a solitary fashion, this is a futile debate that will continue to center on your definition of social to mine. Simply saying, "I chose to smoke in a solitary fashion" does not fully explain your stance nor allow me the opportunity to debate you fully. You're right, I can't reason for the life of me someone that is sitting in room by themselves, with issues so big they need medication, going to the store and thinking to themselves "What would really solve this solitary problem I have is a good cigarette. After all, it has the same contents and/or effects that the medication I need does but for a fraction of the cost." Call me close minded if you like. You can say I don't have reason. I'm not the one justifying killing myself.
Click to expand...

*sigh* and again with the filling in irrelevant blanks with whatever assumption you think is most damaging, which is why I don't make a habit of wasting the time on people who aren't worth it. You've failed to explain to me how telling you irrelevant and time-consuming details changes the ultimately self-focused nature of a decision, or how your insane definition of "social influence" leaves anything at all outside its parameters. That's because it doesn't. In other words, there is no possible scenario in which you would not consider yourself right, because you've set the parameters in such a way as to be unfalsifiable, even if they happen to be ludicrous. You just want ammo.
 
Last edited:
marduc said:
I smoked (past tense after many attempts to stop) for one simple reason. I was too young to know any better when I started. At 13-14 years old you are invincible and do not have the ability to analyze risks and long term ramifications. This was early 80's there really was no substantial barriers to keep kids from buying cigs. although technically it was illegal to do so. Now a store clerk who looks the other way or a cigarette machine readily accessed in public are not so easy to come by.
Click to expand...

This sounds like myself, I also started when I was 13-14 and the health risks involved were just becoming well known mainstream and honestly being a teenager I just didnt care.


@ Wake

Once you have made the mistake of starting it is very difficult for some such as myself to quit. Addicts are true slaves to their addictions and their minds will do anything to convince them it is ok to continue the habit. All reasonable thought goes right out the window when withdraws begin. A couple of months ago while making small talk with my dentist the subject of smoking came up. She made the comment that she just could not understand how people could continue to smoke knowing full well the health risks involved. Obviously she did not understand addiction and what it does to a persons mind. I tried to explain to her the difficulty one faces with addiction and the closest comparison I could think was this:

Think of yourself in a swimming pool, you submerge yourself in an attempt to hold your breath for as long as you possibly can, just when your lungs are about to burst and you begin your frantic struggle to the surface a hand reaches into the water and holds you down and then a voice (of reason) tells you "You do not really need a breath it is all an illusion, your body is just telling you that you need it but you really don't". How would your mind react? Would you stop and think about it or would you fight tooth and nail to get to that breath of fresh air regardless of what you have been told? I can surmise that most people would fight for what their mind/body is so desperately telling them that they need and any other reasoning is brushed aside. That is how I feel when withdraws begin.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
*sigh* and again with the filling in irrelevant blanks with whatever assumption you think is most damaging, which is why I don't make a habit of wasting the time on people who aren't worth it. You've failed to explain to me how telling you irrelevant and time-consuming details changes the ultimately self-focused nature of a decision, or how your insane definition of "social influence" leaves anything at all outside its parameters. That's because it doesn't. In other words, there is no possible scenario in which you would not consider yourself right, because you've set the parameters in such a way as to be unfalsifiable, even if they happen to be ludicrous. You just want ammo.
Click to expand...

I don't believe I'm filling the blanks you're leaving with anything damaging. I'm just filling those blanks with what little you've shared about those blanks. I'm not trying to demonize you, belittle you, or make you look like a lesser person in any way. I'm merely trying to prove my point with what little info you have shared. I don't want ammo. I want disclosure. The original debate was show me a reason that someone would begin smoking that isn't socially influenced. You have failed to do that, though you did attempt with a vague story about solitary medicinal needs. Further info would settle the debate. In my opinion, you aren't sharing more because you know that by doing that, you will be wrong.
 
Baralis said:
@ Wake

Once you have made the mistake of starting it is very difficult for some such as myself to quit. Addicts are true slaves to their addictions and their minds will do anything to convince them it is ok to continue the habit. All reasonable thought goes right out the window when withdraws begin. A couple of months ago while making small talk with my dentist the subject of smoking came up. She made the comment that she just could not understand how people could continue to smoke knowing full well the health risks involved. Obviously she did not understand addiction and what it does to a persons mind. I tried to explain to her the difficulty one faces with addiction and the closest comparison I could think was this:

Think of yourself in a swimming pool, you submerge yourself in an attempt to hold your breath for as long as you possibly can, just when your lungs are about to burst and you begin your frantic struggle to the surface a hand reaches into the water and holds you down and then a voice (of reason) tells you "You do not really need a breath it is all an illusion, your body is just telling you that you need it but you really don't". How would your mind react? Would you stop and think about it or would you fight tooth and nail to get to that breath of fresh air regardless of what you have been told? I can surmise that most people would fight for what their mind/body is so desperately telling them that they need and any other reasoning is brushed aside. That is how I feel when withdraws begin.
Click to expand...

Great post man. Fits what it feels like to quit to the T. Its a hard struggle but not impossible. Keep trying.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I don't know if you've smoked but I remember the fist time I did it. It was not enjoyable at all. It's pure social environment that makes people smoke IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes, but at a certain point you lose the social aspect and it becomes a personal addiction. I smoke around other smokers and I smoke when I'm alone. At this point, social factors are a minimal influence.
 
Some dizzy broad told me I need to quit smoking when she walked past me smoking on the street. I told her she needs to lose some weight.

That shut her up.
 
RadicalModerate said:
Yes, but at a certain point you lose the social aspect and it becomes a personal addiction. I smoke around other smokers and I smoke when I'm alone. At this point, social factors are a minimal influence.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My point was that no one STARTS smoking for reasons other than social pressure. Once it's got you, yeah, its personal all day. You're addicted and you can't stop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom