- Joined
- Jul 12, 2010
- Messages
- 3,715
- Reaction score
- 751
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
How can any rational human being come to think that FDR had a great idea when he proposed his second bill of rights? How is housing a universal right? How is healthcare a universal right? Why do people continue to believe that scarce resources, and the labor of others, is a right guaranteed to them by some higher power?
The first rule of economics is scarcity. There is never enough resources to satisfy the needs and wants of all people. The first rule of politics is to disregard the first rule of economics.
what makes you think many liberals think they're human rights?
I think that housing is a universal right because I need a place to store all my guns, and health care is a universal right because I'll need medicine to keep me alive longer so I can shoot more living creatures for fun.
what makes you think many liberals think they're human rights?
It seems we're starting with an unproven or even support premise.
I think FDR's freedom speech wasn't advocating that the government should provide all those freedoms, for example freedom from want and freedom from fear are so intangible it would be impossible for any organization or government to totally remove them from the world. I think it was rather meant to be inspirational and perhaps through that inspirational provide a hope for the future which may reduce want and fear but at the very least make people feel better about the future.
I thought you would be happy to call FDR the father of the "wonderful" second bill of rights; these "rights" mimic several of the articles from the Universal Declaration on HUMAN RIGHTS.
what makes you think many liberals think they're human rights?
It seems we're starting with an unproven or even support premise.
Just wait for him to start twisting out of it. The entertainment value alone from his dismissals will be epic.Housing:
Housing is a Human Right
Right to housing
Housing as a Human Right (Gotham Gazette, Nov 2007)
PDHRE: Housing
'Housing Is a Human Right' Documents Struggle For Home
NESRI: National Economic & Social Rights Initiative
Housing as a human right
Bill Quigley: Housing as a Human Right
Housing Is a Human Right | End Homelessness | Change.org
NLCHP.org
Housing is a human right!
Housing is a Human Right: Stories from the Struggle for Home | GFEM - Media Database
Special Rapporteur on adequate housing as a component of the right to an adequate standard of living, and on the right to non-discrimination in this context
HIC - Respect housing as a human right warns Ontario Municipal Board as it strikes down restrictive Kitchener planning rules
Ontario Human Rights Commission
Housing is a Human Right | Facebook
Adequate Housing is a Basic Human Right That Takes a Back Seat to Corporate Profits | BuzzFlash.org
Health Care:
Health Care as a Human Right
Health Care is a Human Right
Healthcare Is a Human Right Campaign | Vermont Workers' Center
Healthcare is a Human Right
Health Care as a Human Right - Campus Progress
Health care as a human right | PRI.ORG
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/12/health-care-is-a-human-right/
Helen Redmond: Health Care as a Human Right
Health Care as Human Rights
Health care as a human right » peoplesworld
Health Care is a Human Right - Valerie Elverton Dixon - God's Politics Blog
Healthcare is a Human Right NM
I mean, come on. Those are just the links I copied before I got bored with it. Hundreds, hundreds more.
See now if you knew what you were talking about you'd realize the UDHR was written not only after FDR's speech but also after his death... so... I think accusing him of mimicing the UDHR is a rediculous.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
The DoI implies that certain rights exist as a natural consequence of human nature and culture (or Creator, if that is the part of human culture you wish to credit).
The meaning is clear: whether the powers that be agree or not, men have certain freedoms. If the PTB do not agree, it is the responsibility of the governed to establish a government that does recognize those rights. The rights recognized will be established by those that institute the government - the ones that want the rights to be recognized. Or, We The People.
So...if a critical mass of the population in America decides that housing and health care are basic rights, then they are. Just as the English people rose up and claimed their right to free speech 331 years ago, Americans at some point in the future may rise up to claim what they see to be their right to affordable adequate medical care.
Also, be careful when you talk about material possessions as rights that you aren't confusing them with the concepts that those possessions represent. Take housing, for example. The right to housing isn't necessarily a right to possess a house or own a building. It means much more than that. It symbolizes a right to safety, security, roots, heritage, a sense of self and of self-worth. Taken as an aggregate, a sense of community and of belonging. Not really materialistic, wouldn't you say?
Housing:
Housing is a Human Right
Right to housing
Housing as a Human Right (Gotham Gazette, Nov 2007)
PDHRE: Housing
'Housing Is a Human Right' Documents Struggle For Home
NESRI: National Economic & Social Rights Initiative
Housing as a human right
Bill Quigley: Housing as a Human Right
Housing Is a Human Right | End Homelessness | Change.org
NLCHP.org
Housing is a human right!
Housing is a Human Right: Stories from the Struggle for Home | GFEM - Media Database
Special Rapporteur on adequate housing as a component of the right to an adequate standard of living, and on the right to non-discrimination in this context
HIC - Respect housing as a human right warns Ontario Municipal Board as it strikes down restrictive Kitchener planning rules
Ontario Human Rights Commission
Housing is a Human Right | Facebook
Adequate Housing is a Basic Human Right That Takes a Back Seat to Corporate Profits | BuzzFlash.org
Health Care:
Health Care as a Human Right
Health Care is a Human Right
Healthcare Is a Human Right Campaign | Vermont Workers' Center
Healthcare is a Human Right
Health Care as a Human Right - Campus Progress
Health care as a human right | PRI.ORG
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/12/health-care-is-a-human-right/
Helen Redmond: Health Care as a Human Right
Health Care as Human Rights
Health care as a human right » peoplesworld
Health Care is a Human Right - Valerie Elverton Dixon - God's Politics Blog
Healthcare is a Human Right NM
I mean, come on. Those are just the links I copied before I got bored with it. Hundreds, hundreds more.
Interesting. I didn't click on all of them, but most i did click on were from the UN.
The point is, nothing you link actually polls liberals at all, let alone the views of anyone who might debate here. I don't see a real issue in this and think it is more a sterotype than anything else. Yes, people want to help the homeless. People want to tackle healthcare and see more people with minimal care. And yes, people would like to help more people suffer less. But that's a far cry from arguing that a diverse group all see material things as a right.
what makes you think many liberals think they're human rights?
Now-a-days, if you have the right to something, the argument from the left is that the government must then provide it to you, thru means forcibly acquired from others, should you not have the means to provide it for yourself.I think FDR's freedom speech wasn't advocating that the government should provide all those freedoms, for example freedom from want and freedom from fear are so intangible it would be impossible for any organization or government to totally remove them from the world. I think it was rather meant to be inspirational and perhaps through that inspirational provide a hope for the future which may reduce want and fear but at the very least make people feel better about the future.
Anyone who wants to click on the links will come to the conclusion that you clicked on, like, three links if that's all you saw.
No, you're right. No one at any of those organizations calling these things "human rights" could possibly be liberals.
You are are arguing just to argue. But it IS entertaining.
And I couldn't possibly care less what you want to say about Republicans. I really couldn't.
Well, there is an entertainment element for all of this, but I never said "no" liberals ever believe anything just as it can't be said thet "no" conservative is a racist. The point is that the number has to be high enough to matter. This requires a poll of some sort, doesn't it? Don't we need to know how many? That would be answering it, and not an internet list, which I think I showed can be found on any silliness.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?